Mike 2

When The Son "sees" the father it is spiritual, through The Holy Spirit. Jesus often talked about spiritually "seeing" and "hearing".....understanding the spiritual meaning of the physical teaching. Many just don't "get it" Mat_13:13 That's why I speak to them in parables, because 'they look but don't see, and they listen but don't hear or understand.' Mat_13:15 for this people's heart has become dull, and their ears are hard of hearing. They have shut their eyes so that they might not see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.' Mar_4:12 so that 'they may see clearly but not perceive, and they may hear clearly but not understand, otherwise they might turn around and be forgiven.'" Luk_8:10 So he said, "You have been given knowledge about the secrets of the kingdom of God. But to others they are given in parables, so that 'they might look but not see, and they might listen but not understand.'" When we accept Christ and receive the Holy Spirit we start to see the spiritual significance of the world around us...we enter The Kingdom of Heaven.

There was the idea that sin was the reason for physical illness ...that came out of the Old Testament, no doubt brought in by God for this very purpose....people knew that only God could forgive sins and that the physical ailment that resulted from sin could only be removed by God When Jesus did this kind of healing and tied it in with forgiving sins, he was using the healing in the physical to show the healing of sin in the spiritual. He was reversing the process that as the people at that time came to learn was caused by sins against God. If Jesus was physically healing people that were perceived as ill because of their sin and only God had the authority to reverse that it had to cause the people to ask "who is this person?....must have really astonished them when Jesus went further and used that as a sign that he forgave their sin. In doing this, Jesus was claiming authority and the religious leaders definitely understood that for what it was.

I agree with your line of thinking here from the perspective of looking at the human side of Jesus. You are hitting on the conflict we have when we talk about "Jesus"....are we talking about the human side or the divine side or the physical side?...It can be very confusing! We so easily get the human spirit of Jesus mixed up with the divine Son of God spirit living within the body. In order for Jesus (the Son of God) to fully know the struggles that you and I deal with and therefore be able to fairly judge us he too must be able to experience those struggles as human. I do think that as "God" Jesus knew that he had to be crucified and that that was part of the master plan.

I'm with you on you on your observation Let me see if I can add to it to "flesh it out" I think in Revelation we have to keep in mind that John is having a vision and that he is seeing things in the spiritual realm. I've never really studied the passage you are mentioning and I think you have hit on something that will get a lot of us thinking. That's why I for one like following some of these discussions. Considering that John is experiencing this in the spiritual realm I think we have to be mindful in our contemplation's and discussions about this passage, actually in Revelation that this is a vision and there is no physical interaction between the spiritual and physical worlds. Having said that I would like to point out things like dragons and multi headed , multi eyed creatures. We learn that these are symbols of other things. Just as they are not physical realities neither is this vision that John is having, it's spiritual.....but it's just stuffed full of meaning and truth.( Daniel and Ezekiel's visions come to mind) I agree with what you are saying....but if we try to understand the relationship between the Son/ Lamb and the Eternal /Father in these passages that are revealed in the spiritual the same as we do in the physical we will get confused. The Father is not physical, neither is The Son ( we know and see him because he lived in the body called Jesus- became incarnate, the Son CAN become physical and the bible gives us many instances of various ways, not just a baby at Christmas). John had this vision to further understand how everything flows from the Father to the Son. In this passage our attention is drawn away from this amazing glorious throne to something even more glorious. The Lamb being able to open the scroll is pointing to everything that happened at, and the focal point of the cross .That it is through the Son dying on that cross that we gain access to the unseen Father symbolized as sitting on the throne. It has to be described in physical terms because as physical beings that's the only way we will understand it. In line with this observation I think it drives home something that most people are not aware of......we should always be praying to the Father....not to the Son (IN whose name we pray), not to the Holy Spirit (IN whose spirit we pray)....BOTH are avenues ultimately to the Father

