St_Worm2

Both Greetings! I've always thought of "spiritual warfare" as a mostly defensive operation on the part of the saints, but I'm wondering if I need to revise my thinking about that? For instance, So, what say you? Offensive, defensive or both, and if it is the latter, do you believe that we are (or at least should be) principally engaged in an offensive or defensive operation (please explain why you believe what you do w/a verse or two in support, if possible). Thanks!! BTW, I always thought of "gates" as being defensive in nature, but the wording of Matthew 16:18 makes the gates of hell sound like it could be an offensive weapon of some sort instead, especially in translations like the NASB, NIV, and paraphrases like the NLT ("will not overpower it/the church" NASB and/or "will not conquer it/the church" NLT), though the AV's/NKJV's" translation, "the gates of hell ~shall not prevail~ against it (the church)" could certainly be understood as the "gates" being offensive too. There is much more concerning this topic that I'd like to discuss, but this seems like a good place to start, so please let me/us know what you think about all of this God bless you!! --David

The Screwtape Letters Chapter 2 II MY DEAR WORMWOOD, I note with grave displeasure that your patient has become a Christian. Do not indulge the hope that you will escape the usual penalties; indeed, in your better moments, I trust you would hardly even wish to do so. In the meantime we must make the best of the situation. There is no need to despair; hundreds of these adult converts have been reclaimed after a brief sojourn in the Enemy’s camp and are now with us. All the habits of the patient, both mental and bodily, are still in our favour. One of our great allies at present is the Church itself. Do not misunderstand me. I do not mean the Church as we see her spread out through all time and space and rooted in eternity, terrible as an army with banners. That, I confess, is a spectacle which makes our boldest tempters uneasy. But fortunately it is quite invisible to these humans. All your patient sees is the half-finished, sham Gothic erection on the new building estate. When he goes inside, he sees the local grocer with rather an oily expression on his face bustling up to offer him one shiny little book containing a liturgy which neither of them understands, and one shabby little book containing corrupt texts of a number of religious lyrics, mostly bad, and in very small print. When he gets to his pew and looks round him he sees just that selection of his neighbours whom he has hitherto avoided. You want to lean pretty heavily on those neighbours. Make his mind flit to and fro between an expression like “the body of Christ” and the actual faces in the next pew. It matters very little, of course, what kind of people that next pew really contains. You may know one of them to be a great warrior on the Enemy’s side. No matter. Your patient, thanks to Our Father below, is a fool. Provided that any of those neighbours sing out of tune, or have boots that squeak, or double chins, or odd clothes, the patient will quite easily believe that their religion must therefore be somehow ridiculous. At his present stage, you see, he has an idea of “Christians” in his mind which he supposes to be spiritual but which, in fact, is largely pictorial. His mind is full of togas and sandals and armour and bare legs and the mere fact that the other people in church wear modern clothes is a real—though of course an unconscious—difficulty to him. Never let it come to the surface; never let him ask what he expected them to look like. Keep everything hazy in his mind now, and you will have all eternity wherein to amuse yourself by producing in him the peculiar kind of clarity which Hell affords. Work hard, then, on the disappointment or anticlimax which is certainly coming to the patient during his first few weeks as a churchman. The Enemy allows this disappointment to occur on the threshold of every human endeavour. It occurs when the boy who has been enchanted in the nursery by Stories from the Odyssey buckles down to really learning Greek. It occurs when lovers have got married and begin the real task of learning to live together. In every department of life it marks the transition from dreaming aspiration to laborious doing. The Enemy takes this risk because He has a curious fantasy of making all these disgusting little human vermin into what He calls His “free” lovers and servants—“sons” is the word He uses, with His inveterate love of degrading the whole spiritual world by unnatural liaisons with the two-legged animals. Desiring their freedom, He therefore refuses to carry them, by their mere affections and habits, to any of the goals which He sets before them: He leaves them to “do it on their own”. And there lies our opportunity. But also, remember, there lies our danger. If once they get through this initial dryness successfully, they become much less dependent on emotion and therefore much harder to tempt. I have been writing hitherto on the assumption that the people in the next pew afford no rational ground for disappointment. Of course, if they do—if the patient knows that the woman with the absurd hat is a fanatical bridge-player or the man with squeaky boots a miser and an extortioner—then your task is so much the easier. All you then have to do is to keep out of his mind the question “If I, being what I am, can consider that I am in some sense a Christian, why should the different vices of those people in the next pew prove that their religion is mere hypocrisy and convention?” You may ask whether it is possible to keep such an obvious thought from occurring even to a human mind. It is, Wormwood, it is! Handle him properly and it simply won’t come into his head. He has not been anything like long enough with the Enemy to have any real humility yet. What he says, even on his knees, about his own sinfulness is all parrot talk. At bottom, he still believes he has run up a very favourable credit-balance in the Enemy’s ledger by allowing himself to be converted, and thinks that he is showing great humility and condescension in going to church with these “smug”, commonplace neighbours at all. Keep him in that state of mind as long as you can. Your affectionate uncle, Screwtape

