Gideon

Many in the body of Christ have seen the words of Paul and James at odds with one another, even while believing that the Bible cannot contradict itself. It has to do with works...... fruits of our salvation. Here is what James is basically stating: You show me your faith without your works and I will show you mine BY my works. In today's spiritual climate, many people on cue will start shouting "legalism!" Let me be perfectly clear. We do not earn our salvation by works. Nor do we keep it by doing works. So how do we align James statement with grace? Where are the works he talks about to originate? The answer? The indwelling Holy Spirit who has promised to cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure. God possessing us and acting as the master potter in our lives, changing us from self-centered individuals given to sin and displaying our fallen nature to love filled, joyful saints walking as overcomers in this life. But this explanation of James might now line up more closely with Paul, but it in no way satisfies the dilemma. It exacerbates it many-fold. Why? Because it reveals our great lack. We as His people, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, are supposed to love one another as Christ loved the church. We do not. Yet how many there are who try to defend our indefensible position. They lean upon our excuse that we are only human and no one is perfect. But we are not talking perfection but fruitfulness! We are not called to do better once we are saved. Nor are we called to be nicer people. We are simply the lumps of clay that God has promised to fashion into masterpieces displaying his skills as a potter. What we are lacking is seeing the fulfillment of the promise our God has clearly made to us to fill us with spiritual fruits, to sanctify us wholly, body soul and spirit. You see, it is to be by these changes that our God brings about in us, that the world can see the light of Jesus IN US, and those that love the light will come to the source of that light... Jesus Himself. And guys, it is time we admit we are far, far from that, as the world simply mocks us for our shallowness and religious hypocrisy. We want to recoil in denial, but our actions speak far louder than any arguments we can muster. Here is the truth that most cannot admit..... yet. We cannot yet see it, but soon, our eyes will be opened to some harsh realities. Please understand, they will be hard to own up to, but to those who do, God comes with healing, hope, and yes, mind-blowing changes as to who we are and how we interact with the world around us. Ready? We are those who draw near to Him with our lips but our hearts are far from Him. We are those who are healed only slightly, saying 'peace, peace' when we have no peace We are those possessing a form of godliness, but our lives deny the power of it to a world desperately in need of light from a city set on a hill. We are playing church, with our hearts totally unburdened from the weight of men's eternal souls bound for an eternity without Christ. We are the salt that has lost its savor, and currently, we are good for nothing but to be trodden underfoot by a world that despises our hypocrisy. We are those whohear the Word "Laodecia" and our spiritual hackles go full ballistic, never realizing that such a response is exactly what the Laodecians would have done. Like them, we too claim that because we have grace, we need nothing when the very grace we say we love isxsupposed to teach us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts and to fill us with love for others, even our enemies. Before you get too overwhelmed with hopelessness or awash with righteous anger, God has promised to restore what the cankerworm has eaten. He has assured us Hecwill pour out upon us the very same Spirit in the very same measure as He did on the early disciples. But we must know this. It will not just "happen". His move upon His own will happen as a response to our cry. Only when we finally have had enough of religion, of head knowledge of doctrines with no heart knowledge of servanthood, only when we see ourselves as wretched men, forgiven but still enslaved to our carnal natures, and no longer be willing to accept it, will God move upon us and set us free indeed, just as He promised. Saints, a revival IS coming. An outpouring unprecedented since the day of pentecost. Tbe sheep and goats have been kept in the same pasture long enough. The valley of decision is fast approaching. Here one decision is to be made. Just one. Will we love our lives, our goals, our dreams, our religious correctness,our ndealt with and secret sins, or will we fall at the feet of our master, saying As the Word tells us, the day is far spent, the night is at hand, and we are not still not saved. Oh, we may still be heaven bound, but with hearts bound to sin's power and grip. Free indeed is but a myth to us, for unbelief in our God's ability to deliver us from US now rules the roost. And the fox approaches..... O Lord, hear us! Subdue our iniquities! Father, change us, fill us, free us, even as you promised! Even so Lord Jesus, restore us to being your bride without spot or wrinkle, ready to meet her soon coning king. Blessings, Gideon

