listener24

On 10/3/2018 at 1:05 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

How about this for a Universal Title.....”This thread will morph into the standard OSAS vs NOSAS given enough time.....” lol.....

22 hours ago, other one said:

but sometimes it goes through a couple of hundred pages of Sabbath talk..   lol...

AHAH so true!

Seems like often we like to talk about what we are familiar with and what we already know, and don't wanna spend too much energies on considering new topics

10 hours ago, naominash said:

The visible church? I can't say were doing what were supposed to.

But true believers in the true Church are climbing and climbing to greater service and righteousness in Christ. So I'm not worried. God will accomplish what He wants, regardless of the quantity of true believers within the visible church.

Amen!

"Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom."

On 9/16/2018 at 3:11 PM, george747 said:

I will happily join those who are eagerly awaiting and praying for the soon return and appearing of our Lord Jesus, "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." 2 Timothy 4:8

Glad you are joining the prayer brother! Every single prayer according to the will of God has an effect, and we couldn't be more sure about how Biblical is the prayer for the Bridegroom to come. Starting from the Our Father, the prayer taught by Jesus Himself, when prayed with the right understanding.

On 9/16/2018 at 3:11 PM, george747 said:

Much of the church, and of course the world, could care less about our Lords return because they love this world and the things that are in this world. The Lord said that the way to life was narrow and that where our treasure is, there our heart will be also. It's a joy to look up if our treasure is in heaven.

You are right, unfortunately worldliness leads to not care about our blessed hope of the Return of Jesus, or even fearing it!

I love your Scripture about our treasure in Heaven.

Indeed, true Christians get a huge part of their motivation from the blessed desire of Heaven. I always have goosebumps when I read these words of Jesus:

""Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world."
 

A way to fight the worldliness is indeed focus our prayers on this blessed hope of Jesus Return, "thy Kingdom come/come quickly Lord", knowing that when we pray "your will be done" it is also included the request of whatever is needed to get there.

"But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."

Maranatha!

20 hours ago, Kristin said:

I know we here at Worthy are certainly the body of Christ. Are we also the bride? 

Indeed we are the Bride Kristin, and we should be happy and eager for the Bridegroom to come back for the marriage.

"But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast."

When the Bride comes to Her fullness of preparation, a cry will start from Her:

"The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come! 

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
" (Revelation 22:17, 22:20)

The time is already here for the Bride to shout this cry from the whole world, as a testimony to all nations.

It is time to answer what Jesus asked us in Luke 18:1-8:

 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. ⁷ And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? ⁸ I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

Through this prayer, the Bride hastens the coming of His Bridegroom:

"Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives ¹² as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming." 2 Peter 3:12

Let's answer the call of the Spirit who wants to make the Bride ready!

@Montana Marv @Retrobyter Thank you very much for the answers!

Can you share some Scriptures about it? Thanks!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7217719/bible-prophecy-apocalypse-firs-red-heifer-born-israel/

I didn' t know anything about the topic.

Anyone more knowledgeable on this topic wants to share thoughts? 

"And I will do whatever you ask in my name" (John 14:13)

(also Matthew 18:19; Matthew 21:22; Mark 11:24; John 14:13; John 15:7 etc.)

A friend of mine was complaining that the words "whatever you ask" are ambiguous and seem to indicate that any kind of request will be fulfilled by the Father, and he was complaining that it doesn't seem to be the case about a lot of things that Christians asked and weren't fulfilled.

How would you respond? (I already have an idea of a response, but don't want to bias you and want to hear your opinion)

On 9/7/2018 at 1:11 PM, JTC said:

I was listening to an online lecture and this issue was mentioned. Let me rephrase the question. If sincere well meaning believers get taught the wrong things, things that have them committing a sin, who will God charge that sin to the person or the teacher? They were debating this 2000 yrs ago and I think we still are. I recently read James and he told the people that not many should seek to be teachers because teachers will be judged harder than plain believers. That makes it sound like preacher who taught the wrong thing will be charged with everyone's sin. But there's also a scripture that says to him who knows a sin is a sin he will be held responsible for that sin. I forgot if Jesus or Paul said that. So all of us who study the Bible may be getting ourselves into a more responsible place with God. Maybe this is why some people would rather not study it. However, I study it because I love God and I want to know Him. At least that was why I started doing it, but now I find I'm in a more responsible place with God. Or maybe I'm wrong. It seems the churches and the men of God never found an answer to this that they all could agree upon.