Hello Ghostdog, I was submerged three times when I was baptized as an adult (once for each Member of the Godhead .. e.g. Matthew 28:19). As far as how long I was underwater each time I was submerged, well, I never felt the need to come up early to breathe (nor did I ever wish that I'd been wearing a SCUBA tank ;)). Finally, what do you mean by, "long enough to make sure that it (your baptism) took hold? ("took hold" of what, exactly?). Thanks! God bless you!! --David

No Scar? "For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake." Philippians 1:29 Hast thou no scar? No hidden scar on foot, or side, or hand? I hear thee sung as mighty in the land; I hear them hail thy bright, ascendant star. Hast thou no scar? Hast thou no wound? Yet I was wounded by the archers; spent, Leaned Me against a tree to die; and rent By ravening beasts that compassed Me, I swooned. Hast thou no wound? No wound? No scar? Yet, as the Master shall the servant be, And piercèd are the feet that follow Me. But thine are whole; can he have followed far Who hast no wound or scar? BY Amy Carmichael Missionary to orphans in India. She suffered much -- and bore much eternal fruit. Back in the 1920s, Amy rescued hundreds of orphaned children -- especially little girls that would be dedicated to Hindu gods for use in sexual temple rituals. By God's wonderful grace, some had miraculously escaped from such pagan slavery and were led to the Irish "mother" who lovingly cared for each child God sent her. In 1931 she prayed, “God, please do with me whatever you want. Do anything that will help me to serve you better.” That same day, she fell, suffering fractures that would cripple her for the rest of her life. Not one to be discouraged or bitter when faced with pain or persecution, Amy now had the opportunity to demonstrate God's faithfulness before a much larger "host" of witnesses. While her growing children had continual freedom to enter her bedroom and share their hearts with their beloved "mother," she now had the quiet times that allowed her to write books, poems, and letters that were translated and shared around the world. "Great is Thy faithfulness," O Lord! "Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross..." Hebrews 12:1-2 ~NO SCAR?

Hello D. Adrien, please elaborate a bit, as I'd like to make sure that I'm understanding the point that you're making (also, are you referring to St. Francis specifically, or to preachers, witnesses and missionaries in general, as those who fall short of the word that they are preaching?). If it is St. Francis, remember that he was an itinerant preacher/missionary who went from town to town to town, sometimes preaching in as many as five different cities/villages on the same day, to the people who lived in each of these places and, apparently, sometimes to their cows, too :) (he must have taken Mark 16:15 VERY literally) :) Thanks! God bless you!! --David

Hello D. Adrien, thank you for your reply and thoughts I agree with what you just said with a single exception, those of us who have been born again and justified, and who are now in Christ as a result (because we truly are being made less and less rotten and more and more Christlike throughout the balance of our lives here by God (principally), but also by the good/righteous influence of our fellow believers (especially those who are more mature in the faith than we are), because we end up walking with/being influenced by those who have spent their lives walking closely with and being influenced by Him The problem with the "apples" of this world is that while most appear to be healthy on the outside, they are already corrupt on the inside and therefore, beyond our help in their present state .. cf Luke 6:43-45. They can't be healed or made better somehow, because they/we are all born with an incurable disease of the heart. Instead, they need to be ~changed~ from the inside out (just like we were .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27) by the only One who can, the Great Physician. God bless you!! --David