Still keeping in mind that we are talking about the Trinity. Jesus/ The Son of God...is God and was making those statements as God. The Son doing only what the Father shows him can only forgive sins if the Father shows him. We see the Son forgiving sins because we are physical and we literally see the Son ...who does only what he sees the Father (who is unseen spirit) do. Interesting thought hmmm. What we see when Jesus does something in the physical is that part of God that interacts in the physical...as it is something coming out of the deep things of God (the Father in the trinity) and as it "has come out of/ is born out of God...it is a Son". That is one of the aspects to understand when we are called sons of God, in that sense it would apply to the Fathers will on earth being done through us, when that will is "born out" through us we are acting as "sons of God". The only way the Father can interact with the physical is through the Word...that part of God that can do the actual creating. He can interact with us spirit to spirit by the Holy Spirit but the Word/ Son is that part of God that works in the physical. The interaction with the physical is a two way thing....lets use ourselves as an example , because after all, we are made in the image of God; a)You have a thought to do some thing- soul (in the case of God - Father) b) you decide how you are going to do it- spirit (in the case of God -Holy Spirit) c) you act it out (manifest it) into the physical- physical/ flesh (in the case of God- Jesus/ The Son) At that point I see what happened and how you have communicated your inner thought.....say you type something on this forum Now the process reverses c) I see it in the physical b) I decide what to make of it a) it goes in to my thoughts I then respond by going back to b)......(where we usually screw it up and do selfish things) The Son and the Father had this same process going on, back and forth from the physical through the Holy Spirit (keep in mind this is the working process of "God"- Father, Holy Spirit, Son) When Jesus, the Son says he will ask the Father he is saying that there is a communication set up between the physical and the spiritual. As Jesus- the body that walked on the earth 2000 years ago is not here today, you are correct to say that that only applied up until the cross....... ...... FOR THAT BODY WE KNEW TO BE CALLED JESUS....., however.... Here's the amazing, most fantastic, awesome thing about his dying on the cross......man moves to the next phase (age) in our relationship with God and we can now have His Spirit living in us like Jesus did. We can have the same direct connection to the Father that Jesus did (signified by the tearing of the curtain in the temple) and we to can create in the world, as sons of God doing the will of the Father. God as was always his plan....now interacts with the physical through believers, we literally represent our Lord in our actions The implications are awesome ......and so is our responsibility! The only mystery I see in the study of the trinity is ...When did Jesus know who he was ? Probably had something to do with his baptism......

We can never truly make the judgement call of whether someone is saved or not. We can look at the fruits of their spirit and make a guess, but we just cannot know That aside check out the following; Heb_7:27 He has no need to offer sacrifices every day like high priests do, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he sacrificed himself. Heb_9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood he went into the Most Holy Place once for all and secured our eternal redemption. Heb_9:26 Then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the creation of the world. But now, at the end of the ages, he has appeared once for all to remove sin by his sacrifice. 1Pe_3:18 For the Messiah also suffered for sins once for all, an innocent person for the guilty, so that he could bring you to God. He was put to death in a mortal body but was brought to life by the Spirit, Jesus died once.....for all men- past present and future, once.....for all sin- past present and future He died once for all. Sinning again, and again, again ....He's got you covered. That's why Paul was adamant about not abusing grace(Romans 6:1 and on) Paul knows we will sin , look at his own struggles in Romans 7. what he is saying in 6 is that all sin is taken care of....just don't abuse it A person would have to know the works of the Holy Spirit in order to deny them. Someone ignorant of that knowledge can hardly be accountable for that. I would suggest tho that someone unsaved like a Satanist may be aware of the works of the Holy Spirit...that might be a good discussion to get into and work that thought thru

That would bring what Jesus said into question Joh 5:19 Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, the Son can do nothing on his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing, What the Father does, the Son does likewise. Keep in mind we are talking about the Trinity and how "God" functions (Father, Holy Spirit, Son). Jesus is very clear that the Son can do nothing on his own accord. Unless there is some other meaning to what Jesus said that I am unaware of I have to stand by what he is saying here that everything he did was the will of the Father

