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1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things". this is not a discouragement, but fact. the harm comes by not confronting the facts, meaning the truth. as for Jude 1:24, that's contradictory to what you said, it's not you but him in you. so we do walk (live) as him, because he HELP us to walk as he walked because he walk in us, and this walk takes TIME.

GINOLJC, this is true, Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way".

be ye perfect, scripture Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". what do this mean? example, Mr October struck out more times than he hit balls out of the park. get the drift?.

understand, we're children, and yes we make mistakes, scripture, 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things". that's why John called us children, we're still growing. no baby have come straight from the mother's womb walking. no, one must craw first, then walk. Oh I know some think once born again they cannot sin, no, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us". the growing pain is when one can recognize when they have sinned or missed the mark. verse 9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness". now one is growing.

you said that, but you do have a choice in the matter, Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God". transform: make a thorough or dramatic change in the form, appearance, or character of. you have the power not to sin, but just in case if you slip (the flesh is weak)........ you do have an advocate. but since your feet are on solid ground, you shouldn't be slipping very much .

Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; (READ THAT AGAIN) but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God". bottom line, "DON'T MINE SIN"... and the way to not mine sin is to change your mine, scripture, Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God".

again error, listen, Gift, it means a thing given willingly to someone without payment.

ERROR, it's a "GIFT". no work involved.

GINOLJC no need, for Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

this is correct, but before the fall, scripture, Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope". him here meaning GOD.

the Answer was on your lips, sin was condemn in the flesh, and when he come we will get NEW BODIES. Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh". for the wages of sin is DEATH. 1 Corinthians 15:54 & 55 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" as for our bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body". 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is".

GINOLJC, Romans 2:10-16 "But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel".

GINOLJC, Revelation 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still".

GINOLJC, not saying any is right or wrong, but consider this. a lot of what our Lord states in Matthew 24 correspond to Revelation chapter 6 and the four horseman, as well as what the prophet Ezekiel said in his chapter 14:12-21. False Christ, Mathews 24:5. Revelation 6:1 & 2, Ezekiel 14:15. The hebrew word for “noisome” in Ezekiel account is H7451 רַע ra` (rah), which means, bad, or evil. And it’s root word is H7489 רָעַע ra`a` (raw-ah') v. means, 1. (properly) to spoil. 2. (literally) to ruin by breaking to pieces. 3. (causative) to make good for nothing. 4. (figuratively) to be good for nothing. 5. (physically, socially or morally) to be bad. the apostle Paul, following our Lord said this about being "spoiled". Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. and the apostlea Peter and Jude describe these "evil" men as BEASTS, 2 Peter 2:10-12 "But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption". Jude 1:10 "But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves". clearly our Lord identify these men as false Christ. also he identify the other riders, B. Sword/Wars, Red rider. Ezekiel 14:17 "Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it". Matthews 24:6. Rev 6:3 & 4 C. famine, Black Rider. Ezekiel 14:13 "Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it". Matthews 24:7. Rev 6:5-6 D. Death, Pale Rider, Ezekiel 14:19 "Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast". Matthews 24: 9 Rev 6:7-9. fury here is the Hebrew word, H2534 חֵמָה chemah (chay-maw'), which can be translate by the KJV as WRATH. In Ezekiel chapter 14 God give 4 judgments, these four correspond with the four horsemen of Rev. 1.the sword, 2.the famine, 3.the noisome beast 4.the pestilence

GINOLJC, the sun and the moon was given also as signs (Gen 1:14). and we have a major sign, (a total solar eclipse of the sun) on the north American continent August 21, 2017, not in September, but in August. as examining it on my tablet, tracking its path, one thing my wife pointed out to me, (as we live in the central time of the US), that the total solar eclipse of the sun, for our central time zone will be from 12 noon to 3 pm. the time our Lord hanged on the cross. Matthew 27:45 & 46 "Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?". the sixth hour is 12 noon, and the ninth hour is 3 pm. is this a sign for the rapture happening next month in september, I don't know. I'm not in the predicting or setting times. as for me personally, I believe many other thing must take place before the end comes. of course I believe in mid-wrath deliverance, as was in Noah's day with the flood, as well as the three Hebrews boys and the fiery furnace in their day of the Lord. both deliverance was by the instrument of destruction, or the wrath which saved them.

