pg4Him

Please understand me, I do not advocate for treating women poorly. I don’t subscribe to any crude humanish interpretations of how to domineer over a woman. That sort of things results from carnal men failing to read through spiritual eyes. It is actually possible to uphold every word of Scripture while increasing a woman’s dignity. With no contradiction, Paul’s words on women lead us into deeper mutual servanthood and responsibility. Statements in Scripture are not relics from a bygone culture, but clues that lead us toward a mystery far above our 3 dimensional thinking. The Lord means every word of His word, and it’s a race toward a kingdom we can scarce imagine. To dismiss these clues as useless relics is a crime. I’m frustrated as I watch the ‘unsearchable riches of Christ’ reduced to a 21st century lifestyle manual. Forgive me for raging.

People don’t go to church to learn His design. They accept the parts that align with their pre-conceived cultural biases. Paul said what about women? Nah, that doesn’t apply to me... but let’s talk about his brilliance in the love chapter.

Sorry bro, but talk like that will get you attacked by half the Christians in this nation. Churches are making a nice little profit selling daycare to single divorced mothers. They will NOT rock that boat. The Christian music industry knows that suburban women are the dominant consumer, so no songs on Christian radio with controversial doctrine. You know how much money women spend on products that come out of Elevation Church? You know how many female subscribers Steven Furtick has? Shut your mouth with that talk of a healthy Christian household.

We take bits and pieces of the Bible that don’t upset our cultural paradigm, and we build our theology around them.

What would really be amazing would be to see more American Christians ‘come out of her my people.’ Yank those kids out of public school, cut that cable cord, toss out the NFL tee shirts, and leave social media to be the sewer it really is. Oh no, we can’t do that, because we desperately need the gays and millennials to hear our side of the story. This strategy hasn’t been working for us at all as we continue to lose our country, but no no, this is a great investment of our time. Fox News makes money from the ratings, Facebook makes a fortune from our laughable ‘evangelizing’ efforts, and we all watch another year tick by as things go from bad to worse. We’re locked in a system, folks, and we’re playing the game they want us to play. They WANT conservatives to spin their wheels on social media debates. As long as the children are still in public school and Netflix is making a profit on its godless content, we can complain about society on Facebook all we like. All bark and no bite. That’s an American Christin for you.

When we pray for God to give us the desires of our heart, what do we really desire? Do you desire a woman you can spend your life protecting, leading, guarding, and providing for? That’s what Christian marriage is. Do you desire a woman who can meet your needs, make you happy, and end your depression? That isn’t Christian marriage, and it isn’t a healthy relationship by any standard. Brother, the lesson to learn here is that the Lord gave you a taste of what relationships are like. Even if He sent you a perfect woman tomorrow, you are not emotionally ready to be the man in a relationship. It is not your wife/girlfriend’s job to fix your depression. It isn’t. I have watched too many people make this mistake. They rush into marriage because they think it will make them happy. After the honeymoon is over, life returns to normal. They are anxious, depressed, fretful, and isolated, even as a spouse lays next to them in bed. Marriages end because of this. They do. If you really want a marriage, you need to focus on your relationship with God. Accept where you are, accept what God has given you this moment, and let His grace be your healing. Find your joy in Him.

Oh brother I was not trying to personally assign that belief to you. I was speaking rhetorically on the dangers in this topic. 4 of our Christian brethren were shot to death because of their faith... and within a handful of comments here, they were judged as unworthy of our respect. We ought to be the ones asking if we deserve their respect. Underground Christians in other nations are seeing revivals, miracles, and conversions the likes of which we in America have lost.

We have plenty of historical examples to answer this for us. The early church in the Roman empire, the Protestants leaving Catholicism, Christian resistance to the Nazis and Soviets... we should follow the example have from the apostles. Hide, go underground, keep things a secret, evacuate our children to a safer place if needed... but don’t shed blood. This is what the underground church is doing right now in China, Iran, and elsewhere. Stay in the shadow of that hidden place, but be prepared for death if the Lord allows them to catch you. Otherwise, we would all have to surmise that our Christian brethren in China and Iran are a bunch of cowards for hiding underground. Watchman Nee was a coward. Deitrich Bonhoeffer was a coward. Corrie ten Boom was a coward. Are you prepared to go down that road?

If the laws of the land demand a soldier to go and fight, he should obey his masters. The soldiers in the Old Testament were fighting for their nation in physical wars against other governments. The apostles never condemned anyone for being a soldier or police officer. Jesus clearly blessed Roman military leaders who came to Him for healing. Our question at hand on this thread is whether Christians should use violence to prevent persecution. When faced with a spiritual attack against us for the sake of Christ, shall we kill people for it? The New Testament tells us over and over to endure persecution. Prison, beatings, stonings, you name it. The early church endured these things as a witness of their love for Christ. It’s much easier say you love the Lord as long as you have a gun to make sure no one hurts you for it. Quite a different story when your faith can get you killed.

