JoshuasonFlower

That would be Rudyard Kipling who said that. "Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet." Published in his work of 1892 and entitled, Barrack-Room Ballads.

Thank you for any effort you may choose to expend. I deeply appreciate your consideration of my request.

With all respect brother, it was not I who stated that which is quoted above. LadyKay said that. I just realized the quote box to demarcate that fact as I had divided her reply so as to address each point specifically did not take when committed to post. I will edit accordingly so as to remove the confusion. My apologies.

You should be able to then retrieve, copy and paste those conversations here to support your claim then. I look forward to reading that. As I am the subject of that inference I shall say once again and for the last time, you are misrepresenting the truth in my actual statement. I'll repeat my remarks for clarity. I have asked, if those people, and I did not ever name you nor any other person here, who speak ill of president Donald Trump would dare to say those same things to the face of God? The bible tells me that God sets those in authority over us. Therefore, Donald Trump being a Christian is there by our Father's choice and that of the electorate who gave him their vote. Being then that Donald Trump would be God's choice for America would those who say wicked things about him then repeat those same words to the face of God the Father who chose him for the U.S.? Grace, charity, respect, love, are all characteristics the Christian should embody as one reborn in the holy spirit by God's grace through our faith in his son Immanuel, Jesus Christ. Do we speak from a place of love? We embody in ourselves the temple of the holy. Do we appear as one who is saved from the evil in this world? Or do we appear as one who sustains the spirit of the evil of this world? We are the living testament of the truth of Jesus Christ and God the Father. I live as if my Father is on my shoulder every moment of the day. What pride would I instill in God's heart if in the course of saying I am his, I acted, behaved, as if I needed saving from the evil that I conjure in my example of what a Christian behaves as? Come the judgment shall I be afraid of my past life as Christ's own child? Will I hear God say, well done my good and faithful servant? Or would I instead hear God say he found me disappointing because I claimed the name of his son while acting like the angel he cast out of paradise. I don't knock on doors asking people if they've heard of Jesus Christ. That's not my thing. Rather, I live my life in a way that shows I have a very deep and intimate relationship with the Son of Truth. And in that way I have people who come to me and ask me where that comes from. And where can they find it. Each Christian lives a choice when delivering their own testimony in this world.

I do not think any person here would ever say you intend to stand mute. What I think you've forgotten is how to speak and from where. And especially when speaking among and to fellow Christians. Your resistance to Trump is your right. Your demeanor in the process reflects your heart and where it is. You'll not change what you think wrong with any administration in a forum. That isn't how political activism is accomplished. Political activism addresses the politics and the politicians. Political activists attend session, remain current with bills of interest starting in the House and pursue that bill or those bills progress through the system. Political activists write letters and copy to email their concerns to their respective state representatives. And even to the president himself. Political activists call the office of their representative and ask for a face to face so they can further discuss their concerns or ideas. Political activists pursue with respect, from a place of love, with Godly intentions , those politicians who are directly responsible for the step by step journey their state and nation take toward the future on any issue. That is what speaks for the great experiment, that of a free democratic republic. Speaking against leadership without love, without grace, without charity, acting contrary to everything that is described as the inward change in the new creation in Christ, on a text forum so as to conjure malice, conflict, chaos, among the divided electorate is not . The fruit that effort bears is rotten to the core. Because it will change nothing in the tree of liberty one finds at risk due to a politician and the direction policy they support may threaten. Instead, it divides a people into sides. It feeds one or the other wolf inside the individual that forgets their baptism and returns to the worldly spirit that thrives on such things as that. I've been a political activist for over 20 years. What accomplishes change for the positive side of this Christian land isn't machinations conjured and sustained from the devil. It is he whom we are to oppose brother. Not each other. You want to see change ? Be the change. Go to the source. Don't carp about someone behind their back to people who will never change what you believe wrong with that one you speak of. Speak to power. Not about it. Speaking about power doesn't fall into the ears of power. It fosters instead that which thrives on what makes the powerful of ill heart continue to lead a nation into darkness. Be the light.

Amen. There are what I've found to be a number of discussions here wherein this thread should be pasted as a reminder. Bless you for thinking of this. God's leading is perfect in its timing.

