DRaleigh

Will that be a fair decision? A child born to a christian family will be influenced by their parents and strongly believe what their parents are believing. Similarly it would happened to the child born to a muslim, atheist or interfaith family. Besides, assume a child born to a atheist, buddhist or interfaith family to understand the truth of religions and read the Bible and come across with the following, "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods”(gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery" - I actually felt bad when I first read this, that's why I had to bring it for the discussion. And now assume if he read Quran to find the truth and if he across with the following, “Rocks and mountains would say to God’s Messenger (PBUH), ‘Peace be upon you, O Messenger of God!’” The Foods that Glorify God: “While eating together with God’s Noble Messenger (pbuh), we used to hear the food glorifying God.” He would think that both religions must not have the truth. Thereafter, he might completely ignore both religions as false, so why he must be in this eternal lake of fire? Then I see, God has time to speak to people from time to time and give visions (pastors around the world claim this), if he has time spend in that way then why is he not educating the people in a legitimate way and tell everyone the truth behind religions? Like I said, I don't have a doubt if my brother exist or not but I can't make the same statement about God because his existence is a mystery. Therefore, when we see these big issues, is it reasonable to have a destination like eternal lake of fire for a non follower ?

May I know why you said that the child will die in the lake of fire? Thanks!

When we are born to this world we don't have a religion, so I actually questioned our beliefs fundamentally, what is worth to accept? and will that benefit human beings in a good way? what should be rejected? It could be interfaith or any concepts similar to interfaith, hindu, buddhism or atheism or any other religion or any other human belief. So by analysing your reply, it seems to be you are truly believing Deuteronomy 13 has the word of God when it comes to prophets. Let me know if I'm wrong. This is what that verse ask Gods people to do. Do you really accept that Gods thinking is correct here? "It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery" Gods statement is pretty clear here. Just because God has helped Jewish people to come out of slavery, Gods request here is evil. Further, if you believe in crucifixion as right, can I know this? a child born to a muslim family, buddhist or an atheist family will mostly likely follow what their parents are believing(just like you), so how that Child will be helped by the crucifixion of Jesus?

Hi frienduff theylorde, What I see is that even Muslim people could be thinking in the same way, besides, if you were born to a Muslim family you would bring the same argument. You mentioned me a verse about stoning to death when you were explaining about dreams and visions and then later when I research into bible to see if such verses are there, it seems to be more than 15 verses are there about stoning to death, so there could be a chance that these verses are still there because of that very thinking, thinking that we mere mortals don't understand if such a thing is right or wrong, only God would know that? We have never questioned such verses. Now by having our limited thinking capacity, if someone asks, what would be the best punishment for some crime, do you think we will ever tell that person to implement stoning to death as a punishment? I think, Gods help is not needed to understand the cruelty of this punishment. If we ever happened to implement a punishment for some crime, do you think we will ever implement stoning to death as a punishment today, by understanding the world far greater than our ancestors? This is torturing a human being to death, so Gods advice on punishing cannot be acceptable or we will have to accept all these as mistranslations. So if we logically think about crucifixion, it's the same and I personally don't feel like it's the right choice, if some God actually created this world and human beings, he could have saved human beings without crucifying his son. Today a child born to a muslim family, buddhist or an atheist family will mostly likely follow what their parents are believing, so how that Child will be helped by the crucifixion of Jesus?

Further, I read another article just now, this is what it says: Numbers 15:32-36King James Version (KJV) 32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. Do you think it was an acceptable punishment mentioned by the God to Moses for this cause? Can all these verses are mistranslations?

frienduff thaylorde and Bro.Tan, Correcting a bible verse is actually fine but then again how many people would have read Deuteronomy 13 in the 17th century, 18th century and 19th century but looks like they have accepted it as the true word of God and this is not a complicated verse to understand by any follower. This is another thing that keeps me in wonder, One more question:If you are the God, if you are the person who created this universe and human beings, will you ever send your son to suffer on Earth with a horrible crucifixion to save human beings? As the creator how many options you would have had to save human beings without letting your son to suffer with a crucifixion?

