mickiel

I am not a member of any church, and no church can give people understanding of me. Universalist do not have a monopoly on belief in universal salvation , just as Christianity does not have a monopoly on the truth; Christians just have a need to put religious labels on others, so they can brand them like a cow. I walk alone in my views, there are not many out there I can agree with totally; if any. That's just how much deception is out there; Its everywhere in every group. That is what Rev. 12:9 means; the whole world is deceived, and nobody is excluded.

A number that no human could count is saved; that's great news for humanity, it means MORE are saved! And no group of believers can shorten that number which cannot be counted; it means it should not be counted, should not be limited, should not be reduced.

I am not a Universalist on any level, but label me however you have a need to; such is you're way. I am not a member of any Universalist movement. Or any other. I believe in the word of God, and whatever human you are willing to condemn, the word of God reveals to me that God is not willing that they would perish; and that expressed will of God is enough for me. I know Christians express things as you have, always willing to state that not all will be saved, but I am so glad that human salvation is not in the hands of Christians, or unbelievers would be surely doomed.

Bcbsr, the ONLY reason WHY there are few who find the gate, is because right now, only few are even called and chosen to even see the gate. Few are called, few are chosen, few find the gate, that parable is no reason to condemn someone.

To Shiloh, my quote response must not work for this site, but I am not a Universalist; although I agree with the ones who believe all humans will be saved. But I do not agree with all Universalist doctrines, I don't believe in all of anyones doctrines. I believe in the word of God, and its growing salvation. I believe in 1 Tim. 2:6, where Jesus gave himself " A Ransom for ALL." I know many Christians here will persecute me for believing in this verse wholeheartedly, but I see its incredible range of Salvation; if he gave himself for all, then that same all can be saved. And God WANTS that all to be saved, so what some Christians want is not important to me; its what God wants that I trust in. That is the gospel I see, it explains the heart of God to me; everyone is included, no matter if they have Received Christ or not. Christians like to think they have " Received Christ" on their own, of their own choice and own righteousness; its a type of " Self glory" that they merit themselves with, thus it becomes easy for that " Receiving Christ" to be a judgment that they now place on the backs of unbelievers as a " Demand for salvation", when salvation is really free, with no reception as a requirement. In my view, a human cannot even " Work up the ability to receive Christ on their own will", but Christians think they can. My belief is in the word of God, which clearly states in John 3:27, " A man can " Receive nothing", ( including receive Christ), unless it be GIVEN him from heaven.' No human can receive Christ unless the Father draws them, John 6:44. Again, please forgive me for seeing a greater salvation which does not exclude people who have not received Christ; I stand for their salvation, and the bible does as well. They have hope; they have the Love of God. No Christian can remove their salvation from them.

I understand my belief encounters problems , mostly among Christians. I am quite sorry for that, but I love the word of God and its tremendous salvation; it actually reveals more salvation than I had first seen, so excuse me if I do not focus on the limited Atonement that others so readily see. I see Rom. 5:18 and its great inclusive salvation;" Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation, ( now this much the average Christian can strangely all see so clearly; they can see the condemnation and accept it), even so, ( even so means " there is another side), by the Righteousness of the one free gift came upon ALL MEN justification of Life!" Oh, glory! Strangely the second part is not so easy to see. The SAME " ALL MEN", are now freely GIVEN Justification to live with God, but WHY? Why are all these :" dirty unbelievers" now justified? Because of Christ Righteousness! By Jesus sacrifice all sinners are now justified before God! This is incredible awesome total loving grace from God! This is giving more salvation to humanity. And please, excuse me for showing this verse. I know it does not " Fit into the short sighted scheme of salvation being taught here." But I thank God, through Jesus Christ, its in the bible, or I could not show it. Peace.

The books in the bible are not wrong, just the limited way we have been taught to interpret it. We have been taught to limit God's salvation; its inbred in our understanding. It does not matter to me how many Christians claim that all cannot be saved, the word of God claims differently; in Luke 3:6 " And ALL FLESH shall see the Salvation of God." Again the bible reveals MORE salvation than Christians are willing to see. But the hope for the salvation of the world, comes from the bible, it does not come from Christianity or religion. This kind of world hope and salvation is not invested in what religion believes it; it was invested in Christ; and all of humanity will see this glorious salvation.