Your last statement is a sad and twisted attempt to bolster your argument. For many reasons, a man or woman cn stop loving their spouse. It happens. Does this mean divorce them? Not at all. Work at it. Pray. Get counseling. God hates divorce. However, to try to put the ultimate guilt upon them that they then do not really love the Lord is not only wrong, but mean. Gids

Hi again JCT. I apologize for my last post. The content is truth, but this is your post, and I did not mean to hijack it. If you wish, I will be glad to delete it and post it as a stand alone. I realize the words I wrote can sound harsh, bur any who know me well also know it was written with tears and a burdened heart. blessings, Gideon

Maybe I am reading into your post, or perhaps others are not getting the jist of your message. But if I am correct, you are simply reiterating what James said. You show me your faith without your works and I will show you mine BY my works. In today's spiritual climate, people on cue will start shouting "legalism!" Let me be perfectly clear. We so not earn our salvation by works. Nor do we keep it by doing works. So how do we align James statement with grace? Where are the works to originate? The answer? The indwelling Holy Spirit who has promised to cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure. God being the potter in our lives. But this does not satisfy the dilemma. It exacerbates it many-fold. Why? Because it reveals our great lack. We are supposed to love one another as Christ loved the church. We do not. Many try to defend our indefensible position. We are lacking the promise Our God has clearly made to us to fill us with spiritual fruits, to sanctify wholly, body soul and spirit, so that by the changes God brings about in us, the world can see that our God is THE God. And guys, we are far far from that, as the world simply mocks us for our shallowness and religious hypocrisy. Yet here is the truth that most cannot admit. We cannot set see it. Bur here is rhe truth. We are those who draw near to Him with our lips but our hearts are far from Him. We are those who are healed only slightly, saying 'peace, peace' when we have no peace We are those possessing a form of godliness, but our lives deny the power of it to a world desperately in need of light from a city set on a hill. We are playing church, with our hearts totally unburdened from the weight of men's eternal souls bound for an eternity without Christ. We hear the Word "Laodecia" and our spiritual hackles go full ballistic, never realizing that such a response is exactly what the Laodecians would do. God has promised to restore what the cankerworm has eaten, but only when we finally have had enough of religion, of head knowledge of doctrines with no heart knowledge of servanthood. Saints, a revival IS coming. An outpouring unprecedented since the day of pentecost. Tbe sheep and goats have been kept in the same pasture long enough. The valley of decision is fast approaching. Here one decision is to be made. Just one. Will we love our lives, our goals, our dreams, our religious correctness,our ndealt with and secret sins, or will we fall at the feet of our master, saying "The day is far spent, the night is at hand, and we are not still not saved from evil' power and grip. . Deliver us from US, O Lord. Subdue our iniquities, change us, fill us, free us, even as you promised! Even so Lord Jesus, restore us to a church without spot or wrinkle. Blessings, Gideon

Praise God. This is truth and truth will set us free in direct proportion to our faith to believe it. Thank you for this post, my friend. blessings, Gideon

Ohhhhh, I coulda had a V8. ?

In fairness, let me present the "other side" of the coin, lol. Should it bother us that divorce in the church is almost exactly the same percentage as those in the world? Absolutely! Does it? Hmmmmm, I think not. We simply do not have ears to hear the answer, or, perhaps we have ears and simply don't like God's answer, so we would rather ignore it, claim grace anyway and think nothing of it. The current state of the church, mirrored by our divorce rate, is shouting to the world that having the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the indwelling Holy Spirit is not exactly working out as God planned it. They see us as shallow hypocrites. How can we say we love God whom we have not seen if we cannot love our brothers whom we have seen. And should marriages between saints be the crowning glory displaying that love? Do we love others as we love ourselves? Do we even want to? and if the answer is no, do we desire to be changed in our inner man so that God's love flows through us? The red flags are being raised that something is wrong with our understanding of the gospel. We believe sanctification is time-related, but are we truly progressing to being changed into His image with more and more spiritual fruits abounding in our lives? Is sin becoming more and more sinful to us? Are we overcoming it more and more? Or have we become content to simply be saved by grace but not delievered from the power of darkness by that same grace? Are we not fulfilling the very same sin as the laodecians, content to be forgiven but totally lukewarm to seeking God's face for more of Him so that our actions, marriage included, point those in the world to Jesus? Are we not, in essence, saying that because we have grace for forgiveness, for salvation, somehow we now have need of nothing? I pray we wake up to the lateness of the hour and the Spirit's calling us to come up higher, to hate our self life so He can finally live through us. to hate our worldliness and compromise, and to seek for a deeper indwelling of the Spirit that actually causes us to live, to act, to think differently. blessings, Gideon