So according to Bro.Tan this particular section has been wrongly translated. We have to accept that as a possibility cause if not the God must be evil for asking such a thing from us. Having said that, for over 1000 years, I'm not sure why responsible people out there have never noticed it as a false translation and taken some action to correct it, cause human beings around the world are reading the bible and some people might actually follow these words as the true word of God and do exactly what the bible say. A good example of human behaviour could be understood by reading the below. http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/mum-32-who-allegedly-stabbed-newborn-son-says-god-told-her-to-do-it/news-story/f9f1b68a39df2943c4c81ae4c7ee56b5 These are not some random youtube prophets, there are so many church pastors who are claiming this and if I take a known person, that would be Joseph Prince, a pastor in a famous Singapore church. One time I actually visited his church while I was in Singapore with one of my christian friends, the pastor was a nice person and should not have a reason to lie and just like some other pastors out there he also think that God is speaking to him, this could be a major reason for his faith. And in certain times, these voices tells clearly about future events beyond the capabilities of human beings. Just like "other one's" experience, which you can see below, Which means, someone out there is capable of directly stimulating human brains for us to perceive his words. This is what we have understood by studying our brains, http://scienceinpoland.pap.pl/en/news/news,405977,psychologist-persons-with-schizophrenia-believe-their-inner-voices-in-their-heads-are-strangers.html “Neuropsychologists may explain auditory hallucinations with stimulation of the auditory cortex. “We know that when auditory cortex is stimulated, it begins to produce auditory experiences. Sometimes – we do not know why yet – this part of the brain is stimulated spontaneously. This means that without appropriate sounds, words from the environment, we can hear voices” – said the scientist and added that a healthy person would begin to hear voices or sounds, if he or she had an electrode implanted into the auditory cortex. Stimulation of the primary auditory cortex would make the person hear crackling and noise, and stimulation of the secondary auditory cortex – more complex listening experience, for example voices.” - When God speak to people, there will be electrical activities in our auditory cortex, without this people will not perceive any type of hearing. So if pastors are not lying, if God indeed speaking to people by directly stimulating our brains from time to time, why is he not having an intelligent conversation with human beings, so we will not have any doubts for his presence in this world, isn't it? I don't have a doubt if my brother exist or not but God has time to speak to people by letting people to doubt his presence. Then most importantly, if he has time, why he is not helping us to understand the truth behind religions? I would be happy to follow him if I knew the truth. One more question: If you are the God, if you are the person who created this universe and human beings, will you ever send your son to suffer on Earth with a horrible crucifixion to save human beings? As the creator how many options you would have had to save human beings without letting your son to suffer with a crucifixion?

"You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people" Means, God is clearly asking us to do it if our brother, sister or anyone does it. This has written by Moses prior to Jesus being on Earth. So people must have followed it in ancient times, don't you think? So these words could be even from demon or Satan, isn't it? or what could be your view?

I read that chapter and this is what it says, "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods”(gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery" God asking to stone to death if someone try to turn you away from the God, this could be even if your brother, son or daughter, wife or your closest friend. In families sometimes brothers might ask such a thing or it could be friends too, so why God is asking to do such a harsh punishment if they pursued you with such a thing? Do you think it's the word of the real God?

That wasn't good reply either, cause you are saying that God has been deceiving people for centuries and centuries by talking people, including pastors? So, I still didn't get a logical answer to my question, out of many people out there following are some of the people who claimed that God has spoken to them, So according to you is it the true God who has spoken to these people or a fake God? if not what are these voices?

Actually, my main concern is the voice that people hear who claimed to be the God. As I said we cannot deny this hearing and it's real. So by analysing these voices logically, are we being fooled by someone or is the true voice of God? If it's the voice of the God, why is he not helping us all to understand the truth behind religions in a legitimate way? Because anyone can fool us so we must not become a victim for anyone. Then if it's not the voice of God, what are these voices? How come these voices know future events precisely? And most importantly why human beings are not investing to find out the truth of this voice? Therefore, thanks for the replies, I still didn't get a relevant answer to my question.

Thanks for the reply. I totally understand your experience of hearing a voice. I understand that people are not lying about their experience of hearing a voice claiming to be God. People I know have told me this, so I really don't have a slightest reason to doubt because of the way they explain their experience. So all this is fine, but then again like you said, some voice has asked you to" stop... don't do that" who claimed to be the God, if so why can't we have a legitimate intelligent conversation with God, so we could understand the truth behind religions? Why God has never made that decision to help human beings to understand the truth? To explain us the truth? Because of this, I feel like a voice who claimed to be God is deceiving human beings only.

Thanks for the reply but your reply didn't answer my question. Assume you are the God, while you having time to speak to people from time to time and make us feel WOW, why you actually won't taking an initiative to have a proper intelligent discussion with us so we could understand the truth behind all these religions? And I would be happy to see, if God could speak to us about this in a legitimate way, so we will not have to doubt about his existence. Why he has failed to do this for centuries ? Why is he keeping others in the darkness while he talk to us ? This initiative must come from God but I feel like he is silent, he has never even seen this as a big issue and he is not helping humans to understand the truth behind religions, so we keep on killing each other. Isn't it?

Dear All, I thought this could be very relevant to this thread. I see many people around the world claiming that they hear the voice of God and this hearing is real we cannot deny it but if God is really speaking to us and if he has time to do this, why is he not helping us to understand the truth behind all the religions? Can we get God's help and help Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist people or even atheists to know the truth? Can we all have an intelligent discussion with the God? Cause ever since, we have seen that people around the world are killing each other because of our personal beliefs about God, if God have time to speak to us, why not we use that time to do some intelligent act to help the humanity? How many lives could have saved? How many problems in the world could have been answered? What could be the actual truth behind this hearing ? Or are we being deceived by the demon ? Appreciate for your replies and sorry, I hope I'm not offending anyone. Thanks Dan.

This will be moved to another forum.