Butch5

That's a good question. I think the answer is that tradition has taken the place of the word of God.

Predestination simply means to determine before hand. God has predetermined that those who follow Christ will be saved. However, I don't see any thing in the Scriptures that teach all are predestined to salvation. That's not to say that all can't be saved, they can be. Hi Butch, I agree God had a set plan before he even created the earth and gave man dominion over it. God predetermined that the salvation of man would come through the sacrifice of his only begotton Son Jesus Christ in whom he sent into the world at the appointed time. There is no other way, no other plan whereby men can be saved it's only through the work done on the cross through the death burial and resurrection of Christ that we have dominion and victory over sin. All are included in God's predetermined plan of salvation but not all will accept the way of salvation that God has shown and given freely to man. But there was a way predetermined in Christ for one to recieve salvation and escape the condemnation of God. OK, I thought you were getting at the Scriptural use of the word predestination.

Predestination simply means to determine before hand. God has predetermined that those who follow Christ will be saved. However, I don't see any thing in the Scriptures that teach all are predestined to salvation. That's not to say that all can't be saved, they can be. God knows before we are born if we will be in the Lamb's Book of Life. Knowing something and causing it are two different things. Except for the fact that God is the creator. If he creates a person, knowing what they will do, and he designed them that way, it is the same thing. Why create a person you know will die in their sins? It seems your premise is that God creates each person. Can you show where Scripture teaches this? If so, can you show where Scripture teaches that God creates some evil and some good?

Yes. Judas Iscariot for one. I have a question for you Butero. Do you believe that God forenew Judas Iscariot? Absolutely. He created him to be the betrayer of his son. He "foreknew" exactly what he would do. He was created for that purpose. The reason I asked this question Butero is because the scripture plainly states in.... Romans 8:29 - For whom he did "foreknow" he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. If God did foreknow Judas Iscariot then Judas was predestined to be changed he was predestined to be saved through the power of Jesus Christ redemptive work. Now I am not going to judge whether or not Judas was forgiven for his betrayal of Jesus or of his suicide. But I do know scripture says for whom God did "foreknow" (and God foreknowed all of us before we were fearfully and wonderfully made in our mother's womb). If God did not foreknow us then we wouldn't exist and our salvation would not have been predetermined to come through Jesus Christ before God even created the earth. Scripture states this in.... Ephesians 1:4-14 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the foregiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.... This scripture states that God has chosen us (male, female, Jew, or Gentile) in Christ before the earth was even created yet. God foreknew us before the earth was made and he chose us even before our existance in the earth in every age every generation Christ is door to the sheepfoldto have cleansing from our sins and forgiveness of sin. God's predetermined will before creation was that all would be made a new creature in Christ to be conformed to his image having our sins and tresspasses washed away by the blood of Jesus receiving redemption and acceptance of God as his children. Hi OC, These two passages are not speaking of Christians, nor "us" as many Christians believe. This is what I was getting at in the other post. A closer study of the passages in context will reveal that Ephesians 1 is referring to the Jews and the Romans 8 passage is referring to OT saints.

What exactly is it that you are struggling with? what does being created good or evil have to do with predestination? what does having your name in or out of the book of life have to do with predestination? what does losing or keeping one's salvation have to do with the subject of predestination. I cannot see for the life of me how these things are related to what predestination actually is. I can't see how all of these topics got entangled with a pre- determined plan God made before he created the earth and the things within it. God had a purpose and plan that all could be saved in and through his son Jesus Christ and that anyone down throughout the generations and ages could be part of the children of God. It simply was God's plan before the creation that both the Jews and Gentile nations be saved. None of it really has to do with predestination. One of the ways things got so mixed up is with the addition of verse numbers. Before verse numbers people read the Scriptures like a book. Now, however, with the addition of verse numbers Christians simply choose a belief and then take a passage or two out context and attempt to use them to prove their point.

Hi Asper, You are so correct in saying that the plan of God did not fail. In fact the plan of God from before the foundation of the earth was laid is still very much in tact working to the good pleasure of the purpose of his will. However I don't share in the view that everyone who has been born into this earth will be saved. But I do believe that as you've shown in scripture very adequately that God has given mankind every opportunity to be saved from the fall of man. But we have also been shown in scripture that the unrepentent (those who refused to turn back to God did not escaped the judgment of God when it came. As their were consequences of choosing to follow the wicked one (Satan) instead refusing the salvation and plan of God. Hi openly curious, I’m afraid that you may of misunderstood me. You said, Quote, However I don't share in the view that everyone who has been born into this earth will be saved. Unquote. Wheareas I said, Quote, “I believe that the plan of God did not fail. Those who were planned to exist from the foundation of the world will be saved. Those whose existence comes into effect because of the fall still can be saved but in reality they will not because they actually belong to someone else.” Unquote. But no mater it is a theory, God bless, Tony Who werethose planned to exist from the foundation of the world?

Predestination simply means to determine before hand. God has predetermined that those who follow Christ will be saved. However, I don't see any thing in the Scriptures that teach all are predestined to salvation. That's not to say that all can't be saved, they can be. God knows before we are born if we will be in the Lamb's Book of Life. Knowing something and causing it are two different things.

What exactly is it that you are struggling with?