GINOLJC, to all. haven't read all the post, but the few i have read was interesting. addressing something what the OP said, I agree that the book of Job is a loaded book of information, especially on this man and his friends. what was revealed to me in this book about Job and his friends, right off the bat in the very first chapter and a few verses is the fact they are sons of God, scripture, Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east". I have bold and red "men" here, because it's the Hebrew word, H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) n-m. בָּנִים baniym (ba-neem') [plural] בְּנִי bniy (ben-ee') [possessive singular] בָּנַי banay (baw-nah'ee) [possessive plural] (used widely) a son (as a builder of the family name). THIS IS THE EXACT SAME WORD USED IN GENESIS 6:2. this man Job was not only a son of God as also the other men/sons of the east, but this man Job was also keeping the feast days of Deuteronomy 16:13-17. yes this book have a lot to reveal.

GINOLJC, first thanks for the reply. second, you error in all your assertions understand this, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation". so I gave none, only scriptures to prove what I was is true. the Greek Interlinear Bible (NT) says the same thing as the KJV, you can find it at http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm yes you gave the answer yourself, ""to have seen or perceived;" hence, "to know, to have knowledge of," whether absolutely, as in Divine knowledge. So to help you out with this... (SMILE)... It helps YOU, because, hath seen is perceived by, and perceived means become aware or conscious of (something); come to realize or understand. see that word "UNDERSTAND". now Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments, G1492 εἴδω eido (ei'-d̮ō) v. 1. (properly) to see (but not limited to the eye). 2. (by implication, in the perfect tense only) to personally know (i.e. to have seen or have experienced something by firsthand observation). 3. (by extension) to personally know how (to do). 4. (also) to see how (it is done). KJV: be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) know(-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wish, wot OK, yes, now you beginning to "UNDERSTAND".... (smile) PS understand that the book of REVELATION is about our Lord Jesus THE CHRIST. him only is this REVELATION is about, and no one else. so keep that in mind, ok.

Revelation 12:5 "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. A. "she brought forth a man child". OT, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". NT, Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins". B. "he is the Ruler of all Nations". Rule here is to shepherd, or feed sheep. it's the Greek word, G4165 ποιμαίνω poimaino (poi-mai'-nō) v. 1. to tend as a shepherd of. 2. (by implication) to feed sheep. 3. (figuratively) to supervise, direct, and feed. clearly this child, this son is the Lord Jesus who is the chief shepherd , the bishop of our souls. supportive scripture, John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine". 1 Peter 2:25 "For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls". C. "Rod of Iron". a Rod is for correction, scripture, 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (also see Ps 23:4 for correction). Iron is for unchanging, for God change not. Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever". D. "her child was caught up unto God and his throne". the Key word here is "child", and note the Greek word for a male child (son which is, G5207, huios). these two words alone gives us the revelation. but let the bible reveal itself. caught up means here in the chapter means "come in POWER, of the Spirit". Lets examine this word, G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo (har-pad'-zo) v. 1. to seize {in various applications} [from a derivative of G138] KJV: catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force) looking at the derivative below, now we can understand, G138 αἱρέομαι haireomai (hai-reh'-om-ai) (Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate hellomai hel'-lom-ai; which is otherwise obsolete) v. 1. to take for oneself, i.e. to prefer [probably akin to G142] KJV: choose Matthew 11:12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force". this is the exact same word used in Revelation 12:5 SEE ABOVE G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo. I suggest one read John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible, this commentary gives the clear meaning as how "suffereth violence" is rendered. it mans, "comes with force". in Power of the Spirit. just as our Lord, the son here was empowered, so are we. listen, Acts 1:4 "And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me". verse 8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth". his authority was from the "throne" of God. this is crystal clear. that takes care of verse 5. as always, if anyone who have a different view please feel free to post your thoughts. again I say this vision of event John have already seen, meaning this is the complete Revelation of the Christ who is Jesus..

