Bible_Gazer

There is some people who are going to rule the rod of Iron Revelation 2:26-27 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

I also think its the church. Rev. 19 Jesus is on a white horse. I think this white horse started at the beginning from Pentecost. The apostles went conquering people hearts with truth and peace. Then the Red horse is as Paul mention about in Acts 20 grievous wolves would scatter the flock, - they started to take peace from the earth with a sword(false doctrines, wrong spirit). I know most think its somewhere in the future. I think the first seal was opened in John's I am not preterist.

parts of persecution - could be from the LGBT groups and their backups - against diehard believing Christians

But if the lake of fire is supposed to be Hell, wouldn't that make Hades a different place? I think they are of two different meaning. Some are resurrected as it says from the = dead - sea - hell if people are alive in hell are they not alive in the other two places ? (if nobody ever dies) It seem that there is a groups of people that are called death - sea - hell - because that is how they died in those places or condition. Then those who are judged at that time as it reads in vs15 - not all but some of the death and hell people are destroyed eternally. Some of this seem to be allegory here.

Looks like somebody in the 2nd resurrection gets saved in v15 ? Seem like not everybody that come back from the dead came from the same place. Death and Hell and Sea Hell is not eternal death but the lake of Fire is.

Eyes of your understanding of things pertaining to God is good, it is you light. Do you see what I mean ?

So is this future ? The Devil is going to get kick out of heaven, be here onto the earth and go after the Woman(Israel??) and cause her to go into the wilderness ? So is the Devil allowed to go to heaven now in and out ? or When did he really get kicked out of Heaven ?

Paul did talked about a falling away of the church before Jesus comes back. 2Thess.2 So does that mean there would be a reformation or restoration of the church ?

1 Chronicles 21:16King James Version (KJV) 16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the Lord stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. The woman is the church The man child is Jesus The remnant of her seed is the saints Ok you helped me there on the sword. I should have remembered that. But are they good against another Angel ? So do you think there was a blood bath in Heaven above with the Angels ? Was Michael and his Angels defending Mary up there ? Revelation 12 is past future and present and it is not Mary Do you have a sword to fight against evil angels ? My sword would be the words of God with the Holy Spirit. I also agree Rev.12 is past present future To make Israel disappear(wilderness) in the future I do not see that. They are there to stay this time. They will take a beating before that nation will accept Jesus.

No, you do not "get rid of the sin nature", you put it to death through the power of the Holy Spirit. (Mortify) Unfortunately this monstrosity is tied to us until Christ gives us our new glorious bodies. We as believers have two natures now. Our new nature is wholly good, and created in righteousness. It's a new creation and not a reformation of the old nature. It delights completely in God's will, and in reality it cannot and will not sin. It is our old nature that wars against our new nature that leads a believer to fall in sin. Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Gal 5:17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. Eph 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; Eph 4:23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; Eph 4:24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. 1Jn 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. So is the Holy Spirit in the same place as the sin nature is in (the flesh body) ?What part is born again to change you to the new man from the old man ? I think we create our own sin nature just like Adam and Eve did, they didn't have one. Its not long the child learn the sinful ways and commit their own because of weakness and desires and want to be its own boss.

Was or is the reformation biblical ? Any scriptures referring to it ?

Was the Reformation of man or was it of God ? [Reformation] A religious movement of the 16th century that began as an attempt to reform the Roman Catholic Church and resulted in the creation of Protestant churches. Is it over ?

1 Chronicles 21:16King James Version (KJV) 16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the Lord stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. The woman is the church The man child is Jesus The remnant of her seed is the saints Ok you helped me there on the sword. I should have remembered that. But are they good against another Angel ? So do you think there was a blood bath in Heaven above with the Angels ? Was Michael and his Angels defending Mary up there ?

Take the wording chapter 14 out and continue to read on about another group of people with a marking in there forehead. Now will there be a literal name imprinted Jesus on their forehead ? I don't think so. So we read about two groups with different character about them. They the enemy warns them if they don't take the mark they would be killed. Rev.13:15 In Chapter 14 you would die for taking the mark. Rev.14:9-11,19-20 I guess you get to choose how to die.

Hello kwik I agree it takes the holy spirit to change us, to create within us a new heart because we created a corrupt heart.

I think the man child represent the saints of the church as well as the remnant is also. Like the Bride represent many saints not just one wife. I think what this chapter is telling John in the early church and telling us is that the Devil is the enemy fighting against the church. The 13th chapter tells who the devil is using to fight against it. - Rome

I think you must keep them together as it says. The pregnant woman is in heaven. Just try this: If the woman is the church or Israel it must be here on Earth. We know Paul said something about 3rd heaven, so where is 1st and 2nd. If the woman is the church she would be 2nd heaven condition being a born again church. We read in Revelation 2 and 3 its seem the Devil been working on the saints. The Devil did fight against the early church with his Angels(religion and civil) and Michael and his angels(Apostles)fought. If the woman is Israel that would be here on Earth so it must be Israel as the heavenly place. The Red Dragon would be the Romans fighting against them. I don't think there was a literal war in 3rd heaven, Angels fighting with swords and spears or laser guns. The can't kill each other. I do think the woman represent the church. This is at the earlier stage of it. Having the 12 Apostles.(stars) Standing on the promises of the OT(moon is reflection of the Sun) The Sun is the NT church covering - Jesus. When the Dark Ages came, RCC came and suppresses any other belief it cause the church to go into the wilderness to be hid from the Devil for a period of a time. Paul warned the church would fall away. The reformation was it of God or Man ?