I am assuming since Jesus grew up from a baby to an adult, just like you and I in a particular culture, his mother and father would have taught him whatever language they were speaking. As far as I understand that particular culture it was primarily Aramaic with a large Greek influence and maybe some Hebrew as well. Whether Jesus knew only one or both or another language I think I will have to leave that answer to one of the cultural scholars on this forum. I don't recall reading that Jesus spoke in various languages although in his travels he would have gone into different regions that would undoubtedly have different dialects just like we would find anywhere else in the world. That was something that people of the region would have learned to understand just like if you lived in New York and went to Kentucky. Jesus knew the heart, the thoughts of men....that is something that the Holy Spirit does. Because the Father wanted it to happen, the Holy Spirit enabled the apostles to speak in different languages on Pentecost, so it would not be a stretch to look at Jesus, who was fully dependent on the Holy Spirit to know the Fathers thoughts, as being able to speak in other languages if the Father chose to communicate that way with someone. I just don't recall that ever being recorded tho. That's a real good question that you've put in my mind....now you've got me thinking. I'm having a tough time learning how to respond to someone withing the chain. Hopefully this goes where I intend it too Closest Friend you said But we can not say that they people had also this ability and they were able to communicate mentally, even thought that it is possible if the our thoughts are construed in the same language. You're right people cannot have the ability to do that but if God chooses to give them that ability for a time He is perfectly able to bless them with that ability through his Holy Spirit. "Even if Jesus had the help of the Holy Spirit, to interpret the Chinese thoughts to him. ( if that time ... was God , does he need the help of the Holy Spirit to translate the Chinese thoughts in to the language he understands) . " This topic is about the Trinity...with that in mind we know that The Son does nothing without the Father initiating it (John 5:19). Jesus did nothing without the Holy Spirit. Everything Jesus did was the Fathers will on earth as it is in heaven and as 1 Cor 2:10-15 tells us , it is through the Holy Spirit that Jesus (and us) can know the thoughts the Father. If it is the Fathers will that Jesus would understand Chinese then that ability would come from the Father (the deep things of God 1cor: 2) through the Holy Spirit to The Son and he would be able to do that. Talking about these things can be very confusing if we do not have an understanding that Jesus can refer to just a body or it can refer to The Son that is indwelling that body. We have to learn to look at the context of the biblical passages and determine which it is. What we see revealed through Jesus about God was exactly what God wanted and needed to reveal to man, nothing more nothing less.

There's a reason why your rear view mirror in your car is smaller than the windshield. Where you're are going is more important than where you have been. Dont put a big mirror in your marriage. Focus on now and building towards the future, eventually the past will only be a vague memory

Amen.. Think about it .....if they hadn't sinned they wouldn't need a Savior We are condemned because we on our own sin, our Savior pays the penalty of our sin for us This is important to understand because it enables us to understand that at the judgement Jesus doesn't SEND people to hell..he lets them go.....they are doing it of their own accord because they have chosen not to accept the gift of salvation! God doesn't send people to hell, he saves them from it