GINOLJC, first thanks for the response. second, what was interpret ?. scripture was given for every event. there is no personal interpretation, if so please point it out. you said, "Herod the Great died four years after Christ was born. This just isn't right". what's not right?. third as for John and Daniel they are certified. fourth, you said, "A prophet cannot prophesy about something that already passed". I'll let the bible speak, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" this is a "REVELATION" a disclosure of the Lord Jesus the Christ. and John was told to write the thing that "WAS" meaning past, scripture, Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter". here John was to write the things he "saw", read that verse again. so I strongly dismiss your claim . fifth, U said, "A prophet cannot prophesy about something that already passed". God do it all the time, especially his reminding them of their captivity. Prophecy, Prophesy, Prophesying signifies the speaking forth of the mind and counsel of God. it;s just not only about future events. let the bible prove you in error. as you know that Jonah was a prophet... right. let's see what he did. Jonah was sent to Nineveh to do what? let the bible speak. Jonah 3:1-3 "And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. 3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey". did you see what Jonah did now? PREACHED. prophet preached, just like John the Baptist. so that premise is also corrected. I suggest you might want to re-read Revelation chapter 12, or maybe the whole book again. but in fair defense, if you see chapter 12 differently, please post your beliefs so that we can examine your point of view.

GINOLJC to all. Verse 3 “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head”. as the woman appeared which was "GREAT" in wonder in verse 1, like wise this wonder appeared, but not "GREAT". the first wonder of the woman with child was good. but this wonder is evil as we will see. again just because a vision is seen in heaven, dose not mean it took place in heaven. A. a great red dragon. dragon here is symbolic of the evil one. who is working through a willing vessel and that vessel is none other that king Herod. the devil who is a spirit get others to do his dirty work, he just work behind the scenes. this dragon is called red which is symbolic for blood. king Herod had much blood on his hands as we will see. let the bible interpreted itself. supporting scriptures, Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men”. here king Herod had "blood" on his hands The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he ruled by. so clearly he is a bloody dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2. B. This dragon is called “great” to which Herod is called the great. So without a doubt the red dragon here is none other than king Herod the great. C.seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head. This is the power or the seat of authority behind king Herod the Roman empire. The beast Daniel saw in his night vision. Verse 4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”. This verse have been misunderstood for a long time, but now revealed. The main key here is the word, “tail”, and “of “, as in “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here are symbolic. stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men, who hold the message of God. those on earth that had heavenly information, or a message, that’s the symbolization used here of , of, of, heavenly stars. so, Matthews chapter 2 tells how Herod the king tried to kill the baby Jesus, and slew all the other babies in Bethlehem and the coast. it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this to me is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven. drew here, is another word for "to gather together". so who did king Herod drew, or gathered together?. it's the stars or messengers that is on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. (I'll show this by scripture). Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill). as said, the word drew, past tense, mean to gather, draw together. lets pick up the account in the scriptures according to, Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 part), and scribes, (2 part), of the people together, (there it is, of the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, and they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". here it is confirm that the babe came out of Judah. Now lets get the third part of stars/messengers. Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, a third part of the STARS. lets recap, Matthews 2:4, 1/3 chief priests, 2/3 scribes, and our 3/3 the wise men. see how the wisdom of God work to bring out the correct information. only Lucifer fell, scripture, Isaiah 14:12 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!Isaiah 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit”. Not one holy angels in heaven fell, but Lucifer only, not here in this account. let God word prove without a doubt that these stars here in chapter 12 are men, and not angels as many believe. everyone one knows that an apostle called a messenger.it's the Hebrew word G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos. let's also see this word messenger identified as "stars". Jude1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, (there they are), to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever". who are these spots, the clouds without water, who fruits withereth, raging waves of the sea, these wandering “stars”. so who are they, men or angels?. a reading of the whole chapter will revealed who they are. But lets see them in a few verses. Jude verse 4 "For there are certain “men” crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ”. now verse 11, these same men are describe again, "Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core". now the identifying verse of these men one more time, "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever". these are men, and not angels. notice the identities in verse 13, " wandering stars". so as we know now, backed up with scripture that these stars are men, ..... on earth, and not angels in heaven. “and the dragon stood before the woman ready to devoue”. Matthews 2:8 “ And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also”. The word devour is to kill. scripture: Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men". So we see the real dragon being represented/ or is symbolic in the person of king Herod. And the woman, symbolic of the church in the wilderness, (Judah). And the child born is the male child the Lord Jesus, the HEAD of the church, the chief cornerstone. the 3rd of stars was 1 the chief priest, 2 scribes, and 3 the wise men, the THREE PARTS. so we have the bloody red great dragon, king Herod, checked. how he "drew" the 3rd of messengers with his tail. and tried to devour /kill the baby Jesus. all checked in Matthews chapter 2. next time verse 5.

