@Daniel Marsh

At the time of Jesus and long time ago going back to Egypt people had flat breads with olive oil and herbs and garlic and zucchini types of vegetables. 

3 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Symbolic Equitation ???

equitation

noun

eq·ui·ta·tion ˌe-kwə-ˈtā-shən 

 

: the act or art of riding on horseback

Thank you, the word should have been "equation". 

@Vine Abider

You are indeed a good  brother and you are not prejudice. 

On 3/24/2024 at 6:54 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Yes, I understand. It gets confusing. There are a few schools of thought on this.  Some say that Passover and Feast of Unleavened bread overlap each other making Passover as the first day and regarded as a Sabbath. Then there are other schools of thought that say the first day of Unleavened Bread is the high holiday treated like a Sabbath.  Today most Jews treat Passover and Feast of Unleavened bread as one event starting on the 15th of Nisan through 22nd.  So now throw in the Preparation day as spoken in the gospel as when Jesus was crucified and it gets even more confusing.  Sabbaths have preparation days, so was the NT authors calling the Passover a preparation day?  Then on top of all this if you throw in the ancient Hebrew Luner calendar which is different from the current Jewish Calendar it gets even more confusing.  Some people celebrate Passover based on ancient Hebrew Luner Calendar vs. the current Jewish Calendar and have completely different dates for Passover.

I try to bring clarity to the issues at hand and I put the emphasis according to the introductions in Leviticus.

And you also brought my attention there about the day starting at twilight time which the time of the sunset at that time of the at about seven o'clock. 

What they were following that specific time is important and we should start that they were Celebrating according to the book of Leviticus for it was a big thing that they all do the same thing on the first day of the Unleavened Bread which the 15th and which is distinguish from the 14th and the 16 but not the 21st the seven day of the Unleavened Bread. 

The 15th and the 21st were High Holidays even though they were treated the same as the Sabath Day in that no work was done and Holy unto the Lord but it has its special propose as those two days were two of the four High Holidays in the Calendar the other two were in Autumn.

This is the question we are looking from what we gave in the scriptures on what day of the week was the first day of the Unleavened Bread. Can we find this out from what we have in the scriptures. 

Because there is a lot of arguments about the specific year and the day of the week because every year the day of the week is different the day of the month it is always the fifteen but not the day of the week.  

To say Sabbath it has the meaning a day dedicated to the Lord, no work and for the specific propose for that day as it is written in the book of Leviticus. 

Jesus celebrated the Passover do we have any reason to say that this was not the set day for the Passover and perhaps we can begin to look as if the Passover supper was eaten at what time of the 14th of Nissan or Abib. 

That day the 14th it started at the beginning of the twilight for that day at sunset but still there wa light for about half hour as usual after sunset and before sunrise.  

What do you think when the people were looking forwards to the Passover supper would they have a regular dinner before sunset on the 13th or looking forwards to the Passover supper they would wait to have the Passover supper after a few hours of the sunset..and it seems that what Jesus and the disciples did because later on the took a walk they sang hymns on the way to the Garden of Gethsemane where Jesus was praying and the disciples fall asleep. It was night at that time within the twilight and Judas went out to meet them before the end of the twilight or before the sunrise. They aproch Jesus and the disciples carrying torches and lanterns for light. A lot earlier than than the time when the rooster crow at the time Peter denied that he was the disciple of Jesus Christ, just before the Sunrise. On the same day Jesus ate the Passover with his disciples and Peter looked at Jesus when the rooster crow. This is the same day Jesus was Crucified. 

2 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Agree completely that these things should not put up a barrier for us to witness to others, and that the Lord can use these things . . . He can use anything and often does!  My comment is about how many times these things (Easter bunnies, eggs & Santa Clause) are mentioned in the bible. These things are (at least) leaven to the pure word of God, which leaven was brought in by man.  Unsaved ones may then focus on these extemporaneous things and not see anything whatsoever concerning the gospel of Christ.

And perhaps that is fine for those outside the church. Paul actually tells us not to judge things outside the church.  But Easter bunnies, colored eggs and Santa Clause are things many Christian groups embrace in some way - these things, in and of themselves, do little to nothing to further the good news of Christ in my opinion.

