BlessedByTheBest

if you will concede that: eonian suggests an indefinite duration. then i will concede that: eonian does not necessarily suggest unending.

not to backtrack, but i meant to address this and propose a question to you here. obviously and as we have agreed, when speaking of eternal things time is not a factor. your view seems true enough to me here from our temporal standpoint, but not an eternal one.. correct me if i am wrong, but it seems like you are equating God with eternity in some way.. God is not eternity. we can only speculate on a timeless existence, and i don't believe we should be assigning values to it as if it was somehow mysteriously linked to our relationship with God. we are given the gift of eternal life, but that eternal life is not God. God is eternal as he transcends time and space. Let me offer this quote from the heavendwellers website to describe that which I agree with: “We must be careful of how we define eternity. ETERNITY IS A STATE OF ABSOLUTE TIMELESSNESS, not of unending time. Eternity is a STATE OF BEING, resident in the very nature and person of God in which such concepts as past, present, future, before, after, change, transition, growth, decay, etc. do not exist. It is wrong to assert that, when time ends, eternity will begin, because eternity has no beginning.” Neither did it end when time began….Time is not part of eternity; eternity is not composed of segments of time. Eternity is not time standing still; it is simply not time at all. Eternity doesn't go on and on and on, ad infinitum. Eternity doesn't go anywhere, nor does it do anything. Eternity simply IS. Eternity is part of the very nature and person of God. Eternity transcends beyond our knowing anything having to do with time. It is not time at all. It is just a glorious experience of BEING! Eternity simply IS, just as God simply IS. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM" (Jn. 8:58) - not "Before Abraham was, I WAS." There are not past or future tenses in eternity. There is only one eternal NOW. Therefore I think eternity for Christians is not based on limitless time as we commonly perceive but instead based on our STATE OF BEING IN RELATIONSHIP TO GOD Elhanan, all i am doing is making the distinction that God is not eternity. i find it humorous that in the same segment, the author states God is eternal, and then states God just is. i can appreciate the attempt though. and i can appreciate your thoughts, thank you for clarifying. i am sure you understand Why we initially perceive it as 'limitless time' in our plane of existence. here we are, still maneuvering through reasoning and attempting to discern its nature in vain attempts to define it. outside of time, can i stop BEING? ------------------ forgive me if i am way off, and you are only implying that we can spiritually "have eternity" NOW. Yes we can experience eternal [aionios] life now in the sense that it is defined by our relationship with God. Essentially we now have “eternal” life with God as long as we are abiding with Him. We are the branches, Jesus is the vine. Believers have aionios life as long as they remain connected to the vine. It is as Jesus said an abundant life. It is interesting to me that when Jesus described the reason for his coming he described salvific life in terms of its quality [abundance] and not in terms of its time. Elhanan, eternity is timelessness suffices, as unsatisfying as that may seem. how that relates to a timeless communion with the Father is conjecture for me. i'll concede that it's a decent enough description for something with no frame of reference beyond the assurance we have in our hope of glory, Christ Jesus. the fruit of the Spirit is but a taste. Jesus came to be the example in bearing it. we cannot imagine the beauty of that tree emerging in full bloom. life in abundance indeed. ---------------------- but i digress. what then would your view be on the flip side of this concept, as stated in Rev. 20:10? in other words: considering our spiritual state as one in which we have an "Eternal and Qualitative Relationship" With God, in contrast how would you describe a spiritual state "Without God"? would such a state not necessarily be "eternal" as well? Again, we must be mindful of our definition in order to be consistent in our application. If aionios life refers to our state of being in relationship to God, then to not have aionios life means NOT being in a state of relationship to God. In other words separation from God – to the ages of the ages. OR, we could say to Not have aionios Life, means to have aionios Death. no? what say you to these then, brother? Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. I don't know whether souls can die - I'm not even sure if we have souls as I have not studied for myself the tripartite vs. bipartite issue. This is conjecture on my part but if a thing such as a soul exists within a timeless existence then the use of the Greek word aidios [eternal] would be appropriate rather than aiwn. Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The ascended ones are the keepers of truth, life and destiny. They possess all wisdom and knowledge, but teach humanity to follow good morals. For they raise up others to be ascended and to work by their side. If what they knew fell into the hands of mankind today, it would be abused and violate the principles of managing life. I do not believe they see humanity fit to run planetary life when they have not even come close to perfecting their own world. The 144,000 for example, will be the chosen ones to make up the body of Christ's government. We're here to learn truth and perfect our hearts so we can see how it's meant to be. We'll be shown the true way of life for our enduring belief. ok, so is this personal revelation you have received, or is this something you could show to be true through the Bible? i would even consider some extra-biblical sources if what they state is confirmed in the Bible. you will need the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses to establish this as truth. My Response: Isaiah 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." heavens (plural) earth (singular) It is what I feel when I look upon the stars. The ascended ones go to heaven and live true life by the side of Christ's rule and power. It means that your love, your convictions and your beliefs become your acceptance which forms into your true nature. Should you discover your true nature and ascend, then you will sit at the right hand of God. You will witness creation and the inner-workings of God as an ascended being while living in the image of God. Just as well as Rev 14:1 "Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads." implies duty under the Christ. Ascending has further purpose and when you surrender to the fact that God is sovereignly in control of all things, then you can begin to understand there is an underlying purpose for the ascended brothers and sisters of righteousness. Try to also remember the very fact: God does not create sin. It was the serpent that deceived mankind. God creates only eternal heavens throughout the universe. The earth is the sinful dwelling place or "Garden of Eden" from where all life stems. God would not create and fill an entire universe full of sin and despair from the plagues of humanity. The light is so vast, so powerful, so overwhelming, it entirely surrounds the earth. God creates many heavens, but only one earth. Now, does that sound like the method an ascended master would use to manage the universe? Or do you think God would fill it full of earths and sin? That is the serpent's lie. The belief in aliens and NASA's portrayal of the galaxies are entirely fictional. Mankind cannot reach the heavens without ascension. Earth is their campfire. It is also known as "the ant farm". They all sit around it waiting to see what beautiful things shall ascend up from it. Though from time to time, as you may know, some ascended ones are thrown back to the earth and descended... just like Satan was for his betrayal. Now Satan is living his last lie and illusion, cracking from the pressure of knowing the time runs out when the eternal heavens and earth meet in real time. i see, so personal revelation then. it all seems very lyrical and beautifully put, but your unwarranted sensationalism and dangerous new age terms are misleading. you could just as easily refer to those who have ascended to a higher level of existence with Christ as the saints who have been redeemed to reign with Him in glory. my true nature is discovered within by its revelation without, and is made possible through the perpetual sanctification which was ignited by my belief in Christ Jesus. it is not discovered by any perceived effort on my behalf, outside of submitting to Papa and resisting the Fallen Cherub as the Father continues His Good Work in me. my full redemption is not contingent upon discovering my true nature and, while only knowing in part, i am living my true life right now in alignment with my true destiny being conformed to the image of His Son. my "ascension", is not determined by anything which is not given to me. Isaiah 65 speaks of God's mercy and loving promise provided for the true Spiritual Israel alone. it speaks to the calling of all nations(Gentiles), and the rejection of but a remnant of the Jews, as well as judgements upon the wicked. it promises a truly blessed future for His people in agreement with His will. i do not see in the provided verse, or in the chapter's entirety how you have provided a witness to your testimony. how you "feel" when you look upon the heavens is interesting, but it is not biblical. and i believe you should express as much when presenting your statements. ------- Rev 14:1 "Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads." yes, the communion of the saints in heavenly fellowship. us in Him and Him in us, fully manifested. the true faithful and righteous celebrating and praising the Most High. but you seem to make the implication, that we are not on duty serving Christ before our "ascension". God is sovereign over all of creation whether i surrender to that reality or not, and there is obviously a greater purpose for the fellow saints who now abide in His glory as we someday will. but anything beyond this is either personal revelation, or speculation. if it is not the latter, then you will need 2 or 3 witnesses to establish the matter as truth. i respectfully find your visions and conclusions interesting, but as of yet, you have failed to do so. 1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. love to you.

