Hidden In Him

I've been considering this issue quite a lot lately. Most believers don't realize it, but even the apostle Paul or the Lord Jesus Christ Himself could post incognito on a topic, and for the most part it would go right passed them and they would begin arguing. The reason is simply that we are not in a place in church history where many have ears to hear. Most just adopt a certain doctrinal line on a subject and then take it upon themselves to become a "defender of the faith." But what's usually missing is a combination of humility and genuine scriptural knowledge. The lack of humility makes believers insist on saving face even when they are clearly being disproven, and the lack of genuine scriptural knowledge makes them defensive if someone posts something that contradicts what they've been taught, or if something they post gets challenged. Look for mature believers, and interact with them. They are usually easy to spot. Often they are older (though not always), but what you will see is a habitual practice of manifesting respect for others, even during debate. James, Chapter 3 addresses this. The wise man can be distinguished from the foolish by how he behaves, not just what he teaches, which makes how they behave sort of a dead giveaway. I have friends of different persuasions, doctrinally and politically, with whom I very much enjoy discussing things even though we disagree, because I know they are of the right Spirit and even if I am wrong they will not insult me. Unfortunately, these types of believers are in the minority, but they are around. You just have to take note of people, watch their responses (i.e. their behavior), and learn what to expect. I haven't been here long, but there are certainly a few good ones here I've noticed already. Btw, the proper spelling for "bored," at least the way you are using it, is actually "board." Just thought I'd throw that in there while the context was about being good-hearted.

LoL. I would have to agree with Bk1110 and Debp. That questionnaire is liable to be answered by someone in ministry, and they may have too much going on with people who already are members of their church to be that worried about spending too much time on someone who may or may not become one. I don't want to discourage you or anything; I'm just saying you might want to trim that down to the bare essentials. Without it being intentional, your list also has a way of coming off like you will be the type to hold them highly accountable, and despite not having even met them yet. Most pastors already have members like that, and they generally aren't too wild about them, LoL, so I'm guessing the number of responses you get will probably be minimal. It would certainly be a way of giving yourself plenty of heads up if it worked, but in the real world that probably won't work out the way you hoped it would. God bless. If you'd like a word of advice, along with searching around, make sure you PRAY often for the Lord to direct you to a good church. Even sometimes when we think we have found the place God has for us, there may be factors involved that we don't realize, but the Lord can protect you from getting overly-involved in a situation that looks right but actually isn't.

Actually, enoob, I think the OP was from the outset addressing Christians discussing the word together, whereas your Luke passage is a reference to the word separating believers from those who refuse to, and instead stand opposed to Christ. The context is different, don't you agree?

Mary, I want you to pray for me. It shocked me to read the first few sentences of this, because it is precisely where I left off in a conversation I was having with some Messianic Jews recently over the feasts. I have been working on my own spiritualized interpretations of the feasts in relation to the path each New Testament believer in Christ is supposed to walk. But that is admittedly a spiritualized application, and I believe in partial, literal and even spiritualized fulfillments of prophecy. In other words, I also found their arguments about the fulfillment of the feasts to be very interesting as well and something I wanted to look into, but didn't have the energy. By His grace I need to get into this with you, and badly, but it will take His grace to devote myself to it fully. So pray He gives me the time and ability if you would. P.S. Should I not respond to this again, please post me privately. It's as if the Lord is requiring me to deal with this, so He's leading me right back to it, LoL. God bless, Hidden

If this is a double post, forgive me. Still slowly figuring out the quirks at this site, LoL. Thanks for your response, Pillar. My response to this would be that I think we simply need to return to a proper understanding of what the rules originally were. While I don't wish to get into strife with anyone over this, I do actually agree to much of what Alex posted. I think where the church went wrong is by reintroducing the Old Testament practice of tithing under the guise that it was the same thing as "giving and receiving," which is clearly not the case at all. Giving and receiving was voluntary, and mostly involved simple exchanges, like with food and clothing. There were larger exchanges, such as the sale of lands to provide all things common to believers (Acts 2:44). But again, this was all voluntary. Tithing on the other hand is compulsory, and in the modern era the application of this doctrine is what has opened the door for massive abuses in the name of Christ, even by conservative preachers, which seem to completely contradict the example Paul was trying to set that it is better to give than to receive (Acts 20:35). I do not stand in judgment over others, including those who disagree with my position on this. God is their Judge, and will judge justly. I simply think the church would be reaching the lost more if the example we are setting returned to the original New Testament doctrines laid down by the apostles. I see no problem in giving and receiving when there is true need, but obligating believers to give massive amounts of money that tempts ministers to live exorbitantly at the expense of the church needs to be corrected, and it will only start when we finally correct our understanding of what true "giving and receiving" was meant to accomplish among the brethren.