Jesus teach people from the things around them as the things around fishermen and around Shepherds and agriculture. And their customs in their Nation. 

I do not think that Jesus would object to other nations culture to be used for Symbolic use they way he did. Because he knew that the Gospel will be preached in deferent cultures and people having their culture they will be invited to believe. As they are saturated with their culture because that's what they know. And everything takes time and Paul knew that very well. 

19 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Your days are still off.   

First I would like to say, Its funny how early today you were defending Good Friday as the day Jesus died and then rose  before Sunday morning which is less than 1.5 days in the grave to this new view and now act like you are a subject matter expert on this topic.  lol

Being that Jesus was crucified on the preparation day (13th of Nisan) before Passover (14th of Nisan) and was placed into the tomb BEFORE the sun went down in order to avoid defiling the high sabbath/Passover day.  (We know that Jesus died around 3pm aka ninth hour) Therefore, Jesus was placed in the tomb somewhere between 3pm and sunset.  Had to be before sunset to avoid defiling the high Sabbath. 

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away. [Jhn 19:31 KJV]

This would mean on the evening of 16th of Nisan(Sat/Sabbath) before sunset would be the 3rd full day and would be the day he rose from the grave, because when the women who brought spices to the tomb on Sunday before sunrise said he was not there meaning the resurrection had already happened before they arrived.

 

Hello @Jedi4Yahweh 

I have come to understand that we need to established a common platform before we begin to discuss, we should agree on the basic information from the book of Leviticus. 

From the book of Leviticus the Passover is on the 14th day of the first month of the Jewish religious Calendar which begins at the end of March or at the beginning of April. Spring in the Northern Emespher of the earth, and Cannan was located in the Northern Emespher and it was the beginning of Spring. 

Passover is on the 14th of Nissan the first month of the Leviticus Calendar. But not  always on the same day of the week. And following the Passover is the first day of the Celebration of the Unleavened Bread which last seven days. 

The first day of the Unleavened Bread Holidays is the day after the Passover Holiday the 15th day of the first month Nisan or Abib. 

While the 14th the Passover day is not a HIGH HOLIDAY THE FIRST DAY THE OF THE UNLEAVENED BREAD HOLIDAY IS 15TH IS A HIGH HOLIDAY.  

In the book of Leviticus the 1st and the last day of the Unleavened Bread Holidays are HIGH HOLIDAYS. THEY ARE THE TWO HIGH HOLIDAYS in spring and the other two HIGH HOLIDAYS are in the Fall. 

The First Day of the feast of Unleavened Bread the 15th of Nissan is a High HOLIDAY and is treated like any Sabbath like no work or anything else was allowed to be done. From the book of Leviticus we can know what was the special things that took place on that day that they did not take on the weekly Sabbath day. 

On 3/24/2024 at 11:09 AM, Vine Abider said:

Sorry you took some offence - I was merely trying to point out the silliness of things like eggs, rabbits and Santa Claus being incorporated into these celebrations.

It not about me that matter, and because I am thick skin it does not mean that I should remain silent on this matter. 

There a lot of Christians even dedicated ones who allowed their children to participate in the kind of activities many Christians do not approve but that does not mean there is no value and room for teaching within those customs. 

Some believers participate and see something they can be communicated about Jesus relevant to our faith. And others who are not in the Christian faith participate with their children with their reasons and some they participate just for the fun of it, as they are inosent and outdoors activities, spring activities when earth is rejuvenate in the North part but in the South part they are getting ready to welcome the Autum. How strange it is that all the people even in the south part of the Earth they are getting ready to celebrate the Christian Passover. That has nothing to do with the Spring in the south Emespher of the earth waiting for the Fall when everything is changing in the opposite way as in the North. There Symbolic equations that can be made the subject of discussion among the people who participate in those activities and many can benefit to understand about what Jesus has accomplished in his mission and many can become interested to look into that later and accept an invitation to visit a church.  Christians should be encouraged to participate because it is an opportunity for a gentle way to reach others even others from other countries about the good news. Like brother @backontrack said; there are a lot  opportunities to introduce others to the Gospel as things happen around us. Somethings we may do not like, may also be doors open for evangelism. 

14 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Your days are still off.   