I agree with @shiloh357 and @Sevenseas

If a "pastor" ask to blindly follow a wrong suggestion, and the "asker" blindly follows the suggestion, the sin is on both. They are both violating Matthew 23.

Because Jesus said:

 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

Therefore, instead of this:

SCENARIO 1 (against Matthew 23)

"Pastor: here's is the suggestion. Follow it because I'm your pastor"

"Normal Christian: ok, I'll do what you say pastor".

A more healthy situation would be:

SCENARIO 2 (In line with Matthew 23)

Normal Christian 1: "Hey here's is a suggestion. But remember, I'm a man like you. Examine the Scriptures with your brain and make sure that what I'm saying is Scriptural"

Normal Christian 2: "Thank you for the suggestion. I will examine the Scriptures with my brain, and see if the direction you suggested me is in line of Jesus' teachings".

Now for scenario 2 to work, each Christian must have a daily relationship with the Word. It's not enough to read it once in a while and think that some "pastor" or "teacher" will explain us what we need to know

2 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Indeed. There are books that can be beneficial, but we must always test with Scripture, “16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God[a] may be complete, equipped for every good” (2 Timothy 3:16). We must correct and report false doctrines inside books outside the Bible with Scripture. 

Right now Solae Scriptura is under siege in Protestantism. Many are embracing Prima Scriptura because they want to obey other scriptures and teachings of mere men (Colossians 2:23). Jesus our Lord and God witnessed this attitude to trust in other traditions, “You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[a] your own traditions!10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’[b] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[c]11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” (Mark 7:8-23). 

This warning is very much needed these days!

On 8/7/2018 at 10:24 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

I have chosen not to put this in the Eschatology section, because I beleive it is good for general discussion.

Many believers have "Apocalyptic Blues." Between all the Pre-Millienial, Amillienial, Post Millienal, Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, Partial Trib and etc; many are overwhelemed. Well this thread isnt' about that. It is about the fact that Apocalypse in the Greek means "Unvieling." Unvieling of the Bride of Christ! (Revelation 19:1-11). Our main problem in the end times discussions is we focus on the details of how it will play out, this has merit, we need to know the times and signs, but we must always fix our eyes on Jesus (Hebrewes 12:2). The truth is for us Christians, the Apocalypse is the Wedding Supper, and Christ is coming to collect us His bride (Matthew 24:39-5, 1 Thessalonains 4:16-17) to be with Him forever (Revelation 21:1-53). The focus shoudl be Christ and Him coming, our Bridegroom and God coming to get us His bride! It is the best romantic story ever, it beats Nicholas Sparks! For the sparks of Jesus' fire eyes is His passion and love for you; He burns to be with us and love us with same ferocity He had on the cross!

It's time to get excited! To pray Jesus come quickly, "Thy Kingdom Come," and "The Bride says come! Yes, Come Lord Jesus." (Revelation 22:1-20).

Let us fix our eyes on our coming Bridegroom, our King of Kings, and Everlastin Father. Amen,.

I' ve been reading a couple of books on this subject recently.

They both point out that the true Church of all believers in the last days will become holier, despite the external and internal attacks, and part of the evidence that "the Bride has made Herself ready" will be the fulfillment of Revelation 22:17 "the Spirit and the Bride say come"

An unprecedented desire for the Return of Jesus, manifested in the prayer "thy Kingdom come, come Lord Jesus", is one of the main traits that according to these books that draws from the Scriptures will show the maturity of the Bride and also fulfill Luke 18:1-8

This seems to be happening and this thread that you opened is an example!