The ascended ones are the keepers of truth, life and destiny. They possess all wisdom and knowledge, but teach humanity to follow good morals. For they raise up others to be ascended and to work by their side. If what they knew fell into the hands of mankind today, it would be abused and violate the principles of managing life. I do not believe they see humanity fit to run planetary life when they have not even come close to perfecting their own world. The 144,000 for example, will be the chosen ones to make up the body of Christ's government. We're here to learn truth and perfect our hearts so we can see how it's meant to be. We'll be shown the true way of life for our enduring belief. ok, so is this personal revelation you have received, or is this something you could show to be true through the Bible? i would even consider some extra-biblical sources if what they state is confirmed in the Bible. you will need the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses to establish this as truth.

<snip> Although I do agree with you that eternity is the absence of time because it transcends temporal constraints. I think we have made the mistake of defining eternity in quantitative and chronological terms in describing our spiritual state with God. Rather, we have "eternity" with Him as long as we are abiding in Him. Hence, the emphasis here is not on time and quantitative but RELATIONSHIP and QUALITATIVE. not to backtrack, but i meant to address this and propose a question to you here. obviously and as we have agreed, when speaking of eternal things time is not a factor. your view seems true enough to me here from our temporal standpoint, but not an eternal one.. correct me if i am wrong, but it seems like you are equating God with eternity in some way.. God is not eternity. we can only speculate on a timeless existence, and i don't believe we should be assigning values to it as if it was somehow mysteriously linked to our relationship with God. we are given the gift of eternal life, but that eternal life is not God. forgive me if i am way off, and you are only implying that we can spiritually "have eternity" NOW. but i digress. what then would your view be on the flip side of this concept, as stated in Rev. 20:10? in other words: considering our spiritual state as one in which we have an "Eternal and Qualitative Relationship" With God, in contrast how would you describe a spiritual state "Without God"? would such a state not necessarily be "eternal" as well? interesting. do you believe our souls can die? if so, then how would you describe the whole period of time ( or eon ) of your soul, within a timeless existence?

and here i was thinking my thread couldn't go out any further past left field. lol i'll ask you a question blindwhale, although i am wary of what you will say next.. in your opinion, who are the "ascended ones"?

sounds Catholic to me. no disrespect to those of this faith, but no one that has ever lived was sinless except Jesus Christ. and Mary didn't stay a virgin her entire life. if one prays to "Mary" or any of the other saints, then one is praying to the dead which is strictly forbidden by the KING of Heaven. i can assure you that whoever is answering his prayers is not Mary the mother of Jesus. the "Queen of Heaven" doctrine is pagan in origin and most closely resembles "Isis", the divine mother of ancient Egypt. it is nothing short of ancient goddess worship. nothing new here, just idolatry exalting a pagan god above the One True and Living God of the Bible. i would ask your friend, who Jesus Christ is to him. love to you.

One must be very careful in using modern day definitions and applying them to the ancient Greek text. While ages of the ages most certainly appears to be a long period of time, I very much doubt that the writers of the NT obtained their definition and understanding from the field geochronology. An eon is an undefined but finite period of time with a beginning and an end and cannot be construed as eternal. And an eon of time does not have to progress indefinitely as you imply as it has a fixed beginning and a fixed end. Although I do agree with you that eternity is the absence of time because it transcends temporal constraints. I think we have made the mistake of defining eternity in quantitative and chronological terms in describing our spiritual state with God. Rather, we have "eternity" with Him as long as we are abiding in Him. Hence, the emphasis here is not on time and quantitative but RELATIONSHIP and QUALITATIVE. is that what i am doing? i wasn't aware. because if eon is derived from aeon, then we are discussing the ancient Greek definition. the word eon just happens to have a modern application in geochronology, which i only pointed out because you were wondering about the numbers. and i am not implying it progresses indefinitely...that's what it does, by definition. lol. it is a perpetual period of time, never-ending, indefinite. an end is not known, predicted or forecasted. from our finite understanding, it is essentially infinite. how about Thayer's then? G165 αἰών aiōn Thayer Definition: 1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity 2) the worlds, universe 3) period of time, age