I am assuming since Jesus grew up from a baby to an adult, just like you and I in a particular culture, his mother and father would have taught him whatever language they were speaking. As far as I understand that particular culture it was primarily Aramaic with a large Greek influence and maybe some Hebrew as well. Whether Jesus knew only one or both or another language I think I will have to leave that answer to one of the cultural scholars on this forum. I don't recall reading that Jesus spoke in various languages although in his travels he would have gone into different regions that would undoubtedly have different dialects just like we would find anywhere else in the world. That was something that people of the region would have learned to understand just like if you lived in New York and went to Kentucky. Jesus knew the heart, the thoughts of men....that is something that the Holy Spirit does. Because the Father wanted it to happen, the Holy Spirit enabled the apostles to speak in different languages on Pentecost, so it would not be a stretch to look at Jesus, who was fully dependent on the Holy Spirit to know the Fathers thoughts, as being able to speak in other languages if the Father chose to communicate that way with someone. I just don't recall that ever being recorded tho. That's a real good question that you've put in my mind....now you've got me thinking. I'm having a tough time learning how to respond to someone withing the chain. Hopefully this goes where I intend it too Closest Friend you said But we can not say that they people had also this ability and they were able to communicate mentally, even thought that it is possible if the our thoughts are construed in the same language. You're right people cannot have the ability to do that but if God chooses to give them that ability for a time He is perfectly able to bless them with that ability through his Holy Spirit. "Even if Jesus had the help of the Holy Spirit, to interpret the Chinese thoughts to him. ( if that time ... was God , does he need the help of the Holy Spirit to translate the Chinese thoughts in to the language he understands) . " This topic is about the Trinity...with that in mind we know that The Son does nothing without the Father initiating it (John 5:19). Jesus did nothing without the Holy Spirit. Everything Jesus did was the Fathers will on earth as it is in heaven and as 1 Cor 2:10-15 tells us , it is through the Holy Spirit that Jesus (and us) can know the thoughts the Father. If it is the Fathers will that Jesus would understand Chinese then that ability would come from the Father (the deep things of God 1cor: 2) through the Holy Spirit to The Son and he would be able to do that. Talking about these things can be very confusing if we do not have an understanding that Jesus can refer to just a body or it can refer to The Son that is indwelling that body , one is in the physical realm the other is in the spiritual realm. We have to learn to look at the context of the biblical passages and determine which it is. What we see revealed through Jesus about God was exactly what God wanted and needed to reveal to man, nothing more nothing less.

Hey Scarlet, The most powerful physical thing you can have is the bible. May I suggest you find a store that sells bibles....it would be nice if they had some chairs there. Grab a bible off the shelf and read some of it, if you're not comfortable with it, put it back and grab another version. I took 4 hours choosing my 1st bible comparing the different ones and what I liked until I picked the one I still have to this day. I'm not saying it will take that long for you but I am saying find one you are comfortable with. My wife would not read a bible until I got her a copy of THE MESSAGE. it is worded in modern English and is able to get the main point across. Other people prefer different additions....FIND THE ONE THAT HELPS YOU GET INTO READING IT. The last thing, while you are reading seek to keep God in your thoughts asking Him for understanding. May I suggest the first thing you look up is James 1:5-6. Its not an if or a maybe, you just have to want.

I am assuming since Jesus grew up from a baby to an adult, just like you and I in a particular culture, his mother and father would have taught him whatever language they were speaking. As far as I understand that particular culture it was primarily Aramaic with a large Greek influence and maybe some Hebrew as well. Whether Jesus knew only one or both or another language I think I will have to leave that answer to one of the cultural scholars on this forum. I don't recall reading that Jesus spoke in various languages although in his travels he would have gone into different regions that would undoubtedly have different dialects just like we would find anywhere else in the world. That was something that people of the region would have learned to understand just like if you lived in New York and went to Kentucky. Jesus knew the heart, the thoughts of men....that is something that the Holy Spirit does. Because the Father wanted it to happen, the Holy Spirit enabled the apostles to speak in different languages on Pentecost, so it would not be a stretch to look at Jesus, who was fully dependent on the Holy Spirit to know the Fathers thoughts, as being able to speak in other languages if the Father chose to communicate that way with someone. I just don't recall that ever being recorded tho. That's a real good question that you've put in my mind....now you've got me thinking.

I think this is one of the best drawings of the Trinity I have seen. I do think it would be clearer tho if God was encircling the 3 because all 3 make up God.

The way I understand it the people that saw Jesus heal the man KNEW that it was the Holy Spirit that did the healing but did not want to admit it because they would have to concede that Jesus was who he claimed to be. They chose to lie and despite knowing the truth they said the Holy Spirit was the devil...they blasphemed the Holy Spirit fully knowing who He was.