Hello Neighbor, I'm going with "not". Judaism has had a problem since A.D. 70 since animal sacrifices can no longer offered by the Levitical priesthood to redeem the people of Israel and/or the individual Jew from their sins (so that God can/will forgive them) because 1. the Temple no longer exists and 2. no one knows who the Levites are anymore (as all of the records of who belonged to which Tribe were also lost in AD 70). So, what has been taught for centuries now (by "Rabbinic Judaism") is that in the place of the burnt offerings (that were always used for redemption and the forgiveness of sins in Israel, until AD 70), sins are now forgiven simply by confessing them and asking God to do so (the basis for this now traditional belief being found in a single verse .. 2 Samuel 12:13, when David confessed to the prophet Nathan and Nathan told him that God had forgiven his sins .. even though no animal sacrifice had been made, apparently). A couple of problems with this (with what Rabbinic Judaism teaches, that is) is, 1. why were the sacrifices EVER required to begin with, and 2. why did they continue from the time God forgave David until AD 70 if they were no longer necessary I've asked those questions several times and received no answer back from the Jews I've talked to, only consternation, and the belief that something must be wrong with me for even thinking that there might be a problem (with this particular Rabbinic teaching). God bless you!! --David

Matthew 5 14 “~You~ are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15 nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.” In this passage we have the Lord Jesus who is, ~THE~ "light of the world" .. e.g. John 8:12, telling us that ~we~ are the "light of the world". I find this thought to be very humbling (to say the least) every time I consider it. Lastly, here's a wonderful song by Kari Jobe about this passage called We Are (if anyone would like to listen to it :)).

Or as Missionary (to India) Amy Carmichael said in kind,

It seems to me that 1 Corinthians 15:33 has a teaching that is similar to Proverbs 13:20.

James 1 19 Everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; 20 for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.

Me too :D I guess I just couldn't resist (but I'll stop now). Wait, "Documentary"? Really?? YEAH, I ~KNEW~ it was all true!!

Or how about............................... Again, sometimes it's hard to recognize them, but other times, not so much

Hello LaurenMay, we already know that there is extraterrestrial life out there because of the aliens who are living among us, even now (though "intelligent" life might be a bit of a stretch in some cases). They are, of course, incognito, and part of a government coverup, but once you know what to look for, they're actually pretty hard to miss. Granted, some are harder to recognize than others are, but some are so easy that you'll wonder how you could have ever mistaken them for anything else (other than extraterrestrials, that is). For instance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

This is interesting too: What St. Francis of Assisi Didn’t Actually Say| National Catholic Register Go to the link at the top to read the rest of the article. God bless you!! --David

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And yet, this idea continues to be popular............ Quite the odd thing for such an amazingly active itinerant preacher/evangelist to say, yes, who not only travelled to/preached in multiple towns each day (as many as 5 different towns/villages on the same day), but who also took the time to preach to animals.

Isaiah 43 10 “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no Savior besides Me.”

Ecclesiastes 7 29 Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.

Who me? Yes you!! Hello and sorry, I won't do that again (but I just couldn't help myself) ;) Silliness aside, thank you for the important point that you just made! I agree that the church is often far from what it ought to be and needs to be today, but I continue to have hope because of the One to whom it, and we, all belong. Satan is powerful and active in all of our churches, which is why I believe that mature believers (both laity and clergy) who are part of a dead church need to stay, if at all possible and for as long as possible, to help get their church and congregation get back on their spiritual "feet" again (once it reaches the denominational level though, I'm not sure that staying will do much good). As for me personally, I have been blessed to be a part of several churches over the years that have many mature believers and regular, sound, expository preaching/teaching each week from the pastorate (though I am sad because I realize how unusual this is). Thanks again for joining in. I haven't read The Screwtape Letters for years, and it is a very interesting to do so again (in part because of the new POV that I have as a 39-year-old believer, rather than the POV that I had as a one-year-old the first time that I read this book). God bless you!! --David