It certainly would feel like an eternity but one has to wonder how they came up with that definitive numerical figure out of thin air. we don't have to wonder. that numeral is derived from time spans used in geochronology, give or take half a billion years+. but by definition, an eon is an indefinite amount of time, and so can be considered as 'eternal' because it progresses indefinitely...although i believe that eternity is the complete absence of time as we understand it. here is an interesting look at a similar Latin word, "aevum". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aevum

e·on [ee-uhn, ee-on] noun 1. an indefinitely long period of time; age. 2. the largest division of geologic time, comprising two or more eras. 3. Astronomy . one billion years. Also, aeon. Origin: see aeon aeon or esp ( US ) eon (ˈiːən, ˈiːɒn, ˈiːən, ˈiːɒn) — n 1. an immeasurably long period of time; age 2. a period of one thousand million years 3. ( often capital ) gnosticism one of the powers emanating from the supreme being and culminating in the demiurge [C17: from Greek aiōn an infinitely long time] eon or esp ( US ) eon — n [C17: from Greek aiōn an infinitely long time] it certainly looks like infinity to me, because i surely can't comprehend an existence of 'one thousand million years'.

thanks brother Joe! oh, btw, i'm a brother too, not a sister! thank for your answer as well Elmer.

~ Beloved, Why Yes Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:12-14 Yes It Is When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. Matthew 2:10-11 And So And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28 I Do Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalms 103:1 Joe, i don't see how you showed it to be scriptural by those verses. i see it as biblical to pray all prayers in His name, though. i am by no means attempting to take away from the deity of Christ Jesus, but are we truly ever instructed in the Bible to pray to Him and not the Father?

if it is scriptural, then please provide scriptures. if it is not scriptural, then why would it be wrong to do so? love to you all.

now that i have duped you into looking... this is fun! http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/

amen!

d. it's more than just a building. it's a building where false gods are worshiped, and should be acknowledged as such. be as harmless as a dove, and as wise as a serpent. i believe Christians should exercise our discernment/spiritual awareness in all things, for there is a rabid lion on the loose. who knows what God might want to do while you are stomping around in there? but i would find no problem entering any building because no cursed ground or false religion or evil spirit can affect my position in Christ. and just as any other location, i would see it as an opportunity to manifest the love of Jesus, asking the Holy Spirit to use me as He sees fit. sight-seeing is fun, but it's crazy fun when you're sight-seeing with Jesus!

1) this was not the fall, but a specific group of angels which willingly left their first estate for the sole purpose of engaging the daughters of men. the context of this verse reveals their sin. they are now bound in darkness awaiting judgement. 2) the disembodied spirits of their offspring( the Nephilim ).

And why is it used in our affirmations and prayers?

i thought this looked interesting. available for pre-order here: http://revelationmystery.com/ God bless https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WvASosgagBw

http://www.watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon.html

sin has altered mankind, and its operation in us is at enmity with God. it is this nature which Satan has cultivated in man and has authority over. is he directly responsible? he can do nothing without man's cooperation. is he directly involved? yes, but only in alignment with God's sovereignty. omnipresence? i have come to believe that he can have eyes and ears in as many locations as he and 1/3 of the heavenly host can be, within or without a host. but no, he himself cannot be omnipresent. the spiritual realm is infused with the physical realm. it would be foolish to deny its influence. remember, the serpent was the most subtle creature in the garden. he won't come banging our door down to tell us he came to steal, kill and destroy. he manipulates, guides, and uses people to carry out his nefarious plans in order for him to obtain a tighter squeeze on this planet.

if we can believe we were formed from dirt and our souls by His breath, i find it humorous that people would doubt God maintaining Jonah's life in the belly of a beast. does it matter if it's fiction? not really, imo. God is still omnipotent, with or without our faith in the many marvelous accounts in the Word of God.

they may very well honestly believe their claim, but they are sadly deceived. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/sponge-bob-the-masonic-episode/