I see what’s happening on this thread. There’s no desire for an objective look at Scripture. There’s a desire to find some kind of way to support violent resistance. I won’t waste any more of my time here.

As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word. — ‭Acts‬ ‭8:3-4‬ Saul/Paul broke into people’s houses to arrest them for being Christian. He was successful. No one used violence to stop him.

Scripture is given to us for instruction and direction. I can’t do whatever I want to do just because I’m not as good as Paul. You know better than that. You know you would oppose this logic if a man cheated on his wife because he’s no apostle Paul. I’m looking at Scripture to see what have to work with on this topic. Aside from one vague comment about buying a sword, do you have anything else to hang your hat on?

Now let’s see what Jesus said to the church of Smyrna: Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. — ‭Revelation‬ ‭2:10‬ He told them ahead of time they would be arrested, tried, and executed... no call for armed rebellion to stop it.

I’m sorry, but the basket story was Paul. Shall we look at more examples? And when there was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and also of the Jews with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone them, They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about — ‭Acts‬ ‭14:5-6‬ And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead. Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe. —‭Acts‬ ‭14:19-20‬

The apostles escaped from prison in such a way that no one was hurt. And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison. But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said, Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life. — ‭Acts‬ ‭5:18-20‬ Paul saved the lives of his enemies and captors when their lives were in peril. He did this with the jailor whom Frienduff mentioned earlier, and he also did it during the shipwreck in Acts 27. We have no example in Scripture of a Christian being violent. Not for defense, protection, or stopping an enemy. The apostles spent so much time in prison because there was no violence resistance.

You can protect yourself by running away. You can hide. You can escape. But no violence. And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him: But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket. — Acts‬ ‭9:23-25‬ And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong. But he passing through the midst of them went his way — ‭Luke‬ ‭4:28-30‬

China has a state-approved Christian church. It’s notorious for being watered down and fearful to offend the government. It’s kinda their version of the seeker-friendly movement. Keep in mind @angels4u you are asking her to locate a secret group of people who will go to jail if they tell the wrong person. Easier said than done.

Do you think I hate Christians outside the US?

Interesting. As I see it, Satan’s best assets are the disciplined, productive vessels he can use to deceive people and make inroads through the church. These people are loving, humble, committed, spiritual... and working diligently to evangelize people away from the light. It isn’t much of a war unless both kingdoms have brave soldiers. Lazy people on either side are kind of dead weight.

I agree that @Nadjeschda is angrily casting aspersions on a culture she doesn’t understand. It is difficult to explain the American mindset to outsiders. Americans are actually quite generous, caring, and expressive, but we’re locked in a system.

Nadjeschda I am one of the very few people who came on this thread to help you, and you don’t seem appreciative. You assume I will find an excuse to reject African Christians. I agree with you that we need to be helping them. There should be no human barriers in the body of Christ. A Christian in Tanzania should feel loved and valued by the Christian body in California. We should be helping them so they don’t need help from secular governments. However, you will find in America a large section of Christians who are American first and Christian second. It is impossible to separate their Americanism from their faith. This stems from a belief that America is some sort of special chosen nation with a Christian destiny. All things American are presumed to be Christian, or at least compatible with a Christian walk. This is why we maintain an immigrant class (many who are Christian brethren) and pay them pennies to pick our lettuce. American first, Christian second. I agree with you about all of this. Don’t yell at me for it. I am only here to say that secular charity might please atheists yet is it isn’t the solution.

Honestly, if we follow the Bible — what many don’t want to hear — is that our first priority should be helping other Christians. The apostles made sure that all widows and orphans in the faith were taken care of. We should be fair/respectful to unbelievers, but it isn’t our job to financially provide for them. When — and only when — the widows and orphans in the faith are well fed should we focus on outsiders. There’s nothing in Scripture that tells us to use charity for evangelism. We really have two separate problems. One is whether we are fair/just in our business dealings with unbelievers. We should be blameless in our business. We should pay fair wages, pay our bills on time, and never cheat or rob anyone. Charity, however, should mostly stay within the church. American Christians are certainly willing to allow a corporation to pay slave wages on their behalf. I agree with you that this is a problem. Some Americans purchase fair-trade products to try to pay living wages in their business dealings, but not many. I do believe this brings a reproach on the church. Christian brethren toil in the sun for pennies an hour to pick our lettuce, and yet we claim we are in the same body. This is wrong. Some of us try to do our part to make better purchases.

The atomic bombs killed about 250,000 people combined. That’s the same number of people who died on Okinawa. A million-plus died at Stalingrad. If not for those atomic bombs, more than a million would have died for Japan.

I would agree... and this means people are dying in their sins every day.... sins that go unrepented and unforgiven because they reject the cross....

OK sister I will let it go.