Revelation Chapter 12 and Matthews chapter 2 * Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12 Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of Judah, the church in the wilderness) Dragon = the evil person, the Representative of a political power. king Herod Red in this chapter is symbolic = blood Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic). the 3rd that fell, or was gathered by the dragon tail Sun = gospel Moon = Mosaic Law step by step analyzes of the chapter, verse by verse. Verse 1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars”. A. Just because a vision is shown in heaven dose not mean that the vision took place in heaven. B. the woman is the remnant of Judah, the church in the wilderness, whom was never divorce by God only Israel the northern ten tribes. supportive scripture, Jeremiah 3:6-8 "The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. 7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also". now Judah, Isaiah 50:1 "Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away". here Judah was put away but not divorce. yes, this woman is a church that was in the wilderness, the faithful remnant. supportive scripture showing a "church" in the wilderness, Acts 7:37 "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us". there she is, "the church in the wilderness". so the nation of Israel had a church in her, and by representation of this woman she now gives birth to the age of grace. so the woman is checked off. B. Clothed with the sun, which is God's Righteousness, the Gospel. the sun checked off. C. the moon under her feet?, here, the moon is the Mosaic Law. let the bible interpreted itself. Proverb 6:23 "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life", now this LIGHT at the woman feet, Psalms 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path”. there it is, “the law was a lamp, (light) at her feet the woman feet. just as the Sun is a greater light compared to the moon in nature, which is symbolized as the Mosaic Law, so is the word of God, (the Gospel) is superior to the Law itself. Israel walked by a dim light, but now, no more. so we got the sun and the moon checked. D. upon her head a crown of twelve stars. notice it said "A" crown, not 12 crowns, but one crown. crown here is symbolic of authority and stars are messengers, in this vision the stars/messengers are the one from this remnant who will take the gospel, the good news to all the world. so crown of twelve stars, checked off. Verse #2. is self explanatory. next time verse #3.

thanks for the response, but I'm new to the site, Pftt?

GINOLJC, to all. read most of the post. interesting. but can I make a suggestion. consider this, Revelation chapter 12:1-12 is a past event. if one keep one hand on chapter 12 of Revelation and the other on Matthews chapter 2:1-8 one will see the revelation.

I agree that the devil only comes to steal, kill and destroy. and U said, "The more we fall into sin the more we destroy our God given wholesome consciousness", true, but when the offence comes yes Grace abounds Romans 5:15-21 "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord". this is a good conversation. the book of Romans just about hold all of the basic doctrine one need to be guided by. may God bless.

I'm not sure about that. here's why. evil, or doing wrong is a learned process, and not inherited. let me give an example. if a child born in China, and the child was raised in an English speaking environment, the child by "Nature" growing up will speak the English language. but by birth a "NATURAL" citizen of China. just as many bi-lingual people today. just as racism is learned and not inherited. true we have a sin nature of Good and Evil. but we can "overcome" the evil, or control the evil nature, instead of it dominating our thoughts. I believe that evil have it's place but just not at the head. the apostle clearly defines this for us in the book of Romans. Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof". let is a condition of ye or nay. not all sin is unto death. for there is ONLY ONE SIN UNTO DEATH. 1 John 5:16 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it". this should ends any generation sickness of sin, scripture, John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him".