First I would like to say, Its funny how early today you were defending Good Friday as the day Jesus died and then rose  before Sunday morning which is less than 1.5 days in the grave to this new view and now act like you are a subject matter expert on this topic.  lol

Being that Jesus was crucified on the preparation day (13th of Nisan) before Passover (14th of Nisan) and was placed into the tomb BEFORE the sun went down in order to avoid defiling the high sabbath/Passover day.  (We know that Jesus died around 3pm aka ninth hour) Therefore, Jesus was placed in the tomb somewhere between 3pm and sunset.  Had to be before sunset to avoid defiling the high Sabbath. 

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away. [Jhn 19:31 KJV]

This would mean on the evening of 16th of Nisan(Sat/Sabbath) before sunset would be the 3rd full day and would be the day he rose from the grave, because when the women who brought spices to the tomb on Sunday before sunrise said he was not there meaning the resurrection had already happened before they arrived.

 

Thank you for the post. I have to study it. Earlier I spoke about something and later was seeking to corect my thinking.

Now I need to carefully study.

2 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Your days are still off.   

First I would like to say, Its funny how early today you were defending Good Friday as the day Jesus died and then rose  before Sunday morning before sunrise which is less than 1.5 days in the grave to this new view and now act like you are a subject matter expert on this topic.  lol

Being that Jesus was crucified on the preparation day (13th of Nisan) before Passover (14th of Nisan) and was placed into the tomb BEFORE the sun went down in order to avoid defiling the high sabbath/Passover day.  (We know that Jesus died around 3pm aka ninth hour) Therefore, Jesus was placed in the tomb somewhere between 3pm and sunset.  Had to be before sunset to avoid defiling the high Sabbath. 

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away. [Jhn 19:31 KJV]

This would mean on the evening of 16th of Nisan(Sat/Sabbath) before sunset would be the 3rd full day and would be the day he rose from the grave, because when the women who brought spices to the tomb on Sunday before sunrise said he was not there meaning the resurrection had already happened before they arrived.

 

I am not ready to deal with it now. Tomorrow I will. 

2 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

We don't know for a 100% what calendar they used for certian.  Historians say they would have most likely used the Roman calendar system since they were under roman rulership but may have also used the Jewish calendar for certain internal events same as they due today.  

 

They used their Religious Levitical Calendar 100% sure it cannot be otherwise because it was also their religious Calendar and sets the Starts of their Sabath and their Religious Holidays.  Religiously were following the Calendar in the book of Leviticus. It had nothing to do with their religion the Roman or Egyptian Calendar.  We when we celebrating the Christian Passover of Jesus Christ the Slain Lamb of God we follow the Passover of the Jews with a Christian twist that Jesus Christ is the Lamb of our Passover. And they Christians called it Pasha and still called it Passha till today but the west as in England the English who were evangelige the seven Century and the Germans also to be different to trick the still Idolatrers to attend and learn about the passion of Christ. 

The Saxxons call it Easter because it was a Celebration from the religion which came from the East. They did not want to name it Passha but they call it that when at first were converted to Catholics. 

Later on they and the Germas across their Iland wanting to become independent and split fron the Catholic church they change many things to create a uniqueness and formed their own Bishops. The Anglican church split from Rome and the Lutheran and other groups. 

23 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

It was not based on a specific time as you say but based on when the sun went down.  That time changes throughout the season.  The sun does not go down at the same time each day.  During time people did not have personal watches.

 

I got the days wrong, this is one of the earliest post which I revisited and the 16th is for Sunday the 15th for Saturday and the 14th for the Passover day that makes the 13th the preparation day which that year was Thursday. Begins at sunset on Wednesday. At about 12 hours on Thursday at about 6am our time we have the sunrise of Thursday day and after twelve hours at 6:00 pm on Thursday at sunset Thursday ends the preparation day ends and Friday begins the 14th of Nissan the Passover day. After 24 hour at 6:00 pm our time, about, the 15th day of Nissan begins the Sabath Day which ends on the Sunset on the Sabath Day and Sunday stars at that time at 6:00 pm,  about. Always six hours before our time at 12:00 midnight when the New Calendar day starts. Always our calendar day starts in April six hours, about later than them at 12:00 midnight. 

