seeking the lost

The dangers are clearly stated. You must not add to or take away from the writings of this book. To deny that which is to come is as dangerous as adding resurrections and raptures.

Looking for the rapture and looking for the coming of the Lord is not the same thing. First, Jesus is here. Second, when he comes he will first take out the tares and the wheat will remain. This is the conquering King wiping out all who do not weep and mourn over iniquity. Third, he will come as the Judge of all the earth. That will be the time that the dead in Christ are raised. It is only after the dead in Christ are raised that the rapture can occur.

The recreational rapture finding is very dangerous because the practice violates the word. The word is very clear in Rev.:22 Nothing May Be Added 17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely. 18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.… Most of the theories have to add or alter the time of the resurrection. Failure to pay attention to the curse was the problem of man from the beginning.

Yes, there are many theories. The rapture is a reality because the scripture does tell us of that event. The resurrection of the dead in Christ is the event that must precede the rapture. Jesus clearly identifies that time as the last day. The only time that could be without doing violence to the text is at the end of the thousand years. The purpose of the rapture is not to save from wrath but to take people away from the earth which is being melted with fervent heat and will be no more.

This is a very good answer. The question has a doctrine of absence at its base. what would Jesus do if He were here? The good news is that He is here.

It is not that complicated. Jesus was involved in all of these things that you mention. Jesus has full knowledge of these events and relates them to John. John relates these things to us. Jesus tells John, "this is the first resurrection". Because of the source and reliability of the source, I can with assurance say this is the first resurrection.

They were in the grave. That is why it is called being raised.

I can only go by the scripture. Revelation 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years.

No not at all. There are two resurrections. The first is at the end of the tribulation. This is a limited resurrection. The people raised are raised to reign on the earth. They do not go up for any length of time, like in a big u-turn. The second resurrection includes the rest of the dead. The time of the second resurrection is the time of judgment. A time that the books are opened and there is a separation of sheep and goats. It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment.

The dead in Christ are raised first then those who are alive and remain are caught up and changed in twinkling of an eye. The resurrection at the end of the thousand years is the time the dead in Christ are raised. This is according to the teaching of Jesus who taught that believers will be raised on the last day

My view is that many of the teachings of the rapture are demon inspired. Most of these doctrines require adding to the scripture or taking away from it. The demonic realm is very interested in driving man to be cursed. The word of the Lord is, do not add to the writings of this book or you will be cursed. The demons have deceived people with these words, God does not want you to suffer. The inspiration of demons then is to assist in helping to find where the exit is. The exit is the rapture. The rapture is connected with the resurrection which is yet future. No one should add resurrections or suppose that there is a rapture without the resurrection of the dead. The western Church is very interested in who can find the most raptures. Some teachers have identified as many as 16 raptures. I call it recreational rapture finding. Most of the world is in severe persecution already. Nothing May Be Added or Removed 18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

That is a stretch. The only thing this verse says is that the church observes communion, showing forth His death until He comes. The verse does not say that the coming is for any particular group. The Church is to remember the death of Christ until He comes.

Greetings I would encourage you not to call the rapture rubbish. Much of what is being debated on this site is based on doctrines of demons. There is a rapture and it comes at the end of the thousand years. That is the time that the dead in Crist are raised. There is a warning about adding to the writing but these doctrines take the liberty to add resurrections and raptures where ever they please. You are correct to point out that the tares, those planted by the evil one are taken out first. (looking forward to being left behind) Ezekiel 9 is a pattern of what will happen on that day of separation. There are many passages that indicate this very thing but those given to recreational rapture finding can not see the truth. I like your observation of the carcass. The carcass is buzzard bait.

I believe that each of these things will happen, 1) there will be a time of great trouble, 2)People will be delivered, and 3) there will be a resurrection of the dead. This being said they do not happen at the same time. The timeline cannot conflict with that which is revealed in Revelation. It is important not to add to the writings of this book.

Thy people shall be delivered does not equal a resurrection/rapture. The clarity of the time is given to John by Jesus. That revelation of Jesus does not agree with your interpretation of Daniel's revelation.

Those that are resurrected after the tribulation are not going up. They are raised to reign on the earth. There is no mention of them ascending or anyone else going up with them.

That statement neglects the statement of Revelation 20. This passage declares that there is a limited resurrection at the end of the tribulation and a second resurrection after the thousand years.

That is interesting. The world as we know it will pass away with fervent heat. The culmination will be the resurrection/rapture followed by judgment. This is the time of separating the sheep and the goats.

The two resurrections mentioned in Revelation 20 are different than you describe. The first resurrection is very specific only for those who have been beheaded. Revelation 20: 4, I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. There are many that are not included in this resurrection and are described as the rest of the dead. The rest of the dead includes many of "the dead in Christ." Those who believe in Jesus are raised on the last day as Jesus says. The last day is the day after which there are no other days. That is the day of judgment. That is the day that all stand before the throne and are judged. This is the time that the books are opened and separation happens. Sheep to the right goats to the left.

We look at the same text and see different things. Dealing with the text of Revelation 20 there are two resurrections identified. The second is the only one that includes those that are described as the rest of the dead. That is what I see in Dan. 12:2. This is the time of the Matthew 25 separation of sheep and goats. Sheep and goats parallel everlasting life and everlasting contempt. Jesus spoke of the resurrection of those who believe in Him and said it would be on the last day. John 6:44 KJV No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. The last day is at the end of the thousand years.

The time setting is when satan is loosed at the end of the thousand years. The and remain is that they have remained faithful. They have not succumbed to the second death. This is the time of the resurrection.

I understand your need to not have the people of God and the people of the evil one standing at the GWT. Notice the destiny of those who are being separated. 41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’ 46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Verse 46a goats eternal punishment, 46b sheep, righteous eternal life

Greetings Retrobyter, It is obvious that there are many different views of this time. As I look at the wheat and tares, I see a distinctive separation. The first taken out at the time of the harvest are the tares. I connect this with Malachi 4, Matt 3, and Revelation 14:14-19. I believe that this day will wipe out all people that do not fit into the wheat category. The thousand years will be inhabited by those who are categorically wheat. Concerning the coming of the Lord. 1] He is here. Rev. 1: 8“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty.. Do not neglect the "is". 2] He will come as a conquering king. This will be the time that the tares are taken out, and the grapes are CAST INTO THE WINEPRESS of his wrath. 3]He will come as judge of all the earth. This is at the end of the thousand years. All the dead are raised and the books are opened. That is the time of the separation of sheep and goats.

That is a very weak assumption. That they were not his does not say specifically that they are someone else sheep. When the separation is made on the last day The sheep will be those whose name is written in the book of life. Everyone is to give an account of what they have done. Humans are called sheep as an analogy, like sheep.

The second death not having no power over them refers to the time that satan is loosed for a period of time at the end of the thousand years. Satan will deceive many but will not be able to deceive those who have been raised to reign. All those that are deceived are those that have succumbed to the second death. The first resurrection as stated in Revelation 20 is for those who were faithful unto death. This does not include all that have named the name of Christ. The parentheses inform us of when all the rest of the dead will be raised. The second resurrection is at the end of the thousand years. This resurrection is described for us in Revelation 20. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. This is the time when the books are opened and all are judged by what they have done. The book of life is opened, and those not recorded in this book are cast into the lake. The fact that some are raised to everlasting life and some to damnation does not mean that they cannot be raised at the same time.