Predestination simply means to determine before hand. God has predetermined that those who follow Christ will be saved. However, I don't see any thing in the Scriptures that teach all are predestined to salvation. That's not to say that all can't be saved, they can be.

I think a case can be made that Jesus was born on Rosh Hashanah. If I remover correctly it was Sept 11, 3 BC

I'll have to do that in the future.

You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. I have been trying to get across what you said here. Most want to stay under the law and works, when the Bible states we have been deliver from both the law and works. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. They did not go to the Gentiles till Peter was sent. That is plain from scripture. In fact, until then they did not even know the Gentiles could be saved. See Acts 10-11 and other passages. Besides in Galatians 2 they all agreed that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles. That is the problem. You take a passage out of context, add your own interpretation by adding words or giving a false definition, and claim that that shows the very many passages I give as wrong. Jesus Christ warned about that. Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Dude, if anyone is taking Scriptures out of context it's not me. I'm not the one who's posting 30 or 40 passages of Scripture in a post devoid of the context in which they were written. I also never said the passages you posted were wrong. It's been my experience that when people post boatloads of Scripture without commentary they don't really know what the Scriptures teach. I have noticed when people put a lot of commentary and little scripture, they are usually deceiving and show how little they value God's words. I see logic and reason have no place here. Have a nice day

You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong. They did not go to the Gentiles till Peter was sent. That is plain from scripture. In fact, until then they did not even know the Gentiles could be saved. See Acts 10-11 and other passages. Besides in Galatians 2 they all agreed that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles. That is the problem. You take a passage out of context, add your own interpretation by adding words or giving a false definition, and claim that that shows the very many passages I give as wrong. Jesus Christ warned about that. Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Dude, if anyone is taking Scriptures out of context it's not me. I'm not the one who's posting 30 or 40 passages of Scripture in a post devoid of the context in which they were written. I also never said the passages you posted were wrong. It's been my experience that when people post boatloads of Scripture without commentary they don't really know what the Scriptures teach.

You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do? Paul is the apostles of the Gentiles. He was put to death. As to the others: James killed by Herod's decree. Peter killed by crucifixion. John exiled on Patmos. Do not know from the Holy Bible anything else. Paul to the Gentiles, the others were supposed to go to the circumcision. As to all the verses I post, it is just because the scripture and I agree. You do not have much because you and the scriptures do not agree. They went to the Gentiles just like Jesus told them to do. Regarding the Scriptures, just because you post them doesn't mean they say what you think they say. I can take a sentence out of just about any book and say it means this or it means that. Unless you believe there are errors in the Scriptures one passage that opposes your position is enough to prove it wrong.

You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible? Now you are being silly. I just put scripture up. I make comments about scripture. Everybody does that. I do use a lot of scripture though and make less comments. But I do discuss scripture, not supposed history from supposed early church fathers. History is HIS-story. It is whatever survived. But Paul in his epistles gives quite a bit of history. If you look in epistles, there were already heresies abounding by circa 40 AD. So how do you know some history is not already promoting heresies. It is simple, just read Paul's epistles. As Paul wrote: 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. I'm being silly? Posting a hundred verses doesn't prove a point. All it shows is that you know where those verses are. If they are not in context they have no meaning. The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to the apostles. Paul's travels are somewhat recorded, however there were 12 other apostles, what did they do?

You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history. What HIS-story are we talking about? Satan's lies? The Holy Bible is the only source of truth. You have just refuted yourself, because you have admitted that the Holy Bible does not support your theory. Ok, so everything outside the Bible is a lie? If that is the case why should I listen to you, what you say is outside of the Bible?

You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also. Not after the agreement in Galatians 2. So you are wrong. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: You might want to look at history.

Sorry, wrong. You make no sense at all. When there are a very many scriptures that show that Jesus Christ is God Almighty, then that is the truth. Since the scripture is not inconsistent and cannot be broken, that is the end of the discussion. What you do is find something that you try to twist into a false doctrine. First disprove all the ones I have given and prove that the ones you supposedly have, actually say what you claim. The following declares that Jesus Christ is God. There is only one God and God is Almighty from eternity. Therefore so is Jesus. John 20:28-29 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. Ok, I can see that logic and proper reasoning have no place here. Have a nice day.

You also have to take other Scriptures into account and reconcile everything. Paul said, for us there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. Each of the passages must be understood within the larger context in which it was written. Also keep in mind that theGreek word translated God means divine our deity. Jesus can be divine without being the Father.

I would put forward Prophecy as evidence that the Scriptures are reliable. The Dead Sea scrolls contain copies of prophecy that can be dated prior to Christ. You could talk about prophecies, sure, but that isn't the tactic I'm taking here. That the DSS contain copies that predate Christ doesn't seem directly relevant to me. What is it you're looking for?

I would put forward Prophecy as evidence that the Scriptures are reliable. The Dead Sea scrolls contain copies of prophecy that can be dated prior to Christ.

The way we know God is not an invention is prophecy. God has said He would do things hundreds and thousands of years in the future and they have come to pass. We can look at secular history to see things that happened that God said would happen. No human being can do that.

You might be interested to know that the rest of the apostles went to the Gentiles also.

Jesus is God in the sense that He is of the same essence as the Father. However it is the Father who is the ultimate God