Doctrine refers to a stated principle, teaching, by a church or body of those affiliated with a belief system. Calvinist doctrine, Luther's doctrine, and so forth. Men, who defined what it meant to practice worship and give reverence to God. Be it ceremonial rites, liturgy, what have you. The ego's of men couldn't leave the simple teachings of Christ as it was. Certain of them had to attach pomp and ceremony to make it uniquely their property. As such, as you can read is happening in the world, the universal church of the earthly saints Jesus intended has fractured into allegiances to those properties. The enemy of truth must certainly be ecstatic at what has happened to the gentle rabbi's precious words. Because now there is that which is more in Satan's corner than in God's as the sins of pride and ego and most things God hates go so far as to use weaponized tongues to decree in yet another invention of human ego, all that is opposed to charity and love, that those saints who hold to certain doctrines are kidding themselves when they imagine they are that and of Christ too. No one comes to Jesus except his Father summons them. No one who is of God has any capacity to decree they know better than God the Father who was summoned. Pure in doctrine? There is no such thing. Jesus teaching was pure. Doctrine puts walls around the open hearted truth Immanuel died for. And now the world needs what appears to be another savior called reason and determination to resist the evil that hopes to cleave God's church in twain. That we save ourselves from the machinations Satan has called to come to life so as to war against truth. And put people of God at each others throats.

That's OK. It's all over with now and Donald Trump is president. I believe he is owed respect for that duty he's performing as the leader of the free world. Because when a people and especially Christians do their level best to join the resistance the left has invented so as to oppose him, it makes for a national profile that tells our enemies that they are secondary to that enemy aligned within our own borders. Donald Trump was the voters choice, God's choice if I believe his word, and as such if I am to in any way say I serve an all knowing wise God I certainly won't align myself to oppose that brother God called from our number to serve his purpose. Well, I could. However, I personally would then have a very difficult time calling myself a Christian. Personal testimony and observation of conscience is what I speak of and for in myself.

President Trump said he wasn't one of those who believes in forewarning those who our forces are going against . I'd hope this remains his strategy because it is a wise one. I personally don't want to know the Vinson's location. Let our enemies find out when it is deemed time.

I recall living in Ohio when it made the news that certain mental hospitals across the area had opened their doors and let their patients in custody free in the streets. They did so because their funding had dried up. A woman in Akron at an intersection clearly out of her head was standing in traffic under a street light cussing the colors as the light changed. Traffic turned to chaos as people tried to navigate around her and for quite some time before police arrived. Now, in place of sanitariums and hospitals with wings designated for mental health care, our new sanitariums often enough turn out to be prisons. The suffering who commit a crime out of their head unaware of reality are bused to hell on earth when released into general population so as to try and survive in that mental state among murderers and rapist. There are even states that have laws that say if someone is a habitual offender or has potential for that, after they serve their sentence they can be recommitted to the psychiatric wing of a prison and detained for what could be an indefinite period. There's an old saying. You can tell the character of a country by how well it treats its animals. I'd go further and add, elderly and mentally ill to that observation. America fails often times on all three counts. Sadly, it seems the mentally ill suffer such abuse because being they're thought mentally incompetent to be considered functioning human beings, who's going to believe them when they say we're failing them? Or abusing them? Not until they abuse us when released into free society does anyone believe there's a problem all around.

Great analogy. Isn't the church in Christ referred to as the bride of Christ?

Not even Charles Darwin was secure in his theory of evolution. He was quite conflicted about those things in nature that his theory could not explain. Science in this regard is actually doing its best to manifest diametric opposition to the universal picture of creation and created. Hoping to prove why we're here, hoping to prove the God science can own is responsible. Without all the worship, the history of religion, and so forth, attached. Science is hoping to be the prophet of a god of its own creation. Fascinating really given everything science finds was put there by the one eternal almighty power that can be named duck lips for all it matters. God is an eternal omnipresent spirit. There is nothing science can look for that when found is not God. Scientists are the ones stressing over the proof. Christians know what is inescapable and waiting for them.

Would you think a Christian could in good conscience have voted for Hillary R. Clinton?

I do agree with that. Do you remember when Hillary R. Clinton said something to the effect while on the campaign trail that she wondered if you could be a Christian and a Republican? I don't for a minute doubt that she and her money sponsors in the top 1% whom would have benefited greatly in her win of the election are behind all this that is happening in the left wing msm. Because that's the most effective avenue by which the resistance can make waves reporting conflict so as to stoke the resistance to more action. There's still violent clashes among Trump opponents and supporters? For what purpose but to make it look good to those who hate the fact the Donald is in for four years. Resistance. People hating his being in office are going to be satisfied by bad news concerning him. And if the perpetrators of that can attach the Christian community, the evangelicals that were the largest body of supporters at the polls reportedly, into that mix it is a win win. Because look at the direction the leftist politic was going under Obama. Hillary promised to carry that forward and continue his legacy. While who are those in resistance to that? You guessed it. Christians. Curtail the righteous , moral , majority of persons in a nation when intending to turn a country's policy into turmoil and there is less resistance to the agenda's progress. Why do we think violent Communist countries outlaw religion? Also, remember that Obama's mentor and Hillary's and that which they employ in their political drive was the philosophy of Saul Alinsky. You know how we Christians say iron sharpens iron? Alinsky taught steel on steel. “In the beginning the organizer’s first job is to create the issues or problems.” ― Saul D. Alinsky, Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals

I think all Christians here give testimony to their serving an all mighty God. Further, the remark about fear wasn't meant to be personal. It was meant to reflect the atmosphere of persons in the area wherein the manhunt was undertaken for this supposed braggart of multiple murders. But thank you for your testimony.