9 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

I would not get too hung up on when the start of a day begins because even the NT writers did not follow evening starts a new day.  See the following scripture

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. [Mat 28:1 KJV]

The passage says that sunrise was the start of a new day.

The passage says that they were about twelve hours on the 16 day of Nissan which it is the day after the Sabbath day, on the first day of the week,which is Sunday.  They kept their time and not ours. From the time Jesus was crucified they had high Holidays which lasted two days one for the Passover Thursday the 14th of Nissan and then Sabbath the 15th of Nissan Sunday the 16th of Nissan.  The Calendar is not correct to say Sunday the 17th and Saturday the 16th and Friday the Nissan Day the 15th and preparation the 14th definitely one day wrong ahead of the Jewish Calendar. 

46 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

These is how it goes:

13th of Nissan: (Wed) Preparation Day also the day he was crucified and placed in the tomb that evening.  Passover lambs were slaughtered on the day of preparation.

14th of Nissan: (Thurs) Passover day of celebration | (High Sabbath) Passover evening would have been the first full day in the tomb.

15th of Nissan: (Friday) the women go buy spices to anoint Jesus body but waited until after the normal weekly Sabbath to go to the tomb (Luk 23:5) | Friday evening 2nd full day of Jesus being in the tomb.

16th of Nissan: (Sat/Sabbath) the women rested | Sabbath evening would have been the 3rd full day in the tomb and Jesus would have been resurrected on the evening of the Sabbath. 

17th of Nissan: (Sunday) the women show up to the tomb with spices on Sunday morning but Jesus was not there he had already been resurrected the night before.

 

Preparation day starts at sunset of Wednesday at about 6:pm according to their Calendar but according to their calendar is the beginning of Thursday the Preparation day.  April. And runs for 24 hours till the end of Friday the at 6:00 pm the beginning of the Sabbath day which the 15th of Nissan Day. And then 24 hours at sunset on the Sabath Day which the 16 the beginning of Sunday. 

You are right the Calendar is not precise it is incorrect it failed to distinguish that the new day starts at the sunset of the previous day.

From our calendar there is an overlap from 6:00 to midnight we still have Wendsday but they are six hours onto Thursday.  Thank you for discussing it and for your persistence.  

After sunset on the 14 of Nissan the specific time the 14 day starts at sunset on the end of Preparation day.  

That makes the Calendar correct to a tee. 

It said Nissan 14 at sunset of the end of Preparation day at about 6:pm in 

Sabath Day is the 16 beginning from 6:pm on Friday to 24 hours to 6:00 pm on Saturday when Sunday starts the 17 day of Nissan. 

Friday the 15th ends the time Sabath Day begins at 6:00 pm on Friday. 

And Friday the Passover day  starts the time the Thursday the 14th ends at 6:00 pm our time on Thursday the beginning of twilight time. (From sunset to sun rise) their days began at Sunset. This is the beginning of the 14 of Nissan at the Sunset on Thursday evening that makes the Preparation day to begin 24 hours before that from 6:00 pm on Wednesday to 24 hours 6:00 pm on Thursday evening at sunset the beginning of the twilight time of the Passover.  The calendar is correct. With the Leviticus day time. 

The day begins at sunset and for 24 hours. 

Nissan the 14 Friday begins at 6:00 pm on Thursday and twenty four hour before that is the Preparation day. Six hours before is 12 noon time another six hours before is 6:00 suppose Sunrise. This is twelve hours in the Preparation day another six hours before is midnight for us for Wednesday to Thursday. Now we need six more hours to complete 24 for the Preparation day to know when it starts and that will be from midnight to 6 o' clock or 6:00 pm Wednesday the beginning of the Preparation day. A day is 24 hours. And will end on 6: pm or sunset on Thursday the Preparation day with the sunset on Thursday the Passover starts the 14th of Nissan Starts the beginning of twilight at sunset. To see the Calendar correct needs to see it with the beginning of the day the 14th at the twilight the beginning of the twilight that is the end of the Preparation day at twilight. 

We start at midnight but they start the day 6 hours earlier at 6:pm at that time of the year the sunset could be around 7:pm. 

4 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Even that calendar is slightly wrong.  The Passover is starts on the 14th of Nissan so the Preparation day would be the day before which would be the 13th of Nissan.