Hey Omegaman, I don't think you realize it but you have hit on something here that has created a lot of misunderstanding between JW's and Christians. We lump everything about Jesus all in one and miss that the use of the word "Jesus" encompasses a number of different things ;for example THE MESSIAH, the Messiah is a description of a function. The SON OF GOD , Son of God describes his origins, CREATOR, Creator describes his ultimate holiness. Jesus in and of itself describes the body we see walking around and as a body it was created in the womb of Mary and killed on a cross. Where we get caught up is when it comes to Jesus we don't ask the question of what it is about "Jesus" a person is talking ...Lord, Savior, Son of God, Messiah, Creator...the body stepping into a boat, or resting? Your statement "we need to know if Jesus, is a created being, or the Creator Himself" ....can be both, yet can't be both......unless we separate out what it is about "Jesus" we are talking it will continually confuse the people we are trying to talk to. I know it almost sounds sacrilegious to say it but the reality is that the body identified and recognized as Jesus, that The Son of God occupied in the physical, was created. It's right there in the bible (Mat 1:18-23, John 19:30-33) . When we understand that, we can then start to explain how "Jesus" The Son has been alive for eternity past and future. blessings

I want to clearly say that I fully accept that there is a Trinity. I have befriended a number of JW's and this is a topic that always comes up. I think it is VERY important that we realize that the way we describe how the Trinity works is a man made doctrine, a doctrine that as it was being developed, saw a number of people being killed as heretics because they had differing views. That persecution was so powerful that today if anyone challenges that man made doctrine they are still considered heretics.........well, go get the wood. The use of the word "person" was something that was brought into being for the purpose of describing and trying to understand these 3 "aspects" of God that are clearly in the bible. There are a couple of things I find difficult in using the term 3 persons in 1. First is that the modern understanding of the word person is a lot different than what the theologians of the time meant for it, in fact if you try to look up a definition of the word it has many meanings. Second I think the persistent use of the word because "its always been accepted that way" creates way to much confusion, so much so that we throw our hands in the air and say "it is a mystery". I don't buy that, I think that God has made it very clear to us how he functions....right in the very beginning...in Genesis. We get the evidence in Genesis 1:27..we were created in Gods image... If that is the case then there must be a description of God that we can see reflected in us. What we see in the first verses of the bible is that the Father wants to create, the Spirit hovering over the waters is waiting on the Father anticipating what the Father wants to do and then he as the Spirit that knows the thoughts of God (1Cor 2:10-) shares that with the Son (that comes OUT of God) and physical things are created out of God Father , Holy Spirit, Son..how are we created in that image? We have thoughts....look that person needs help... we decide in our spirit what to do (based on what we know) ....we tell our body what to do (how to create in the world). The difference between us and God is that in our spirit we often choose to follow the ways of the world the Holy Spirit of God perfectly follows the Fathers thought. When we accept Christ and the Holy Spirit indwells us we then can know the thoughts of God......and God then works through us in the world because.....we are sons of God. Understanding how our spirit screws things up with selfishness helps us to realize not only how and where we sin but also our need for Gods help. I find it so so so much easier to explain the Trinity as 3 parts all interdependent of each other. Even a Muslim can understand because people can understand how we work in our creating process. At the risk of making the Holy Spirit seem insignificant and some sort of "energy source" (which is so far from the truth) .....I once heard the analogy of a computer that can do incredible calculations....but we have no way of knowing what that computer is doing unless we physically see it on a screen, but wait...that screen has to receive the info from the computer or it cannot share what the computer knows....that requires a connection that knows the thoughts of the computer..an Ethernet cable or a Bluetooth connection that transmits only what the computer tells it to that is then seen physically on the screen. Without that connection, what is unseen cannot be seen, the same can be said for the screen....they all need to work together to do anything in the physical. Jesus as the Son, that part of God that interacts in the physical, does only what he sees the father do Joh 5:19 Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, the Son can do nothing on his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing, What the Father does, the Son does likewise. Someone posted a query about Jesus saying he doesn't know the time of the end and if that is so how can he be God. The truth is that as the Son Jesus has to wait and see, through the Spirit, what the Father does. No different than you and I knowing we are going to go to sleep tonight, my body knows that is going to happen but until I, in my spirit, decide I'm putting my head on the pillow and instruct my body to do it....my body although it knows it is going to happen....doesn't know the exact time...only my soul does. Its all still 100% me working together, its just that there is a process is all. Father, Holy Spirit, Son...all make "God". Personally I think we are doing our Lord a huge disservice insisting on a man made doctrine that is creating a stumbling block for people that want to know Him. This should not be a stumbling block for us! (hope you're not pulling out the matches)