The Lord is now allowing these things to happen in your life to reveal to you that the faith you are rededicating yourself to is indeed real, as is the spiritual war that the written word of God talks about. He is now granting you an understanding of how real your spiritual enemy is, so that you can begin to arm yourself with spiritual strength against Him. As other posters have already stated, you have authority in Christ, so the Lord apparently now wants to see you move into that authority, and walk closer than ever to Him now. God bless, and welcome to Worthy Christian Forums!

Then I'm glad I was ready for a pop quiz, LoL. If you had caught me in one of my "at the end of my rope" spells, I might have gotten expelled from school entirely!

Oh! I see. Yeah, I tend to study the original first. I don't think there's really much of anything wrong with the translations you cited, although technically the word is χαριτόω, which is the verb form of the word χαρις, which is translated "grace" in the vast majority of places in the NT. Yeah. I'm cool. I wouldn't get upset about something like that. I'm a firm believer in abiding by James 3:18 (although every once in a while I still goof it up, LoL).

I was referring to the expression in Luke 1:28, which mentions how Mary was endowed with grace. Frankly, my head is starting to spin at this point, so how about if we call it a draw, LoL.

You mean this?

No, I think you're confusing things. I'm saying the expression "full of grace" is clearly not used in reference to Mary, at least not in the Greek New Testament anyway. I was saying the exacting translation of Luke 1:28 would be "endowed with grace," which is a different thing, and does not carry nearly the same weight of meaning.

The verse is a reference to Jesus. What was your question exactly?

LoL. Yes, I think He did. But the expression isn't used in reference to Jesus. It's used in reference to Mary, is it not?

I didn't read this post until after I had searched it out for myself, but it appears I'm in agreement with Vincent's. He came to the same conclusion.

And I would add that the phrase "full of grace" in reference to Mary is a bit unscriptural. Was she endowed with an amazing form of grace in being chosen to bear the Christ-child? Yes, but the expression "full of grace" more technically refers to someone upon whom the Holy Spirit has descended in great power and fullness, and that is something entirely different.

Some nice work. The Greek word used in reference to Mary in Luke 1:28 is χαριτόω, "to endow with grace," the same word used by Paul in reference to the saints in Ephesians 1:6, "In love He predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ unto Himself... to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He bestowed upon us in the Beloved (i.e. in Christ)." The word simply means Mary had been endowed with grace in the sense that she had been chosen to bear the Christ-child. The perfect participle middle or passive refers to a state brought about by the finished results of an action, with the "action" being that God had chosen her for this, and the angel was now coming to announce it. About the phrase "full of grace," the actual wording in reference to Stephen is πλήρης χάριτος καὶ δυνάμεως, "full of grace and power," which makes it a reference to his being full of the Holy Spirit, bestowed upon him by God's grace.

For the record, are you the same "Freindof ThaLord" that is/ was a friend of Solomon's Porch over at Christian Forums, or are you someone who coincidently just uses a similar site name?

I checked, LoL. I would have been astonished to see a child be quite that eloquent. But yeah, unless she's rich, most children don't list "traveling" as something they enjoy either, LoL.

Greetings, Kiwi. About bible versions, the best way to look at it is that every translation will occasionally have something that others don't. Some KJV verses are not included in later versions because they are not present in the more authoritative Greek texts. But this does not necessarily mean they are not inspired. Discernment from the Holy Spirit is beneficial in such cases. It should also be pointed out that there are places where the text behind the KJV is clearly a corruption. Does that mean you throw out the KJV? Not at all. I still use it quite often, especially the KJV study Bibles, because the language is poetic and memorable, and I can find verses easier if I search for them online or in Strong's using KJV wording. The cross-referencing in my KJVs is also far superior to anything I have in any other Bibles as well. So try not to get caught up in one Bible or the other too much. Until you can study scripture from the original language, you will be at a bit of a disadvantage anyway, but the Lord will teach you regardless. You just have to ask Him to, and trust that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth if you keep seeking Him for it God bless, Hidden.

