*Zion*

Yes, let's not be argumentative.

I think I have discovered the crux of all the matter. Why people lie, why people hurt each other, why people are jealous and have strife. Pride. It actually comes from our insecurities, and in order to rectify the problems we desperately hold on to anything that can make us seem better when we really aren't. Rich people flaunt their wealth, talented people flaunt their talents, everybody pulls everybody down to step up above. It's the number one thing that stops unbelievers from believing. How foolish we are! How wrong. May God make us right with Him in Jesus.

I agree with you, Xero! The worst kind of pride is spiritual pride. It's so deceiving. Therefore, devastatingly destructive. Not just to the proud one, but to those around they are supposedly ministering to. It degrades instead of edifies. Also, we lie only to ourselves if we think/say that we are never wrong, and that all others have got it wrong. Actually, when we do that we put ourselves in the place of God: Romans 3:4 By no means! Let God be found true though every human being is false and a liar, as it is written, That You may be justified and shown to be upright in what You say, and prevail when You are judged [by sinful men]. When we insist that we alone have the truth we have lost the ability to learn from God. God will use other people in our lives to speak to us - He used a donkey for Balaam, and can can even make stones to cry out His praise if He wanted to. I hate to see spiritual pride in others. It really infuriates me, seeing as God made all people equal, and we only have the monopoly on truth when we are in complete agreement and submission to God and His Word. It shows me that these people aren't really interested in being part of the body of Christ and just want to be above everyone else. This is not love - people will know that we are His if we love one another, not if we're only seemingly right all the time. That's why I don't want any trace of pride in my life. I know I judge too, especially myself - anything that anyone else has critized me with I have punished myself with long before 1000 times worse. But this is not edifying or fruitful. God wants our best at all times, and we can't give it to Him if we ourselves are in the way.

Hmm, In Yes you do, every one of us does. We can be proud we passed a test, obtained a qualification, finished a home DIY project. We can be proud of our children's achievements, proud of a meal we cooked that people love. Proud of an artwork we created. There is a lot we can be proud about. Biblical pride is another thing entirely. That we should ask the Lord to deal with. But not feeling proud about our achievements, and being too humble and self effacing is something satan loves us to feel. Blessings! Hmm... Ok. Let me think/pray about that one.

Hi guys, thanks again for continuing to respond. I feel like I need God to do a deeper work than just on an intellectual level. Like I said before, I know I have absolutely nothing to be proud about. It's a heart issue, really. That's what I need to concentrate on concerning this matter.

He definitely has more of a right to be jealous than we do. All glory must go to Him - He will not share it with another! He doesn't want to share us either, we are His. In the same way though, He has now become our God. That's why He has used us to provoke the Jews to jealousy, so that they will return to Him and make Him their God once again: Romans 10:19 Again I ask, Did Israel not understand? [Did the Jews have no warning that the Gospel was to go forth to the Gentiles, to all the earth?] First, there is Moses who says, I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry. Romans 11:11 So I ask, Have they stumbled so as to fall [to their utter spiritual ruin, irretrievably]? By no means! But through their false step and transgression salvation [has come] to the Gentiles, so as to arouse Israel [to see and feel what they forfeited] and so to make them jealous. Romans 11:14 In the hope of making my fellow Jews jealous [in order to stir them up to imitate, copy, and appropriate], and thus managing to save some of them.

I totally agree, Gary. Bless you, nice discussing with you too.

Jesus loves His enemies, He blesses those who curse Him and deal spitefully with Him, He forgives those who trespass against Him, He disciplines those He loves and rewards those who endure and overcome in Him. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smouldering wick He will not put out.

Thanks Angels4u, you'll notice that some of those scriptures I also included in the OP; but this is a definite fresh reminder: we need to see pride ( = sin) as God sees it - we need to absolutely loathe it! As David liked to say: "Be it far from me!"

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Good advice - "get over myself"... I'm beginning to think I need a 12-step. Am I over-thinking this? Maybe I need a good spill on the floor, I don't know...

Very interesting Zion! Though I am curious- in what manner does this relate to God's jealousy to us? If this is the bride (the church) speaking to the groom (Christ) then what is the relation? (Sorry if this appears nit-picky, I am just stirring discussion ) To me, this is a husband and wife senario, no husband would ever want to share his wife with His enemy, and I know if that ever happened between me and my husband (never want it to!!!) I know that he had better be jealous! And I would be too if the situation were reversed. We are the bride of Christ, so of course, He has every right to be jealous over us. But the fact that He actually is... I mean, who is man that He is so mindful of him? Of me??? That's another mystery! But I bless the Lord that He does love us so much. This love is what has saved our very souls.

Thanks guys for the responses so far, I am blessed! No, NYL, not intending to give up! I love Jesus, and more importantly, HE loved me first! Bless you all so much, will continue to post my thoughts as I meditate, contemplate, and learn...

1 Thessalonians 4:11 To make it your ambition and definitely endeavor to live quietly and peacefully, to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we charged you, Matthew 5:9 Blessed (enjoying enviable happiness, spiritually prosperous—with life-joy and satisfaction in God’s favor and salvation, regardless of their outward conditions) are the makers and maintainers of peace, for they shall be called the sons of God! John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; My [own] peace I now give and bequeath to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. [stop allowing yourselves to be agitated and disturbed; and do not permit yourselves to be fearful and intimidated and cowardly and unsettled.] Blessings!

I love your signature, Noobie! LOVE IT!!! What a joy...

Phew!!! I thought it was just me...

Reminded me of something: Song of Solomon 8v6: Set me like a seal upon your heart, like a seal upon your arm; for love is as strong as death, jealousy is as hard and cruel as Sheol (the place of the dead). Its flashes are flashes of fire, a most vehement flame [the very flame of the Lord]! By the way, that's the bride speaking to the Groom!!!