Love this!!.....gonna use it a lot

For me , it's totally get involved in relationships and talking about God, whether it is having a discussion with a mature Christian or engaging with someone I just met. I have found that in doing that, something always pops up in the conversation that causes me to reflect later and in turn dig in to a conversation with God for answers. That may come in the form of prayer, studying his word looking for answers or meditating on the things I already know.

You know...a fish is a fish...doesn't matter where it comes from, what it looks like, whether it's big or small, it's a fish.....a fish is a fish...... is a fish Interestingly I've been in bible studies where people have had a bible in one hand and a beer in the other (not me). Alcoholics that have accepted Christ but still have not yet been able to get rid of the addiction. I've seen the same with drug addicts. In both cases there are some pretty course discussions in some pretty dumpy, unhealthy places! You know...a soul, is a soul....doesn't matter where it comes from, what it looks like, whether it's big or small,.... Unfortunately a lot of people running to God are looking in the wrong direction or don't really know what it is they're looking for. My being involved with those bible studies has shown me that most are looking for God. I once had a guy tell me ' there is no such thing as an "in" or an "out" club when we are talking about a relationship with God, as if there was a circle and some are in and some are out. It's more like a central dot and everyone is on some trajectory in relation to that dot. Some coming closer some going farther. None completely in or out' Kinda reminds me of Paul in Athens.... I think we have to engage with people and see where they are spiritually rather than make a guess based on their situation. I was a couple of years into the kinds of groups I just told you about before God showed me that He reaches everyone where they are ....what ever their trajectory and, He uses those in those situations to touch others...pretty incredible to see blessings Mike

John 3:16 is well known for being toted as "the Gospel in a nutshell" "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life." Ask just about anyone what the next 2 verses say and even mature Christians will often miss something very important. Check out John 3:18 " Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned,......" God does not send anyone to hell, we are on the track there by our own doing! There is no fast way to hell as if we can choose to make that happen it's already going to happen!!! God saves us from hell. God offers us a ticket onto another track. That is Jesus suffering the penalty we should. All I had to do was accept it was done for me. I agree with Robert........ Even to change the question to "Whats the fastest way to heaven?" wouldn't work because the fastest and only way are one and the same.