Greetings everyone, I noticed that Lewis' book, The Screwtape Letters, has not been discussed here for quite some time, so I thought that I'd start a thread about it here in Spiritual Warfare. The Screwtape Letters is actually a collection of short stories by Lewis that were first read live on the radio by Lewis in the 1940's. They are obviously fictional stories but, at the same time, are useful in helping us gain a better understanding of what demons are up to in our lives and how to recognize their attacks for what they truly are, and that, far more quickly (at least, that was my experience after reading the book anyway). It's a true Christian Classic, of course, but a very unique one, as I believe that it is the only one that has ever been written from the demons POV (which is something that is, obviously, important to understand before reading it, since words like "Enemy" in this particular book, refer to God, instead of to Satan, for instance). So, be sure to take the time to read the intro(s) preface(s) before reading the book to get a better understanding .. the Annotated Edition explains much more than the other editions do, just FYI. Most of the stories are letters written from an older demon, "Uncle Screwtape" to younger demon (his apprentice and nephew) "Wormwood". You can read it online for free here, or get it from Amazon on Kindle for free here, but if you are willing to spend some $$, the "Annotated Edition" is a worthwhile purchase (because of all the additional notes from Lewis and others that are found in it .. which you can buy at Amazon here). If you've read it, please share any thoughts that you have about the book with us. Thanks! God bless you!! --David p.s. - in case you'd like to read a quick sample, here is the preface to the book, and chapter (or short story) #1 (from the free edition online). THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS by C. S. LEWIS Fellow of Magdalen College, Oxford TO J. R. R. TOLKIEN Preface I have no intention of explaining how the correspondence which I now offer to the public fell into my hands. There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight. The sort of script which is used in this book can be very easily obtained by anyone who has once learned the knack; but ill-disposed or excitable people who might make a bad use of it shall not learn it from me. Readers are advised to remember that the devil is a liar. Not everything that Screwtape says should be assumed to be true even from his own angle. I have made no attempt to identify any of the human beings mentioned in the letters; but I think it very unlikely that the portraits, say, of Fr. Spike or the patient’s mother, are wholly just. There is wishful thinking in Hell as well as on Earth. In conclusion, I ought to add that no effort has been made to clear up the chronology of the letters. Number XVII appears to have been composed before rationing became serious; but in general the diabolical method of dating seems to bear no relation to terrestrial time and I have not attempted to reproduce it. The history of the European War, except in so far as it happens now and then to impinge upon the spiritual condition of one human being, was obviously of no interest to Screwtape. Chapter 1 My dear Wormwood, I note what you say about guiding your patient’s reading and taking care that he sees a good deal of his materialist friend. But are you not being a trifle naïf? It sounds as if you supposed that argument was the way to keep him out of the Enemy’s clutches. That might have been so if he had lived a few centuries earlier. At that time the humans still knew pretty well when a thing was proved and when it was not; and if it was proved they really believed it. They still connected thinking with doing and were prepared to alter their way of life as the result of a chain of reasoning. But what with the weekly press and other such weapons we have largely altered that. Your man has been accustomed, ever since he was a boy, to have a dozen incompatible philosophies dancing about together inside his head. He doesn’t think of doctrines as primarily “true” or “false”, but as “academic” or “practical”, “outworn” or “contemporary”, “conventional” or “ruthless”. Jargon, not argument, is your best ally in keeping him from the Church. Don’t waste time trying to make him think that materialism is true! Make him think it is strong, or stark, or courageous—that it is the philosophy of the future. That’s the sort of thing he cares about. The trouble about argument is that it moves the whole struggle onto the Enemy’s own ground. He can argue too; whereas in really practical propaganda of the kind I am suggesting He has been shown for centuries to be greatly the inferior of Our Father Below. By the very act of arguing, you awake the patient’s reason; and once it is awake, who can foresee the result? Even if a particular train of thought can be twisted so as to end in our favour, you will find that you have been strengthening in your patient the fatal habit of attending to universal issues and withdrawing his attention from the stream of immediate sense experiences. Your business is to fix his attention on the stream. Teach him to call it “real life” and don’t let him ask what he means by “real”. Remember, he is not, like you, a pure spirit. Never having been a human (Oh that abominable advantage of the Enemy’s!) you don’t realize how enslaved they are to the pressure of the ordinary. I once had a patient, a sound atheist, who used to read in the British Museum. One day, as he sat reading, I saw a train of thought in his mind beginning to go the wrong way. The Enemy, of course, was at his elbow in a moment. Before I knew where I was I saw my twenty years’ work beginning to totter. If I had lost my head and begun to attempt a defence by argument I should have been undone. But I was not such a fool. I struck instantly at the part of the man which I had best under my control and suggested that it was just about time he had some lunch. The Enemy presumably made the counter-suggestion (you know how one can never quite overhear what He says to them?) that this was more important than lunch. At least I think that must have been His line for when I said “Quite. In fact much too important to tackle at the end of a morning”, the patient brightened up considerably; and by the time I had added “Much better come back after lunch and go into it with a fresh mind”, he was already half way to the door. Once he was in the street the battle was won. I showed him a newsboy shouting the midday paper, and a No. 73 bus going past, and before he reached the bottom of the steps I had got into him an unalterable conviction that, whatever odd ideas might come into a man’s head when he was shut up alone with his books, a healthy dose of “real life” (by which he meant the bus and the newsboy) was enough to show him that all “that sort of thing” just couldn’t be true. He knew he’d had a narrow escape and in later years was fond of talking about “that inarticulate sense for actuality which is our ultimate safeguard against the aberrations of mere logic”. He is now safe in Our Father’s house. You begin to see the point? Thanks to processes which we set at work in them centuries ago, they find it all but impossible to believe in the unfamiliar while the familiar is before their eyes. Keep pressing home on him the ordinariness of things. Above all, do not attempt to use science (I mean, the real sciences) as a defense against Christianity. They will positively encourage him to think about realities he can’t touch and see. There have been sad cases among the modern physicists. If he must dabble in science, keep him on economics and sociology; don’t let him get away from that invaluable “real life”. But the best of all is to let him read no science but to give him a grand general idea that he knows it all and that everything he happens to have picked up in casual talk and reading is “the results of modern investigation”. Do remember you are there to fuddle him. From the way some of you young fiends talk, anyone would suppose it was our job to teach! Your affectionate uncle, Screwtape