I remember at least one ISIS affiliate in the U.S. that was caught before he could carry out his mission on American soil. I remember also a report of a man affiliated with ISIS who did succeed in his mission. I believe it was in Texas. That may be wrong though. Of course ISIS would have operatives here. Years ago it was reported they had social media pages wherein they were seeking to recruit people to commit to Jihad. We read years ago also of silly teen girls being detained at a connection hub in a foreign country having departed from the U.S. in the hopes of becoming ISIS brides. I do believe America would do far better if this FBI investigation in all 50 was kept private and never hit the press. Giving a heads up to embedded cells or lone operatives with ISIS isn't a good thing.

That's good. But that wasn't the case when there was a manhunt over many states as law enforcement sought a man who bragged he'd murdered many others before his latest victim. If he'd live stream that on FB he could be considered capable of a repeat.

I don't believe it is a matter of being out of touch. I believe it is a matter of the left being determined to assail the Christian religious community because the evangelical vote in large part helped to elect Trump into the office. When the left wing media joined with what Hillary called the resistance and then makes up a story about Christians seeing Trump as a savior it discredits the vote and the evangelical and Christian voters that helped put Trump into office. And that then makes the resistance to look toward the whole of the Christian community as giving their vote to Trump because they're delusional. Seeing in him a savior. In the course of that it makes it appear that Christian religious loons seeking a messiah, a savior, as the only reason Hillary lost. And that then deflects from the real truth of why Trump won the election. Which is Hillary lost because in the democratic process voters decided they'd rather take a chance on someone not a career politician. When the only other option was a career criminal.

My pleasure. I'm glad you found the material useful. I do know what you mean about the rapture study also. I never knew it could be made so complicated until I arrived on the Net years ago and found the pre, mid, post tribulation presentations and the debates. I think the complexity of something that I didn't think was such is what makes me veer away from that type discussion.

I also think that there's a reason north Korea failed in launching their missile seconds after it fired up. That too is just something I'd call intuition.

Maybe this? I went to a resource I know so as to give a more detailed response. 6. Will The Church Go Through The Tribulation? Specific Promises In John 14:1-3, in connection with the promise of Christ, “I will come again,” the purpose of His coming is revealed to be to take believers to “my Father’s house,” by which term He describes heaven. After He meets the church in the air, He will take them to the place prepared. In contrast, at His coming to establish the millennial kingdom, all believers remain in the earthly scene. In 1 Thessalonians 5:4-10, believers are assured that they are children of light, not children of darkness. They are comforted with the promise that the day of wrath will not overtake them as a thief, as it will the world. They are promised, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thess. 5:9). In 1 Thessalonians 1:10 our hope is stated: “To wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.” If believers are delivered “from the wrath to come,” why inflict upon them a day of wrath designed for the ungodly? Are not believers assured: “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Rom. 5:9)? In Revelation 3:10 the godly church at Philadelphia is promised: “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” In a word, they are promised that they will be kept “from” the period of tribulation ahead. That is different from being kept “through” this time. This promise was true for the historic church at Philadelphia because they had the hope of the Lord’s return before the tribulation. If this church prefigures the true church as a whole, as many believe, it points to a further conclusion that all true believers in this age will have the same hope. This seems to follow a pattern found even in the Old Testament. Noah was saved from the flood. He was borne safely above it. Lot was led out of Sodom before its destruction. Rahab was saved before Jericho fell. Enoch was translated before the flood. While analogies are not conclusive, the translation of the church before the tribulation would be in keeping with these precedents.

The original posting doesn't speak of all this transpiring in a chat room here. Aren't there moderators present in chat so as to insure this kind of thing doesn't happen there? If it is against the rules in chat? I thought it was against the rules in the terms of service page that I read.

I posted this in its own thread so it wouldn't get lost. The fear is over. He killed himself today. Four hours ago according to the MSN report appearance. God have mercy. Erie PA 4 hours ago MSN Article ERIE, Pa. (AP) — The man who randomly killed a Cleveland retiree and posted video of the crime on Facebook shot himself to death in his car Tuesday during a police chase in Pennsylvania, ending a multistate manhunt less than 48 hours after it began.

Erie PA 4 hours ago MSN Article The fear has passed. God have mercy.

Salvation is by the grace of God. We receive God's holy spirit the moment we believe. "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:13). John 3:5-16 (KJV 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.