Sight we live dual lives One is physical The other is spiritual We have a real BIG problem when we try to satisfy our spiritual needs with something physical! The mess of the world today is a blazing example of billions of people trying to do that. God created us for one reason....to love us. That's what God is all about...he is love and always thinking about others. How does that compare to the way you have been looking at things? What is the opposite of other centerdness? God created us and stuck in us a desire to be in relationship ...that's one of the aspects in how we are created in His image. That desire is in our spirit where we feel love, acceptance and joy to name a few things. We have all been suckered by the world whether in our culture or media or whatever, to think that if I had this, looked like that, could do it that way ....that I will be accepted. As a result of that programming we think that we find acceptance and therefor joy and satisfaction (in relationship) through the things that are physical. If we are truthful, really truthful, almost everything we do, ultimately, has it's very basis in the desire to be in relationship. You wanting the nice car and the nice bank account etc. is ultimately to achieve that......Sight, when you realize that, you will find it is sooo much easier to just walk up to someone and say hello........but you can't do it to spout your anger.....you got to do it ...........to love THEM not yourself Take a look at Mathew 6:19-34 particularly vs 33 Its the only way its going to work man....... You are not going to find happiness in all those things you want God to give you, and because He loves you so much, right now at least He's not going to provide that...he may never. But if you follow what Jesus is saying in the passage....it won't be the big deal you think it is now. Trying to find your happiness, that can only be felt in your spirit...through something physical, is like trying to mix oil and water...... ain't gonna happen. How has it been working so far? On another note; you are obviously going through an immense spiritual struggle and Satan does not want you to turn to God. Understand that the very fact that you are experiencing this is an indication that you are close to understanding and accepting something that is real. I also see that the fact that you are here opening up is an indication that you really want to know God. Someone else brought it up and I have to agree with them, you've looked into some areas where the Devil is strong. The devil is aggressive with you because you have turned to God but couldn't care any less about you he hates God and wants to get at him any way he can. Right now he's using you, he's using you to get at God because he knows if he can keep you thinking about physical things you won't realize the true spiritual joy that only God offers. Keep going forward spiritually and keep talking to God whether you're yelling at Him, crying, or noticing something positive He has made happen in your life. Work at shedding those physical desires...obviously the only thing they're doing is making you unhappy and angry so, let it go, let God deal with them on his time frame, .....Get into His word and fill your thoughts with good truthful spiritual things, get rid of all that other garbage you have been dabbling in. You are in a spiritual battle man, something bigger than I have yet to experience but have witnessed....grab the ammunition that Jesus talked about when he was tempted in the desert. .Jas 4:7 Therefore, submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will run away from you. Jas 4:8 Come close to God, and he will come close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Mike

When you look in a mirror you see a reflection. That reflection is your physical body, it's not the you living in that body, the part of you that has feelings like joy, sorrow, excitement, love etc. That part is what is often referred to in the bible as your spirit. This is where you need to understand that sometimes it is referring to your spirit as opposed to your physical body in that sense it is referring to your spiritual side. Within your spiritual side you have a soul and a spirit where you make specific decisions, this is where you get a second understanding of what the word "spirit" is referring to. The only way to understand the difference between these two meanings of spirit is to read the context in which the word is being used. Again, one is referring to the spiritual side of a human in general compared to the other referring to something specific within that spiritual side. 1 Corinthians 2: 11 gives us a good insight to the difference between the spirit and the soul It is telling us that our spirit knows our thoughts, there is a separation between our thoughts and our spirit, our soul and our spirit. You will also see in that verse that the same thing applies to God, only his Spirit (note the capital S, this is a 3rd reference to spirit but to God) knows the thoughts of God. God created us in His image and we work the same way. As we see in the first of Genesis, God thought to create, his Spirit knew what He wanted to do, and shared it with the Son who brought it into existence. We do the same thing, we have a thought, we choose how we are going to create something through our spirit then we physically create it. Here's my answer to your question and it has been alluded to in some of the other answers here; The next verse in the Corinthians passage talks about Christians, people that have accepted Christ as Lord and savior, they receive God's SPIRIT and as a result a "new" spirit, a new born Spirit...they are born again. There is a new life in them, and if you go on to read the rest of the Corinthians passage you will see that they are then able to understand the things of God. Gods Spirit within me has opened my communication with him and has given me new choices, rather than responding to things the way the world around me tells me to, I now have a connection to the thoughts of God through his Holy spirit LIVING within me and I can seek Him to guide me as a true loving Lord. I am now alive in relationship with God. Before that, as being separated from and not being in the family of God, my spirit was dead, only knowing to follow the world, unable to enjoy the blessings of knowing I am comfortably in the loving hands of God. In Romans 7:15 Paul talks about the struggle he has trying to follow God and do what he knows is right and desires to do. His spirit, where he is making his decisions, every once in a while seeks to do things in a worldly and selfish way rather than follow what Gods Spirit is telling him is right. Paul gets rather exasperated, as we all do. Thing is....you can't help but grow spiritually and become more Christ like when you have Gods Spirit in you. Mike