How convenient! LOL. In 1Corinthians 7:27, 28 it says, "Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But even if you do marry, you have not sinned." Do you not see what Paul is telling the christians at Corinth? The last sentence is clearly referring to the two immediately preceding it. Look, I certainly stand with you about divorce. God hates divorce. HATES it. But you do not rectify anything by your proposed solution. You cause more irreparable harm, most likely turning multitudes of children against ever seeking God at all. Just out of curiosity, why this particular sin? Are there things in your life you know are sins and yet continuing to do? If so, why do you expect forgiveness? I pray you remember. In the same measure you mete, it will be measured our to you. If your motive in these posts is love and concern for those affected by divorce, your empathy should be palpable in how you share your concerns. . Tears should accompany your pleas for those in error to turn from sin. But the truth is, at least in how I see you sharing, there is a clinical hardness, a black and white legalistic letter-of-the-law spirit that comes through what you post. I am not trying to be harsh to you, but when the cure causes as much or more pain than the original sin, you need to truly get with God and let Him change you so that your motives for your posts are FOR the readers instead of just wanting to be right. blessings to you, Vic. Gideon

You did not answer my question. If you stole from the IRS in 1986 and never made it right, are you not then still a thief? According to you, you are.

The woman at the well, who had multiple previous husbands and the man she was with then was not even her husband..... remember her? Did Jesus demand she go back and undo all six marriages or did He offer her the cure for a heart that had committed those sins?

Well, adulterers were stoned. Is that not for our learning as well??

Let me ask you Vic. The sins in your life over the years where you have hurt people or perhaps fudged on your taxes a bit, lied, or stolen...... have you gone back and made amends with every single on of them? Have you written to the iRS about your 1986 tax return where you deducted some things you knew were not valid deductions. You cannot pick and choose which sins you correct and which sins you do not. If you have been unfaithful in little things, how will God give you big things? You have an obvious bone to pick with marriage and divorce. I fully agree it should not happen and frankly, I believe we should be on our knees seeking God for the real answer as to why it is happening. But repentance washes all that away. True repentance will leave us thinking differently in the future about our past sins. That is what God wants. blessings, Gids

You do realize Ezra is an old testament book, right?

Ok, I agree with Beaujangles. You are deep into legalistic territory..... like Pharisee deep. What is done is done. You cannot undo it. Do you realize how many have married a second time, had children, raised a family. And you seriously are proposing the man ot woman now leave their second mate, tear up an entire family, destroy the security of the children, and this is somehow pleasing to God? Seriously? Yes, it is sad this has become our norm, but your answer will inflict more pain, not lessen it. blessings, Gids

In WW2, there was no "political agenda". There was a clear cut evil, and a clear cut resistance to it. Soldiers were not put in a position of killing children because they may have bombs strapped to them. Officers were not "fragged", killed when the men serving under their command did not like them. Drugs had not yet entered the picture. Does that make sense? blessings, Gids

I fully agree. But surely, you must admit our view of marriage and divorce in the overall climate of today's church does not line up with scripture. Those who have erred can receive forgiveness with confession and turning away from the sin. But we also have an obligation to speak up concerning the truth so that others do not repeat our mistakes. God wants us holy. Until we take that call with far more seriousness than we have in the past, we will continue to err, and rob ourselves of the. joy of true overcoming and abiding in Him. blessings, Gids

I have no more guilt. However, if I forget the error I made, convincing myself it is no big deal, do I just wink at sin in the future? Never. We need to learn where we have slipped and change our thinking..... and our future behavior. blessings to you, Beau Gideon