On 9/5/2018 at 5:44 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

I myself read church histories, fiction, and etc. Solae Scriptura isn’t to deny reading other books, that is madness; it means don’t let other theological books and authors gain precedent over Scripture; always let Scripture prevail against the giants of Church History. 

The struggle is to let Scripture remain your only book for right theology, doctrine, christology, and etc while enjoying the insights of other books and writers. We must be careful though because there  are destructive heresies (2 Peter 2:1) that can creep into the non-Scripture author’s writing. 

Long as we do not hold up a work by an author outside the Bible to Scripture, Solae Scripture can prevail. 

Amen.

I think that in summary, we can read other books as long as we test each content with the Scriptures.

But we should never accept any teaching from a human author only based on his authority, regardless if he is the founder of our "favorite" denomination. Included Luther or other giants

Matthew 23 is always relevant on this topic

24 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I've been reading, and sometimes participating in these kinds of threads for 16 years here.  In all that time, I always ask the same question and in those 16 years only one person even tried to answer it and even then, they never gave specifics.  They will tell you that you need to "keep" the Sabbath in some specific way, but then they either can't, or won't tell you how they do so.  And if they are telling you that you need to do it, it follows that they have to be doing it, or they they have no right to tell others they have to do so as well.  But they can never explain either simply, or in detail how they are keeping the Sabbath themselves.  That displays a blatant problem that they choose to ignore.  It bugs them when it gets brought up.

Wow this is exactly what I was asking in the OT!

I' ve been here only few months but I' ve noticed the same dynamics you are describing.

Now you confirmed me that these kind of accusations of not doing something on Saturday but being very vague on what this "something" should be is a pattern.

3 hours ago, gerhard eber said:

'Letting alone' nothing of what Jesus ever said, the fact YOU '~don't find any indication on how a believer should concretely "keep the Sabbath"~', does in no way whatsoever 'indicate' or 'describe', or '~in other words~' even remotely resemble '~Jesus' words~'. Quote here where you '~usually read the Gospel~' support your VAIN allegations!

 

Can you quote Jesus words in the Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, you choose) on how to keep the Sabbath? I was simply asking this and all I am reading in 5 responses from you are an escalation of personal attacks.

Don' t worry If you don' t feel like answering to that specific question though, there are much more urgent topics I' m discussing on this forum with other users

Peace

10 hours ago, gerhard eber said:

You are not the novice you pretend to be. No one on here won't recognise that fact at once.

8 times it's 'I', 'I', 'I' in this short space - unmistakable indication 'I' is thoroughly acquainted with his / her own 'idea' of 'what it means to keep the Sabbath' and that he / she is of the opinion any idea at difference with his / her own, is 'pharisaic'. 

Who would have so little wisdom as to think it worthwhile to enter into discussion with someone who already is so sure of his or her own ideas about the Sabbath in the Scriptures? 

 

Thanks for correcting the writing style! But using the singular form is not necessarily bad, it sometimes shows that the person speaking is using his/her own head while reading the Scriptures, instead of just following what some favourite leader said, and is ready to challenge his/her belief. Not that of course not using the singular form shows the contrary, but maybe in general is better to discuss the contents themselves more than the writing style, especially before jumping to conclusions.

Actually, I don't have a strong opinion on the topic as I said at the beginning. For instance, it's great for me to dedicate AT LEAST a full day to the Lord and specifically on spending time with His word and taking time to think, or to serve Him in some specially dedicated ways, like worship and community life. This is what some user suggested and I loved their suggestion and made sure to incorporate it in my life. Which day or days? I'm not sure. Was trying to find some hints in Jesus words but found none. Some people may have to work on Saturday to feed their family, but maybe they have Sunday free for worship. Some other Wednesday.

The post was a sincere question on whether there is any hint of indication from Jesus Himself on how to "keep" the Sabbath, because in that period this post was published there were a LOT of posts on this forum with people fighting on whether to "keep" or "not to keep" the Sabbath, but probably some of them was not even sure of what they meant by this. (there was an overwhelming amount of those kind of questions, seemed like the main topic for some weeks here, by far, which shouldn't be the case)

23 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

I have shown you scriptures that prove the Kingdom of God has already come, that Jesus meant in the Our Father, You are calling Jesus a liar AGAIN. Because He said some of those will be alive when the Kingdom comes, But they are ALL dead now, So Jesus wasn't talking about the coming Kingdom that's in our future.