I understand you have a desire to question my salvation, to riddle my personage with proof and ID; but Angels4u, allow me to say that my salvation does not depend on how I answer the questions of another believer, because I already know if they don't like something, they condemn it. Jesus is the Savior of the world, no matter how Christians seek to question the world or other believers, Jesus has been sent to save it. In 1 John 4:14, " And we have seen and do testify that the Father has sent the Son " To be the Savior of the World!" God sent Jesus here to save everybody, not just those Christians approve of. And this is GREAT news for the world! Its MORE salvation, because Jesus is not being picky, he came to seek and save all the unrighteous unbelievers that religion looks so often to condemn. For him to be the " Savior of the World", then he must save the world; oh how good of a news that is for unbelievers! That's way more salvation than I had first believed.

Its so, so interesting; you start talking about " More Salvation", and some believers actually take issue with it. Wow! As if more salvation is a negative thing or something??

To me Jesus is the " Savior of the World." And increased Salvation means its more, way more salvation than most believers have limited it to.

Well I disagree, the book of Revelations is slap full of how God will " Compel this earth"; in fact, he will " Impale it!' I don't know where believers get this idea that God will not compel humans to believe. In fact, let me share with you this Holy Vow made by God himself, his only Holy Vow he made to himself in scripture. And its quite compelling; in Isaiah 45:23, " I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return to me void, that to me, EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue shall swear to me!" Compelling! Simply compelling! And again it is also MORE salvation here, than I have seen in most believing churches and what they teach combined! God has SWORN, by his own holiness, that to him, every single human being will swear alligence to him and every human will bow to him; oh the hope of salvation here is GREATLY increased for humanity. Its incredible! And I know many believers will fight against this great salvation. Its more grace than I have ever imagined.

My point is that I am finding more salvation in the bible, and I could not find it if it were not there. In my view, people who do not accept Christ, NEED salvation; they don't " Need to be dismissed from it by believers." But so many believers look at how sinners and unbelievers " Do not accept Christ", and they are ready to " Write off their salvation." I am not like that, I see way too much " Hope in Christ", and I refuse to write off unbelievers; because unbelief did not stop me. In Luke 5:32 Jesus himself taught that he did NOT come to call the righteous, ( or believers who " Accept him"), but he came to bring sinners, ( or unaccepting unbelievers), to repentance." I see " More Salvation" in what Jesus taught here. I mean certain believers can treat themselves as being special and mist treat unbelievers, if that is their desire; but I see MORE salvation for unaccepting unbelievers, because its there for them in scripture. Jesus came here for them.

I am beginning to see " More Salvation" in scripture than I had first thought was there. But the more of that I see, strangely, the more I see many believers are against it. In example, in Job 23:13, its obviously referring to God, "But he is of one mind and who can turn him? And what his soul desires, that he does." Well now, nothing strange here, nothing that would rile the feathers of some believers. Its just saying that God is of one mind, and who can turn him from what he purposes. It plainly states that God does whatever he desires to do. Okay, so no bone crushing crusaders would be against this verse, but boy, if you combine it with 1 Tim. 2:3-4, and the " Mileage of Salvation is significantly increased", many believers start having a problem with so much salvation. Job states that God gets what he desires; here in 1 Tim. 2:3-4 it explains what God desires;" For this is Good and Acceptable in the sight of our Savior, who " Desires ALL men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." God desires all humans to be saved, and he gets what he desires. The " Increase in Salvation " here is simply incredible, and it states that this increased Salvation, is both " Good and Acceptable" to God our Savior. I wonder why this increased Salvation is not good and unacceptable to many believers? Its like they think God does " Not" get what he wants. Interesting dynamic here , one that if you believe it, it could get you frowned on by some believers, for desiring too many to be saved. Or believing it. Yet its right there in scripture. And I like the increased Salvation.

Myself.

Well I disagree. I know some may not like this, but even the churches of God are not immune to deception. My view on this is one thing, but if you like the bible, trust it, then consider what Jesus himself said about several different stages of HIS church in Rev. 2:4, Ephesus " Lost their first Love", a serious deception. Pergamos was doing things, Rev. 2:15, that Jesus Hated! Jesus own church doing things he hated. Jesus had things against the church called Thyatira, Rev. 2:20. You suggest the " Final " word is protected, well in Rev. 3:20, the " Final stage" of the church of God is seriously deceived; the Laodicea era; they are so bad off, Jesus is NOT even " In" the church, but its STILL a church of God. Jesus is on the " Outside knocking", meaning he is not IN this church. He's trying to get in. But they are all wrapped in the " Prosperity influence", Rev. 3:17, and Jesus calls HIS church here" wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked!" That's some serious name calling by Jesus here; and its describing a church of his.