I agree with you about condemnation. Condemnation offers no hope. Conviction however calls for repentance, for changing how we think and act going forward, which does bring hope. I have read a good bit of Vic's offerings, and in my opinion, it does not leave a lot of room for change, just guilt. Rhis is not what God desires. . Have we strayed as God's people concerning marriage? Absolutely. But as I pointed out in my offering, actions we have taken cannot be undone. They are what they are. All we can do s confess them and learn from our errors. therein lies the hope. However, if we choose to ignore whatcis happening as a whole in the body..... an acceptance of divorce as "just the way it is in today's society", then have we truly repented, or learned from God what He wants so badly to teach us? I have seen in many churches that marriage itself is looked upon as "old school" and younger Christian adults are choosing to simply live together. And we as the body have rarely lifted up voices of dissent because, after all, 'who are we to judge?' We have sacrificed truth for convenience, for 'not offending'. Truth, like stone is not washed away in one act of disobedience, but is eroded away over a long period of time. But in the end, he change, the compromise is still sin. My take on this subject is we have lost connection with God's Spirit, and satan has gladly filled the void with "doing what seems right in our own eyes." I am convinced at some point God is going to restore us to purity of life and doctrine, and when that happens, we are going to see to our shame how far we have slipped. Marriage and divorce is most definitely one of those areas. My own message is often called condemning and judgmental. How often we mistake efforts to being about conviction with condemnation. We are in the place of saints wanting their ears tickled, but that cannot continue. God is looking for tears and broken hearts. I pray we give them to the One we love. blessings, Gids

Brother, you have seemed a kind and balanced brother. Why has this gotten under your skin to such a degree that you keep pressing? The fact of the matter is, to your question of where Vic got his "tripe", he responded with a pretty darned clear scripture. Agreed, it does not fit in with our modern version of truth, but it is certainly scripture and not tripe at all. To my shame, I myself am guilty, as I was married for25 years before divorcing. I married again and have been married for 18 years, and made my choice with no guilt, no conviction..... and certainly without that verse in the forefront of my heart. I was wrong, but like Humpty Dumpty, what I did was cannot be undone or put back together. I have simply had to repent, confess it and receive forgiveness. But as to whether or not I see it now as sin, can I in good conscience say the Word is simply out of date, judgmental, harsh.... in error?? Never. So when verses like this come up that do not tickle our ears but instead rub our fur the wrong way, the solution is not to ignore God's Word or somehow explain it away..... but rather to turn around so our fur is rubbed the right way! LOL. Just something to ponder on. blessings, Beau Gideon

Brother, what you are seemingly unable to grasp is how your posts come across to others. It is one thing to be convinced you are correct, but another to make anyone who sees it differently, to be washed over with frequent references to your education, your resume, your intellect, to books you have read, expressed in religious words the apostles themselves would have found completely baffled by. You have a right to your opinion, Josh, but frankly, you come across as frustratingly having to deal with others who are not on "your"level of intellect. In my opinion, the truths of scripture are not discerned through much learning but from heart hunger. I know others have brought this up to you, but you do not seem able to understand that presentation is important if you are to lead people to see the truth as you see it. What good is it to be "right" if no one listens because you come across as a know-it-all.... even if you by chance do know it all! LOL I do not agree with your take on this subject, and that is ok. But how we interact is a far truer expression of where we are with God, than all the understanding we have of scripture with our heads. I love you brother. Gids

In my opinion.......the mark of the beast happened at a time near when the book of Revelation was written (prior to 70 AD) and the coming in clouds happened during the lifetimes of the eleven. See how much better that flows? ?

