Heleadethme

Wouldn't hurt to keep a little eye on Israel, in my opinion.

Amen. Been thinking about that lately. Along with the scriptures, we have the Holy Spirit....how many believers actually get a witness of the Spirit when we hear about "one world government"? I get the opposite, more like a quiet "gong" or a sour note. As someone already pointed out...Jesus said nation would rise up against nation...that doesn't sound like a one world government. And I'm wondering also, if it was Almighty GOD who dispersed and divided the nations, does man or devil even have the power to reverse that? Even if it's always in their hearts to try, just because rebelliousness and lust for power lives in their hearts. But trying is not the same thing as succeeding.

It might be worth considering that at different times in history there has usually been a leading notable kingdom in the world, eg, this side of the cross there was still Rome for a while, then Holy Roman Empire (Europe), then Great Britain, followed so far by the United States. It doesn't have to mean the leading kingdom rules over all the others by force, but by influence...... and just by being greater, richer, and more powerful, the leading kingdom of whatever era has the ascendency over smaller less powerful, less influential kingdoms. Smaller kingdoms wanting a piece of what the leading kingdom has by way of advantages...prosperity and security etc, willingly join in and emulate and participate with the leading kingdom's system or way of doing things...economic system, education, medicine, military methods and alliances etc. "Ruling" doesn't have to be about force in other words. We might be barking up the wrong tree if we assume it does. The nature of prophetic language isn't like reading a textbook or newspaper which are more factual and literally precise.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Let’s really meditate on that scripture. And it’s also needful to reflect on why Jesus said to SIMPLY let your yes be yes..........because anything more than simplicity is from the evil one. Take note of the life and ministry of Jesus when He walked the earth, as He was/is our example....simplicity. He said, "Wherever two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them".....simplicity. Be aware that Mystery Babylon is always looking to take more souls captive. No surprise to God, as Jesus also said He is sending us out as sheep among wolves.

We know who the author of such things is....the Father of Lies.

I agree, everyone must bear their own responsibility. Bible says the priests bear rule by their means and the people love to have it so. But God knows what's what with each heart....eg, those who are younger in the Lord need time to learn the scriptures, to grow and sort things out. There is that the Lord knows those who are truly His and comes a time when He rescues them from the mouths of wolfish false shepherds. Jesus even said Himself that He sends us out as sheep among wolves....not as though on purpose perhaps, but knowing that this is how it would be...human nature. It takes time to crucify the flesh, for anyone, whether 'sheep' or 'wolf'. Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

I don't rule out the possibility of prophetic words speaking in spirit and having more than one layer to what they are saying. I was just sharing my part of what the Lord was kind to open to me. But keep in mind what the harlot being in bed with the world/beast kingdom means....spiritual adultery and being ONE with the world. Ancient Babylon in scripture was a type and figure of Israel BECOMING Babylon in essence because of being taken "captive" by it spiritually speaking. Nevertheless I am wondering how can the merchants who trade with Babylon be standing back watching her burn if it specifically involves the whole world? They would be caught up in the burning of judgment too one would think. Bible says judgment begins with God's house.

Yes, that is the "mystery" about Mystery Babylon....she is the collective body of God's people in bed with and compromised with the world, deceived and spreading deception....Israel and the great city Jerusalem (Sodom/Egypt/Babylon) back in the first century and I believe it applies to the apostate church in the last days as well, as well as may involve Jerusalem a second time, sadly (double unto her double). The beast/world kingdom turns on the harlot in the end....that is how God judges her.

Mystery Babylon and Her Merchants Perhaps we can allow the scriptures themselves help us to understand what the book of Revelation is talking about, what Mystery Babylon represents: Pro 3:13-14 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. Pro 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding. Jhn 2:14-17 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up. 2Pe 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. (ie, especially big name ministries, men of renown) Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Well, I would like to submit that there is no hostility between Israeli and Egyptian believers in the Lord Yeshua/Jesus Christ. What is that high Way that abolishes their enmity and brings them together?

For my part I'm thinking in terms of types/shadows, allegory and similitudes/parables. Since the testimony of Jesus/Yeshua and His gospel is the spirit of prophecy then I would ask what do these prophetic scriptures say to us about Yeshua and His gospel. The things in the new testament were spoken of in the old.....this is a picture of the Way...where the NT says we are people of the Way and where Jesus said He is the Way and truth and life. The high Way of holiness. Seeing this as why the apostle wrote of the dividing wall being taken down between Jew and Gentile, because it was already prophesied in the OT...the ENMITY between them had been abolished and a Way of uniting the two was established. Israel's enemies around them, the Gentile nations surrounding them (Assyria, Egypt...etc.) who would no longer be at enmity with Israel as both Jew and Gentile embrace the gospel and have one King in common between them. Doesn't mean every soul in either Israel or the Gentile nations would receive the gospel...no, because scripture speaks of only a remnant who would be saved, but those scriptures are foretelling of the glory of this gospel that unites Jew and Gentile together to be no more divided and enemies, but united by the high Way of the gospel. Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