You seem like a wonderful soul, BibleBunny. And rest assured that making it through this will add to your testimony in Heaven as well. You will go into eternity with a record that you stood strong in faith during a very tough time, and be remembered for it forever, just like the saints of old are remembered for the things they remained steadfast through.

I agree. When I first started believing in Christ, I still had questions about things like how evolution meshed with the Biblical account. But while I kept a fully open mind about things, it wasn't long before the Lord showed me the weaknesses in the evolutionist case. Long story short, taking a few upper level courses in paleontology and reading through a couple of well-written books by creationist authors, and I found out Christianity has no problems with real science whatsoever. Only false science presents a problem.

Greetings, BibleBunny. My sense is that maybe the cancer thing has him so discouraged that he's afraid he would be a burden on you instead of a husband, and the rest is just a cover. I could be wrong, but that would seem to make sense of it all. But I wouldn't consider it as a "test from God." A test, most certainly, but not one your Heavenly Father wanted you to go through, just one that you may have to. He always wants to bless His children with all good things in Christ Jesus, so here is what I suggest: Every time your heart and mind thinks about anything that would bring you down, cast that care on the Lord Jesus Christ, even if it means doing it a hundred times a day for a while. Trust your fiancé to the Lord, that whatever he is doing and thinking will come under submission to God, and live by Philippians 4:8 where your own thinking is concerned. Coming from a 54-year old, 42 is still young in my opinion, LoL. Tell Him in prayer that you trust Him to provide for you, and put food on your plate, and tell Him repeatedly. This is a step of faith, but it will calm your own nerves as well as remind Him of His promises. And if you trust Him you will see Him begin moving in your life as never before. What I mean is this: View this is an opportunity, not a test. It is an opportunity to trust God in situations you've never been in before, and watch Him go to work on your behalf miraculously, which will bring joy to your heart and greatly increase your faith. But again, cast your cares upon Him; ALL of it, and trust in Him that He will take care of you; your heart, your mind, your welfare, all of it. As for the UK, I have other Christian friends in the UK, so I know how it is. The spiritual climate is a little tougher over there, and they don't take your faith very seriously. But let what God is about to do in your life become a testimony of why they should, in that He provided for you in a situation that might have been more than others could have recovered from, and you came through it stronger than ever. I know doing these things is harder than saying them, but this is what the good fight of faith is about; it will require a strong effort. But seeing the victory at the end of it all will make it all worth it. God bless you in Christ Jesus, and if today wasn't a good day then you treat yourself to something nice for your birthday tomorrow, or next week, when you're back in the mindset to celebrate the wonderful person God made you and everything you have going for you, and everything He is going to do in your life in the future.

You may mean well, Pillar, but I think you go too far. I also wish more ministers emulated Paul's example where finances were concerned, in that I think his example was more self-sacrificing. I think his humility and selflessness are reasons why he was entrusted with greater authority in Christ (1 Thessalonians 2:4-6). He provided for not only himself but Silas and Timothy, and because his teaching was that it is better to give than to receive (Acts 20:34-35), he abstained from giving and receiving (in most cases. See Philippians 4:15). And yes, if an apostle could support himself and others with him then surely some pastors could, especially younger ones. But as others have stated, to say NO man should be supported in ministry is to go beyond even the clear teachings of Paul himself. This was clearly not what he was teaching, as Yowm's post makes abundantly clear. Suppose a man has great spiritual gifts, such that he can heal the sick, cast out devils, prophecy, and confirm the word with great signs and wonders, yet he has become too old to support himself financially while still engaging in ministry. Should he stop ministry altogether, or receive financial support so he can continue?

I should point out, too, TechEnthusiast, that the closer you get to God the more He transforms you into someone who is of great benefit to others, and this attracts others to you. So try not to let yourself continue to focus on your loneliness. It has the opposite effect. Not that you would not be cared for by true Christians, but they will care for you even more if you focus on being a blessing to them as they are to you. There will still be times of loneliness along the way, but in time you "fill out" in Christ to such an extent that you are always needed somewhere, because you can always be a blessing to someone.