'The LORD'S Passover is on the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight. [Lev 23:5 AMP]

 

Twilight is the period 

 In its most general sense, twilight is the period of time before sunrise and after sunset. 

A definition of twilight meaning, I am not sure what is the definition of twilight in the book of Leviticus. 

It has been an interesting and building discussion, and thank you, I got to understand a lot of things, clarity is important. Thanks again. 

1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You make a point and thank you for that and that's what I found from making a search. 

Jesus Was Crucified on the Day of Preparation for the Passover

April 2	Nissan 14	Day of Passover preparation
April 3	Nissan 15	Passover; Feast of Unleavened Bread, begins
April 4	Nissan 16	Sabbath
April 5	Nissan 17	First day of the week

Then you are right. The preparation day was Thursday that week because Friday was the Passover and the beginning of the Feast of the Unleavened Bread and then we have the Sabbath and the first day of the week which is Sunday.  Jesus was crucified at the end of the preparation day which was Thursday and before the sunset or 6 pm with our Calendar and when did he died some time there after. 

Then we have three nights and three days Sunday early in the morning.  

Friday night and Friday day, Saturday night and Saturday day and Sunday night and Sunday day, early in the morning. Thank you for helping me to look into that and made the search. 

10 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

That would make Jesus statement false for saying he would be dead and buried 3 day and 3 nights...and it does not matter if your following the Jewish definition of a day that starts at sundown or current day that starts at midnight. You still need three days and three nights.

By way I don't believe Jesus was crucified on Friday but on the Preparation day before the Passover which would have been on a Wednesday or Thursday based on the Jewish calendar for that year. The first day of the Passover is treated like a Sabbath meaning their is a Preparation day prior to the first day of Passover.  

 

You make a point and thank you for that and that's what I found from making a search. 

29 minutes ago, JohnD said:

The one memorial Jesus actually commissioned until he returns is his death (Passover Seder).

Otherwise, if we wanted to keep holidays that actually point to Jesus we would keep the Jewish high

holy days.

The disciples were Galillians and were Celebrating their religious Calendar Holidays the same as the Jews and those Celebrations mark historical events of their history.  Passover was one of them when they were Celebrating their exodus from Egypt and the Passover of the Angel of death over them and did not touch them.

Eventually had included the hope that the Messiah will come on that Day, A Deliverer just like Moses who will deliver them from the Roman captivity. 

Jesus told the disciples that from now on you will celebrate the Passover in a different way or with a different meaning and instant of hoping that the Messiah will come to deliver us from the Roman Captivity as God had sent Moses to deliver them from Pharaoh.

The disciples began to Celebrate the Passover from that time on with a different meaning at exactly what Jesus said and then did that he will died and shed the blood of the New Covenant for the forgiveness of our sins and how it has come to pass and how he died and God raised him from the dead and glorified him in Heaven and gave him the Heavens for his inheritance and for every one who believes in him.  This what the believers in Jesus Christ began to Celebrate the Jewish Passover in this way on the same day as the Jewish Passover and they call it Pasha a short for Passover to comunicate that they Celebrate the Passover in the same day as the Jews but with the new meaning that the Lamb of God was Jesus Christ and they are part of him the New Covenant Jesus Christ brought in who open the way to Heavenly Inheritance in Jesus Christ.  

1 hour ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Because Jesus had to be dead and buried for 3 full days according to his own words: 3 days and 3 nights (For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. [Mat 12:40 KJV]) and not partial days as you seem to suggest.  So according to easter tradition he was placed in the tomb on Friday evening, so Saturday evening would be the first full day, Sunday evening the second full day, Monday evening the 3rd full day. 

 

 

I welcome your comments. 

And you should consider that Jesus was raised on the third day and not after the third day if not then it should have said that he was raised on the forth day. 

When it says on the third day ( bear with me) it should be the day after the end of their religious Holidays and the day after the end of the Sabath Day is Sunday. 

Jesus died on the preparation day and the Friday is called the preparation day because it is the day they were preparing for the Sabath Day because they cannot do many things on the Sabath Day they can do on the day before the Sabath and on the day after the Sabath Day.  