I want to mention also that God is not looking for our "will-worship" (Col 2:23) and never really was under the Law. Jhn 4:21-23 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. When Jesus was saying not one jot or tittle of the would pass from the Law, He then went on to instruct in how we should keep the Law, the way of the Spirit, ie, in heart and from the heart, not the letter. In teaching those things He was showing that keeping the letter of the Law is in itself a failure to keep the Law. Nobody under the Law could keep the Law of God, because they did not have the new nature of Christ within to be able to keep it. Jesus did not give us a new checklist to keep....He was laying a foundation of what being led by the Spirit, walking in the Spirit and serving in the new way of the Spirit looks like. That it needs to come naturally from the new nature/spirit within the believer, our conscience and behaviour being informed and unctioned by Christ's Spirit within. It's by nature, not by checklist. Rom 2:13-15 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

ok, let's look at Deuteronomy 30, funny I was just reading there recently, the Lord works in mysterious ways. Gal. 4 “You who desire to be under the Law, do ye not HEAR the Law?....which things are an ALLEGORY”........in other words we need ears to hear, eyes to see...by His Spirit. Deuteronomy 30 is allegory about gathering scattered Israel together in Christ...it is talking about the gospel....promised land is allegory for the inheritance of the Spirit of Christ. It mentions circumcision of the HEART (Deut. 30: 6). As the Lord was kind to open my eyes recently to what scriptural references to regathering Israel from her scattering is all about.....going from lost condition to being saved by being gathered to Him...being brought into the gospel. (here’s a link to what I shared about that just recently, on Monday: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/277620-covenants/?page=2#comment-3498847 ) And it is a conditional promise, or else they will perish. (Deut 30: 18) The new testament witnesses to the truth of what I'm saying....Romans 8 quotes Deut 30 and reveals what it is talking about: Deu 30:11-14 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. Rom 10:4-10 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

It's funny how Gentile believers have been loving and obeying Torah for 2000 years, without a checklist and without a Temple and without any priest other than Christ. Go figure.

It's good to reflect on why new wine needed to be poured into new wineskins. Gentiles are the new wineskins. No one having tasted the old wine straightway desireth the new. Supposed to grow up and put away childish things, so I pray they will grow and mature as we all need to. It was so tiring to be told (accused) all the time that Gentiles hijacked the gospel away from the Jews. Israel is instructed in Torah itself to expect this. She is instructed to have her Son restored to her by Ruth who was a Gentile. Cyrus is a picture of the Messiah dressed in Gentile garb. The nations would bring Israel's sons from afar carried on their shoulders. etc etc. It's all over the Torah for those who have eyes to see.

You love your checklists, but I prefer to seek the new way of the Spirit and to be led by Him. Here's some more scripture for you brother : The carnal mind is enmity against God and cannot be subject to the law of God. (Rom 8:7) That's why you are always arguing against the plain and simple teaching of His word. But we need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying....the mind of Christ to understand. (each one according to their measure of grace)

Partially agree with some of what you're saying, and some I'm just not getting...my foggy brain I assume. His kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD. But His kingdom coming to earth has to do with it coming to individual souls. His kingdom is within us...it does NOT come with observation, lo there it is, or here it is. We're looking for the world to come, like Abraham was...that is, an heavenly. Still mulling this over, but I feel that maybe the connection to the lost tribes is God's way of connecting Gentiles to Israel in a general way, or in a representative number perhaps.....and COUNTING them as His people through the gospel. Scripture says the gospel would go to the GENTILES...so it couldn't have been lying. I consider it possible that there are Gentiles and believers who may have no drop of Israelite ancestry. And many believers have siblings and parents who are not believers and yet their ancestry is the same among them. Not all come to faith, whether of Israel or Gentile. Though the number of Israelites be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved. So where the bible talks about gathering Israel to Him, or gathering the nations to Him, we are not to assume it means every single soul among any group..it is speaking in prophetic language. I assume similar to the references to the lost tribes of Israel....that this is prophetic language, though I'm not sure I'm grasping it yet.

The new way of the Spirit.....not the old way of the letter. This was the reason the truth was hid from the religious leaders. And Jesus was seen reprimanding His disciples for taking Him literally and not having ears to hear what the SPIRIT was saying. I don't feel I can express this very well, so will just say that certain things may come to pass literally, yes, but that is not what we as believers are to entangle and burden ourselves with. That is not our mandate as believers. Eg, when the disciples asked Jesus about Israel, He essentially told them to "Mind ya business" and just get on with the gospel, it's not for you to know.