Hello @Marston, treading lightly, at least at first, can be important with family members and friends, so if I was you, I'd talk to her about what she posted on Facebook and why before saying anything to her about it. Her opener sounds like the old Campus Crusade for Christ opener for their tract called, "The Four Spiritual Laws" (which is one of their witnessing tools). It began with "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life". It's pretty much the same now under their new organization called "Cru" (and you can see it here online in .pdf if you'd care to, just scroll down a bit when you get there until you see what looks like the cover of a yellow Christian tract and that's it: FourSpiritualLaws.pdf The thing is, the Four Spiritual Laws presents the Gospel, of course, but it also tells people what the Gospel is a remedy for (why it is "necessary" and not just "nice", for instance, the Good News ~AND~ the bad news, which is something that seems impossible to get around in a presentation of the Gospel, at least it does to me anyway). Your niece doesn't do that in her Facebook post, she just presents some of the positive side of the Gospel (but she may have a reason for doing so, so ask her about it, about her friends' response to it, and about what she says to them when they do reply to her about it, things like that). Then you'll know how to best respond to her. Praying for you! God bless you!! --David p.s. - here's a quote from pastor and theologian A. W. Pink about this (about this new approach to evangelism and why he thinks that it is not a good idea). I think what he says is quite important, but it is rarely well-received for some reason (when compared to the responses that I've seen to most of his other famous quotes).

Jeremiah 31 3 The LORD appeared to us in the past, saying: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness.” Deuteronomy 33 27 The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms. He will drive out your enemy before you, saying, ‘Destroy him!’