Jesus spent three days and two nights according to the Jewish religious Calendar when each day starts at Sunset. For this reason we cannot count the Friday night because it had already pass because Jesus died on the last hours of Friday according to Jewish religious Calendar which in our calendar was Friday late afternoon. In the Roman calendar we have Friday night and Saturday night and Sunday night.  We also have Friday day and Saurday day and Sunday early in the morning. As it is with our Calendar. If we could consider it according to the Calendar of all other Nations Romans and Greek but the Nations of Israel who had their own Religious Calendar and the day started at sunset and finished after a 24 hours on sunset the beginning of the sunset.

With the Roman time keeping we have tree nights and three days. 

On 3/21/2024 at 10:22 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Then add in the fact that Jesus could not have been raised on easter Sunday morning given the following:  If he was crucified on good Friday and buried that night.  That would make Saturday night the first full day in the tomb.  Sunday night would be the 2nd full day in the tomb.  Monday night would be the third full day in the tomb.  

Otherwise that would make the following quote from Jesus inaccurate:

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. [Mat 12:40 KJV]

 

 

Why don't begin to count from Friday as the first day because he died before the start of Saturday. And he was raised Sunday. Three days, their days started at six in the evening. Jesus died three hours before the end of Friday and after 24 hour at 6 in the evening Sunday started and at about down on Sunday Jesus was raised from the dead. If you want to know the specific time of his resurrection need to asked the Roman soldiers who kept watch and witness the resurrection.  They were not there when the women arrived. We only are told that early in the morning when they women arrive there the tomb was empty. 

On 3/21/2024 at 10:01 PM, Vine Abider said:

I'm with you bro!  Here's a wild idea: Perhaps someone could come up with an all-inclusive pagan symbol/entity for all the holidays.  This would combine rabbits, eggs, a fat man in a red suit, etc.  Then throw in some Halloween weirdness - what would that look like? 

Is there anything else that should be thrown in for good measure?  (@enoob57 perhaps you could come up with something creative along those lines)

I don't understand why you like to make jokes for the Pasover Holiday. The Muslim people they respect other people's religious Holidays and most of them they do not make jokes like that. But then you are not alone in this.

Don't you know that Jesus told the disciples to continiou celebrating the Passover but with a new twist. The Jewish believers never stopped celebrating the Passover together with the ethnic believers who joined them and they wanted to experience the last supper Jesus had with the disciples and the good news of his resurrection and of course it must have included his death on the Cross. Without the story of his death on the Cross how can we celebrate the resurrection. 

5 hours ago, Ghostdog said:

sorry i was in a bit of a hurry when i posted this. so i read this passage as nobody can hear Gods voice and live so he has to use the holy spirit to communicate with us kind of like a buffer.

The scripture you brought up from the Old Covenant described what took place in the Sinai desert by the Sinai mountain, the mountain of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who indeed spoke to them from amidst the smoke and fire and thunder that shook the whole mountain and all the congregation of Israel heard him and got so afraid that the said to Moses that is better that he speaks with you and you tell us what he wants from us. 

This is telling that they heard the voice of God in this specific situation as the scripture in Deuteronomy and lived. 4:33 the answer is yes the whole congregation of Israel heard his voice under those sircumstances and soiled them selves (figuratively speaking) but lived. 

21 hours ago, Ghostdog said:

deut 4:33 amp

Did [any] people ever hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as you heard, and [still] live?

Caution this is from the old Covenant. 

The disciple John wrote the chapter one to help everyone  understand that we are not worshiping the God of the Old Testament and no one has the God of the Old Testament after the Cross of Jesus Christ. You heard what happened at the time of the death of Jesus Christ the curtain that protected the people from the presence of the Lord in the Holy place was torn twain, it's finished and this what Jesus said at the specific moment when he died and that's when the curtain was torn twain. 

We worship Jesus Christ who before his birth in Bethlehem was the "Word" in the Gospel of John chapter one. 

Jesus who who died as the Light of the Jews only or the old testament but not in the flesh and who was raised up as the Light of the whole world. As one and only Light for the whole world and in that statement the whole world but the dead were without the Light of the world. Because the Light of the world first shine his light in the underworld that's where Jesus Christ went right after his death on the Cross and then after three days the Light of the world shine for the first time in Jerusalem in the place where he was raised from the dead at the time He was raised from the underworld. 