And who is the final judge of what the intent of the author was? What you do not see is that your take on things in scripture is simply your take. You may quote other esteemed men of God but you are simply mirroring their take. Ultimately, each one of us is going to give account for how we lived in light of the understanding we ourselves had. Do you understand you can be wrong about the return of Christ? Perhaps you are right, perhaps not, but it would be far wiser to say "In my opinion...." than to act as if any who see things differently than you are somehow totally misled. Just some rhing to think about. blessings, Gids

Peter tells us that we are given exceeding great and precious promises and i5 is by these promises, and our believing them, that we are changed into His image. The entire old testament points to one very clear goal. God wants us to believe Him. Not just believe IN Him Believe Him. Without faith, it is not just hard, it is impossible to please Him. We nod our heads, because after all, we believe Him right? Yes, praise God, we do! But what we have lost sight of is that we are to see that faith grow, fighting our good fight of faith. We are to overcome the world, the flesh and the devil by faith. How do we abide in Him? By faith! To what end? That we might be established in the faith unshakeable. So has our faith in Him, in what He promised us, grown? Yes, we have escaped Egypt, but there is more! And we cannot move forward until we step out of our boats of unbelief and trust what He has promised us. And what has He promised us? Let's start with this one, for it is critical to our walk as overcomers. He has promised to not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist, even assuring us that He will make a way of escape every time so that when we resist, the devil will flee from us..... guaranteed. Wow! Some say "Yes, but we are only human.". I suspect God knew thst when He gave us that amazing promise, don't you? ? Are we building ourselves up in our most holy faith, grabbing hold of such a promise that we so desperately need in order to walk as obedient children, or are we content to simply be forgiven, refusing through our unbelief to grow up into Him in all things. Unbelief is the ultimate insult to God, for it declares our mind, our logic, our intelligence is more trustworthy than God Himself. In essence, it calls God a liar. In these last days, we see the shakings beginning to occur. Thank God, one of the things that will be shaken out of us as His children in unbelief. The promises of God are soon to be viewed, not as optional, but as an absolute necessity. blessings, Gideon

This is just an observation. According to stats I have heard, the divorce rate among Christians is about exactly the same as those in the world. Should this not set a red flag off in our hearts? Has not the love of God been shed abroad in our hearts? And yet, we cannot make our marriages work, just as those in the world cannot? We are told that to whom much is given, much is required. We are to walk to a higher standard, are we not? It is one thing to point out what we should be doing, when we are not. But if that is the extent of it, and we do not ask ourselves the obvious question begging to be asked, we deceive ourselves. What is that question? Why is this happening? What are we lacking that makes us live like those in the world? It is a question that demands an answer. We can be made to feel guilty about the truth about where we find ourselves. We can vow to try to do better. We can even choose to stick it out with a wife or husband we no longer may be in love with. This may indeed be making a fair show in the flesh.... outer appearances.... but this does not get to the root of the problem. And the next question that needs to be asked is: How? How can we be changed to love as He desires us to love? There is an answer. There is a way to be restored to a condition of "without spot or wrinkle", but it first requires we acknowledge that we need to be. blessings, Gideon

Of course they do. I stand by faith, and if my faith is ahaken for one reason or another, I am capable of falling like anyone else. When one takes their stand of faith, the battle, which the Word calls "our good fight of faith" is not over, but truly just begun. God wills that we stand in the faith, resist satan in the faith, grow in the faith, endure in the faith, overcome the world by faith. It is in this way we eventually become established in the faith, unshakeable. Entering into the land of promise by faith is wonderful, but the enemy still needs to be driven out. That takes effort, but it is not working FOR the victory, but rather working IN it. I pray all understand, this is in no way legalism, or working to stay free indeed, but simply submitting to Christ working in us, through us to being about His full will for us. As Paul said, "I strive according to His strivings in me." When one puts on their new nature by faith, you do not think "OK, I have arrived. I do not need to watch, or pray, or press any longer. I can rest!" In truth, it is quite the opposite. You remember who you were and realize that without the armor of God, without your shield of faith, without letting your faith grow by meditating on His word, you can fall. God keeps you as you believe He will. It is way He actually causes us to walk obediently. We are never robots. He simply changes our 'want to. LOL. I can hear someone share truth about the new nature and they might have walked there a week. I have for fourteen years. But truth is truth and truth sets free, and I will be blessed and edified beyond measure by their sharing. I am a part of the body of Christ. If the body as a whole is in need, there is a part of me in need as well. When I use the term "we", I am preaching to me just as much as to others. I pray this helps. blessings, Gideon