Of cause none of the disciples in Lk 17: 22. would be alive when Jesus comes back again, That's why they won't be here to see it, Which proves that the Kingdom in the Our Father, Isn't the coming Kingdom. The Bible mentions the Spiritual Kingdom, Which Matt 6: 10 mentions, which came on the day of Pentecost. And the second coming of Jesus to set His heavenly Kingdom. And you are only mentioning the latter. Rom 14: 17 says the Kingdom mentioned in Matt 6: 10, Is already here. I can only teach you what the Bible says, I can't make you believe it.

Brother, the Lord prayer talks exactly about that heavenly Kingdom that Jesus will set at His Return, when He will deliver us from the evil one, by separating the goats from the sheep, that is why is not "obsolete". In fact He says "our Father in HEAVEN..THY Kingdom Come"

This is the same cry expressed in Revelation (notoriously a book about end times), about the true believers, especially in the last days:

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!"

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

Jesus taught the Lord prayer, He didn't say "pray this prayer only from year 30 A.D. to year 33 A.D. then stop praying this because of the Pentecost", this is the invention of someone who told you this.

6 minutes ago, Alan Hales said:

You can call God a liar if you want to, But I won't. Because God said He won't tempt anyone. But go ahead and call God a liar, But remember, you'll have to stand before God one day and give an account of why you call Him a liar,

I suppose you are one of those religious people who repeat the, "Our Father" parrot fashion. Jesus never meant it to be repeated in robotic parrot fashion, It was just an Old Testament  outline of how to pray.

And whatever makes you thing we can slow down the return of Jesus by  teaching the Bible?? Or teaching error, for those like you who do.

I am not calling God a liar by just reminding the prayer He taught

Rather,differently from you, instead of trying to destroy what Jesus said I try to understand it.

No I am not one of those parrot people, I pray the Lord prayer by understanding it, you neither understand NOR pray it But you teach other people that the prayer that God incarnated taught is obsolete. Go ahead with this teaching, while you teach to keep on babbling and be listened because of many words like the pagans (Matthew 6)

Teaching errors like you slow down the return of Jesus because stop people from desiring it.

Yes, teaching errors has a lot of bad consequences

PS you said one thing right, that the correct translation is "do NOT abandon US into temptation", instead of lead US. I will update my post on that, thank you. The rest of what you said is the dangerous teachings of preterism.

1 hour ago, Alan Hales said:

[1]Because the Kingdom of God  has already come, It came on the day of Pentecost, Either that, Or Jesus was telling lies, in Mk 9: 1, Because all those are dead now. The Kingdom of God is with us now, Rom 14: 17-18. 

No, the Kingdom has not come. It may have come into your imagination when you try to forget that millions of people still suffer starvation, war, persecution, slaughters, natural disaster etc. etc. while you are enjoying a beer.

But regardless the lies, unless the King will not come back we can't say that the Kingdom has come. The King has been among us for a while, but then He has been taken away:

Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.
People will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them.
For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. (Luke 17:22-24)

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place." (John 18:36)
 

But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. (John 8:23)
 

So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” ⁷ He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth Acts 1:6-8

Then read the whole Matthew 24.

You are confusing the coming of the Kingdom with the fact that we have received the Spirit to testify Jesus until His Return. This mistake have many names, one of it is "preterism", and its most dangerous effect is to slow down Jesus Return by making us stop desiring it and and stop praying for it.

1 hour ago, Alan Hales said:

[2]Because God doesn't lead anyone into temptation, See Matt 6: 13.  James 1: 12--13.