First the Light of the world shown himself to Abraham and everyone who was their with him.

And then to the rest in the underworld. 

@backontrack

Thank for this post and your good and kind heart.

2 hours ago, Mr. M said:

That's it? Jesus' words were directed to Jews under the Old Covenant and not Gentiles? What about Hellenistic Jews that Paul converted?

What does that have to do with these others:

 

 

This is not about the message of salvation. It is about rightly dividing the word of truth as a believer, attaining full comprehension, and living with purpose of heart toward the Lord and His Body.

If you want to focus on this one passage, consider the wider context.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 

17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This applies to the whole world, not just Jews under the Law.

FYI, Israel ceased being under the Sinai covenant after the wilderness trek. The Lord renewed the covenant on the steppes of Moab with the second giving of the Law, what we call Deuteronomy. 

The series of teachings Moses gave over ten days were recorded and became the basis for the covenant, what is referred to as "the book of Moses".

While only the tablets of the testimony were kept in the Ark of the Covenant(and must be written on the heart), the Book of Moses was to be referenced and kept to remain in the land.

Greetings, @Mr. M

I am discussing the scriptures you posted, and I quoted your post that has a number of scriptures from different parts of the Bible wanted to prove that Jesus is the light of the world, which is that what the scriptures say and that's what I believe and have never said anything against that.

And it is good to show that Jesus is the light pf the world by scripture. Because Jesus said I am the Light, that light the Jews were waiting to come to the world. The Light of both the Jews and the Gentiles. And Jesus also said that he was the Light the Jews were celebrating at that festival, the festival of the Lights. What a big statement Jesus made that time, telling that he was their God and now is amongs them as a man AMEN 

And I said that God has helped us to understand that Jesus Christ is the light of the world. There is a difference between the Light of the Jews and the Light of the world which includes the Jews in that statement. 

Our discussion aims to show that the Jews are without the light of the world that they need the light of the world because without it are in total darkness. 

Of course they will claim that they have the light of God and they will try to argue that from the Torah. 

But the sign God gave them and not only for them because they were asking for a sign. It was that they had put to death on the Cross the Light of the world and at the time Jesus death when Jesus as he had said that he will descend in the heart of the earth in the place of the dead total darkness fell upon everyone including Jerusalem and the Temple and all the houses of the Jews and including everyone who followed the Sinai Covenant. 

And this is because as it happened and as it was prophesied that the light of the world will shine in the place that was in total darkness in the valley of death in the heart of the earth which we understand that Jesus is the light of the world and the Jews never had the light of the world or the light of the world never shine on the earth before it shine first in the place of the dead. 

FIRST THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD shined is the underworld and then at the resurrection it shine for the first time on the earth. Jesus Christ lived and died as the appointed light of the world to be. And the moment he died he went to the underworld as the light of the world. That's where first Jesus Christ went after his death on the Cross. And God showed us the shine of total darkness for three hours. This darkness included the Jews. That it was second by the curtain torn twain in the Temple that the Jews are without their light. That at that time they were without the Light of the Sinai Covenant that light it was gone from them and they were in total darkness. God showed them that were in total darkness and that their light was Jesus Christ their Lord God in the flesh and that's what John was preaching and he put it down in the Gospel of John chapter one.  

The whole earth was without any light from God for the very first time ever and that will never happen again. 

After three days symbolic to three hours of darkness the light of the Savior for the whole world shine on earth for the first time that's the time when Jesus Christ was raised from the dead. The darkness lasted only three days because on the third day Jesus Christ will be raised from the dead and began to shine on the earth as the light of the world for all people of the world. 

And forgiveness of sins in his name began to be preached in the whole world beginning with Jerusalem and continues to shine there after expanding in all parts of the earth. 

12 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

That's very strange, extremely strange. What do you mean " Just the one new man".

Peter the disciples of Jesus disagree with that and so do I. 

Are you saying something? Do you want to discuss Paul's statement?

12 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

  14 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Neither Jew nor Greek, Scythian, Barbarian or whatever in Christ, right? Just the one new man - HALLELUJAH!!!

What is this all about then?