I find these are hard things to get my head around. That there is much allegory in scripture is an important key to understanding though. Scripture itself talks about similitudes/allegories/parables/ensamples. Here, I'll post the ones that have come to my notice: The Word made flesh, Jesus/Yeshua speaks in parables: Mat 13:34-35 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets. Eze 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables? Gal 4:24-26 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. The land of promise is an allegory for the Holy Spirit and eternal life through Him, it speaks to a heavenly inheritance. And what the Lord made clear to me the last few days is that where we see the scripture talking about "GATHERING" Israel back to the land is a beautiful allegory for being gathered in Christ/Messiah, the gospel. (Being scattered is an allegory for being lost, dead in sins and separated from God and His kingdom.) There is a biblical principle of first the natural, then the spiritual. I am wondering if Israel being re-gathered and restored to the land in our time is a sign in the natural realm for what will happen spiritually....that she will be re-gathered in Christ/Messiah, or at least a significant harvest of souls in Israel. (But I expect there will be some serious times to get through before that happens.) Some lovely scriptures about being gathered: Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Jhn 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him The new testament language of “gathering” is not accidental....it is taken from the old testament scriptures and reveals what the gathering of Israel in the old testament was talking about. Gen 29:7-8 And he said, Lo, it is yet high day, neither is it time that the cattle should be gathered together: water ye the sheep, and go and feed them. And they said, We cannot, until all the flocks be gathered together, and till they roll the stone from the well's mouth; then we water the sheep. (Beautiful allegory for the stone rolled away from Messiah’s grave and the resurrection...only in God’s time, the fulness of times, and only then could the sheep be gathered to Him and in Him.) Gen 41:49 And Joseph gathered corn as the sand of the sea, very much, until he left numbering; for it was without number. (and where else have we heard about being as innumerable as the sand of the sea?) Hos 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel. So many lovely references to Israel being gathered in the bible, I could go on and on all day! 😊 Oops nearly forgot this one! Deu 30:3-6 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. \o/

Jesus fulfilled all those ordinances on our behalf and then they died on the cross in His body with Him. We can learn by reading them but God no longer requires that we perform them, there is just no need to any more and God no longer ordains that form of worship. It is no longer His will. It's so uncanny how many are being pulled back and desire to do those things....just like the allegory of slavery/bondage in Egypt, many who were brought out of Egypt are craving to go back, they're missing the savoury leeks and onions of Egypt...it's so much easier to trust in our own flesh and elements of the seen world than to trust in an invisible God and Saviour and die to the world. You who desire to be under the Law do you not HEAR THE LAW? (ears to hear): Gal 4:24-26 Which things are an ALLEGORY: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Hagar the EGYPTIAN....a slave. Mt. Sinai where the Law was given. Gal 4:1-5 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant (slave), though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. This is why Jerusalem is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt......many are looking back longingly to Egypt/Sodom like Lot's wife. What happened to those in the wilderness who were trying to return to Egypt.....they were judged by God....swallowed up by the earth and died....allegory for returning to the flesh and elements of this world and dying spiritually....FALLEN FROM GRACE (Gal 5:4) , ie, returned to the condition of a lost soul and dead in sins.

Not the ordinances. They were done away with, abolished in Christ's flesh, nailed to the cross. Of course we are instructed by the Law in righteousness regarding morality, honesty etc, it is all the word of God, but the ordinances are finished. Ordinances were pointing to the Messiah and heavenly realities...tutoring to Christ. No need for them any more ever since the advent of Christ in the first century and especially since the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Heb 9:8-10 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them UNTIL the time of reformation.

Amen. And "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy"....it's all pointing to JESUS/YESHUA and His GOSPEL. (which arrived in the first century)

I know you weren't asking me, but hope you don't mind if I try to answer anyhow. Yes I believe He does.....His sheep know His voice and He can speak to us in many ways....eg, dreams, visions, prophetic words, revelations, songs, as well as through the scriptures. As well as that He teaches us through life experience....and is the reason for chastising us as sons. And this is the very reason we are told to test everything and test the spirits to make sure what we are hearing/seeing lines up with the word of God and character of God. And we even may learn about the character of God through our experience of Him in our life. As others are well saying, He is alive...the LIVING God...Christ resurrected...and we experience Him...His reality in our lives, not only in reading the bible.)

I dont' know if this captures it entirely, but I think of it that since the bible says we are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God", it also means we are predestined according to His foreknowledge.

I think that yielding isn't something you do or say, it's something you DON'T do, ie, don't resist. To receive anything from God, we need to "be STILL and know that He is God". All our battling really I believe is to come to that point of being still. Eg, when I give up trying to understand something with my own carnal mind, and either ask God or just look to Him being still in my heart, it's then the Lord GIVES me understanding when I am still (or at least partially, since we only know in part). When I was saved, the Lord drew me to attend a church that Sunday....didn't know why, thought at the time it was strange, but I just had this urgent desire out of the blue to go to a church....happens they were having a "crusade" at that time....I heard the gospel preached and then struggled with it for a week, I wanted it but didn't know how/what/why. Finally I just stopped struggling and trying to figure it out (I rested, I became still) and then everything changed in a moment with the Lord giving me revelation of Himself and the gospel and He set my life on a new path. And later I came to see how certain circumstances of life had readied me, my heart was more open than it would have been ten years earlier when I was a teenager, God working everything together for our good.