If you have a sin nature by birth Can you get rid of it ? can you change

Rom 7:18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. What version are you using ? But is does not say he was born with it. I think we create a sin nature, that I can agree with. That was from the NIV, but it is the same in all versions. "The flesh" is that old nature that sin springs from. We never created a sin nature. Sin was introduced to man by satan, and since then we have become worse and worse. Adam can only produce his kind. Only in Christ can the power of indwelling sin, or sin in the flesh be broken. Sin is so bad in man that the Law only incites it to do more evil. It's even called "sinful flesh" in scripture. The Body is not sinful, we know this because scripture calls it God's temple when one believes on Christ. "The flesh" is that nature of sin that we are born with. A natural inclination to rebel against God. Scripture says we were at one point, "By nature" the Children of wrath. The word for nature is Phusis. Meaning germination as in from a native disposition. So when Christ is introduced in two Christian couples they are now in Christ, will they produce a sinless nature baby ? Its says in 1Cor.7:14 that if one of the parents is saved the child is holy.

Good question, but I believe the time-frame is mentioned in verse 5 and 6 And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. Jesus is the man-child, after Jesus resurrection, Israel fled into the wilderness (into the nations). There Israel will find a place of protection for the 3.5 tribulation years during which the church will be persecuted. So it covers 2000 plus years. The remnant are us believers who are the offspring of Israel (adopted sons of Abraham) Romans 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. It is not 1260 days What isn't 1260 days? Are you referring to Rev 12 which mentions 1260 days and saying it shouldn't be interpreted as literal days? If so why not literal days? It is 1260 years A Time = 1 year Times = 2 years Dividing of Times = 1/2 year. 360 X 3yr =1080 180 or 1/2 year = 1260 Forty two months = 42 X 30 = 1260 Two hundred and threescore = 1260 This same power depicted as controlling religious affairs for 1260 years, will again arise. It's deadly wound healed. Together with the "power of the dragon" and "force of the second beast" the world will be brought to a crises. (See Rev. 13) Therefore it is imperative that we understand this issue. Izzel I agree with the 1,260 years so you are seeing then that Rev. 11, 12 and 13 most is already history. Also in your belief can you figure out the 3 1/2 days the two witnesses died and the one hour in Rev.17 ? So, here is a complete listing of the passages that deal with the same 1260 year time period of persecution note the 3 1/2 days is the same 1260 days etc 3 1/2 Times - Rev 12:14, Dan 7:25, Dan 12:71260 days - Rev 11:3, Rev 12:642 Months - Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5Are you saying the two witnesses laid dead for 1,260 years(3 1/2 days) that it is also the church in Rev.12 going into the wilderness for 1,260 years. They are the same ?

The woman is the church the war took place in heaven and that was the 3rd heaven where the devil sinned Why not keep it in the same heaven as the chapter is giving. Keep the woman in the same place.

The Apostle Paul said he had a "sinful nature". He said absolutely no good dwelled in this nature. Explain. Rom 7:18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. What version are you using ? But is does not say he was born with it. I think we create a sin nature, that I can agree with.

More questions for you all It seems you make Israel the woman and she should be here on Earth(in some kind of heavenly place?) The Red Dragon is here on Earth in the same heaven as the woman.(but cast down to Earth) Michael is here also fighting here on Earth in the same heaven as the woman and Dragon is in. If this is not on Earth then it would be in heaven then how can the woman(12 tribes of Israel) give birth in heaven and who is the Father ? Maybe we need to figure out which heaven is being used here. And keep all the same characters in the same place. I know some make it a war in heaven - if that is so - the woman(Israel) is up there also.

Good question, but I believe the time-frame is mentioned in verse 5 and 6 And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. Jesus is the man-child, after Jesus resurrection, Israel fled into the wilderness (into the nations). There Israel will find a place of protection for the 3.5 tribulation years during which the church will be persecuted. So it covers 2000 plus years. The remnant are us believers who are the offspring of Israel (adopted sons of Abraham) Romans 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. It is not 1260 days What isn't 1260 days? Are you referring to Rev 12 which mentions 1260 days and saying it shouldn't be interpreted as literal days? If so why not literal days? It is 1260 years A Time = 1 year Times = 2 years Dividing of Times = 1/2 year. 360 X 3yr =1080 180 or 1/2 year = 1260 Forty two months = 42 X 30 = 1260 Two hundred and threescore = 1260 This same power depicted as controlling religious affairs for 1260 years, will again arise. It's deadly wound healed. Together with the "power of the dragon" and "force of the second beast" the world will be brought to a crises. (See Rev. 13) Therefore it is imperative that we understand this issue. Izzel I agree with the 1,260 years so you are seeing then that Rev. 11, 12 and 13 most is already history. Also in your belief can you figure out the 3 1/2 days the two witnesses died and the one hour in Rev.17 ?

lose memory - lose experience - lose knowledge - understanding - lose reasoning - you lose character