Leviticus 26v19 And I will break and humble your pride in your power, and I will make your heavens as iron [yielding no answer, no blessing, no rain] and your earth [as sterile] as brass. 1 Samuel 2v3 Talk no more so very proudly; let not arrogance go forth from your mouth, for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and by Him actions are weighed. 1 Kings 12v32 - 13v6 12 32 And Jeroboam appointed a feast on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, like the feast kept in Judah, and he offered sacrifices upon the altar. So he did in Bethel, sacrificing to the calves he had made. And he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places he had made. 33 So he offered upon the altar he had made in Bethel on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, a date which he chose individually; and he appointed a feast for the Israelites and he went up to the altar to burn incense [in defiance of God’s law.] 13 1 And behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the Lord to Bethel. Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense. 2 The man cried against the altar by the word of the Lord, O altar, altar, thus says the Lord: Behold, a son shall be born to the house of David, Josiah by name; and on you shall he offer the priests of the high places who burn incense on you, and men’s bones shall be burned on you. 3 And he gave a sign the same day, saying, This is the sign which the Lord has spoken: Behold, the altar shall be split and the ashes that are upon it shall be poured out. [Fulfilled in II Kings 23:15, 16.] 4 When King Jeroboam heard the words the man of God cried against the altar in Bethel, he thrust out his hand, saying, Lay hold on him! And his hand which he put forth against him dried up, so that he could not draw it to him again. 5 The altar also was split and the ashes poured out from the altar according to the sign which the man of God had given by the word of the Lord. 6 And the king said to the man of God, Entreat now the favor of the Lord your God and pray for me, that my hand may be restored to me. And the man of God entreated the Lord, and the king’s hand was restored and became as it was before. 2 Kings 19:28 Because your raging against Me and your arrogance and careless ease have come to My ears, therefore I will put My hook in your nose and My bridle in your lips, and I will turn you back by the way you came, O king of Assyria. 2 Chronicles 26:16 But when [King Uzziah] was strong, he became proud to his destruction; and he trespassed against the Lord his God, for he went into the temple of the Lord to burn incense on the altar of incense. Psalm 31:18 Let the lying lips be silenced, which speak insolently against the [consistently] righteous with pride and contempt. Psalm 36:11 Let not the foot of pride overtake me, and let not the hand of the wicked drive me away. Psalm 94:2 Rise up, O Judge of the earth; render to the proud a fit compensation Matthew 23:12 Whoever exalts himself [with haughtiness and empty pride] shall be humbled (brought low), and whoever humbles himself [whoever has a modest opinion of himself and behaves accordingly] shall be raised to honor. Luke 1:51 He has shown strength and made might with His arm; He has scattered the proud and haughty in and by the imagination and purpose and designs of their hearts. 1 Corinthians 1:31 So then, as it is written, Let him who boasts and proudly rejoices and glories, boast and proudly rejoice and glory in the Lord. 2 Corinthians 10:5 [inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) Proverbs 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. James 4:6 But He gives us more and more grace (power of the Holy Spirit, to meet this evil tendency and all others fully). That is why He says, God sets Himself against the proud and haughty, but gives grace [continually] to the lowly (those who are humble enough to receive it). We all struggle with pride, so how do we get rid of it? How do we make ourselves humble? Sorry if this seems like a dumb question - if it is then I must be extremely proud if I can't get rid of it! It's definitely a fleshly issue, and we all must crucify the flesh, every day. But if it's so simple, why is it so hard? Is it very simple? All I know is I want to be like Jesus. I have prayed about this, but maybe I need to do more - fast, and meditate on the verses above and so on. I don't want God to resist anything in me, or there to be any area in me not submitted to me. Thinking about it, I realise now that I am extremely proud!!! God, please help me! And the worst part? I have nothing to be proud about!!!!!!! All thoughts, suggestions and PRAYERS extremely welcome. I'll try my best not to be proud in my responses, especially to the posts that are harder to swallow. We should all accept the truth IN LOVE. ***I suggest we all search our hearts concerning this matter as we respond to one another - it will help greatly in the understanding of this issue, surely!*** Blessings xx

Thanks for the encouragement, it's hard going at the moment. I pray that God opens their eyes so that they'll stop being a hindrance themselves and become true access points. In Jesus Name.

All I know is that they're way higher than ours...

Then how come the Son of God was made manifest in the physical, and yet before Abraham was, He is? And what about heaven? Is it a physical place or a spiritual place? If it's spiritual, how come it didn't exist in the physical first, but that we are told in Matthew 6 to pray to God for His Kingdom - of heaven - to come to earth? And what about Angels? And demons? And satan?

I was just considering the matter. Already said I'll take another look. Haven't done so yet, but I will. Blessings

I truly believe it's as simply as pure servant-heartedness. Just be a great servant, and you'll be great! Joseph was taken from a pit and sold into slavery out of jealsouy, only to to become head-slave i his master's household. Out of jealousy again, he was thrown into prison, but God exalted him and made him the Pharoah's greatest servant. Egypt then was a, if not THE prominent world power. Just be a servant. A good one. Blessings!

As I understand it, this 'all seeing eye' is a poor imitation/counterfeit by the enemy of God's omniscience, omnipotence and scope. The enemy is full of pride and is the source of pride, and therefore always seeks to exalt himself above God. Thank the Lord, he always fails. This 'eye' perpetrates the lie that he is all-knowing and all-powerful, but it just isn't so. God doesn't need symbols, He uses us as His vessels - a much more effective way of establishing His Kingdom/Kingship, don't you think? Blessings

Ok, thianks guys, will look at the video again.