The most correct translation is "do not abandon us into temptation". Anyway, until God will separate completely satan from us, and throwing him into the lake of fire, we are still subject to temptations, so we are asking God to separate us from the evil one once and for all. This leads to the next point:

1 hour ago, Alan Hales said:

[3]Jesus has already delivered us from the evil one. Col 1: 13. and we are to resist the devil. James 4: 7. 1 Pet5: 8--9. Please note, We are to do the resisting, God didn't say He will do it for us.

No, we are still subject to the devil attacks. But one day Jesus will deliver us from the devil forever, and we are asking for the coming of that Glorious Day:

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. ³² All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. ³³ He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. [...]

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25)

This is gonna be the final deliverance from the evil one, regardless of what already happened in your imagination, because right now the evil one is still causing devastating damages in terms of lost souls, suffering, famine, disasters. etc. etc.

Instead of fighting this holy hope by spreading ideas that everything already happened and by attacking the Lord's prayer, the prayer of God incarnated, you could join the prayer to hasten it (2 Peter 3:12, Luke 18:1-8)

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!"

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. (Revelation 22 17, 20)
 

Thy Kingdom come. Maranatha.

1 hour ago, Alan Hales said:

Christians don't pray the "Our Father"

[1]Because the Kingdom of God  has already come, It came on the day of Pentecost, Either that, Or Jesus was telling lies, in Mk 9: 1, Because all those are dead now. The Kingdom of God is with us now, Rom 14: 17-18.

[2]Because God doesn't lead anyone into temptation, See Matt 6: 13.  James 1: 12--13.

[3]Jesus has already delivered us from the evil one. Col 1: 13. and we are to resist the devil. James 4: 7. 1 Pet5: 8--9. Please note, We are to do the resisting, God didn't say He will do it for us.

There are parts of the "Our Father" we can pray, such as, His will be done,  Matt 6: 10. Ask God for what we need. v 11. and if we sin, we can ask God to forgive us, v 12.

Thanks, what you have outlined is exactly the kind of ideas that are slowing down Jesus Return

Meanwhile billions of people suffer all over the world.

Whoever don' t hasten His Return, slows it down.

Congratulations for teaching the exact contrary of what Jesus said. With all my best efforts I wouldn' t be able to come out with the contrary of what Jesus taught so well as you did.

Jesus said to not waste words like the pagans, and pray the Lord prayer. If you understood the Lord prayer you wouldn' t throwing it away as you are doing.

Instead you are teaching how to waste words and how to NOT pray the Lord prayer.

But what Jesus said in Matthew 6, will NOT pass away.

Heaven and earth will pass away, as well as all human ideas, But His words will NOT pass away.

BEWARE of preterism and everything even slightly similar! 

Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.

People will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them.

For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other.

Now below this post I will leave quick answer to your points that try to destroy the Lord prayer, the prayer taught by God incarnated, in favour of human prayers against which God incarnated warned us:

Thanks @shiloh357 for warning us about these doctrines.

If someone would believe Jesus' suggestions on prayer in Matthew 6, he/she wouldn' t be subject to these "Bethel"-like doctrines, NOR to other distortions of prayer.

If someone would reason on how Jesus saw miracles (John 4:48, several other verses), not as the goal of His message But as a tool to demonstrate He was the son of God, he wouldn' t be subject to " Bethel"-like doctrines.

If someone would reason on the blessed hope of Jesus Return to wipe away every tear, he wouldn' t be subject to "Bethel"-like doctrines.

There is an hidden link between bethel-style doctrines and preterism.

They both unconsciously spread the lie that the Kingdom is on this earth, here and now, and that we are the ones who will fix the world problems with the power of God.

This is wrong on so many levels, and this belief delays the Return of the Lord because people who believe it don' t desire it anymore, NOR pray for it. (They don' t fulfill at all Luke 18:1-8)

Jesus never said that We will fix all problems.

Instead He said:

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, ¹¹ and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. ¹² Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,¹³ but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. ¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdomwill be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

19 minutes ago, hayleyv048 said:

Thank you.

I wish there was a starters guide to Christianity

The best starter guide is called "The Gospel", from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John

Other starters guides, even my own words, are filtered by men.

First read the Gospel with sincere seeking heart and you will find a lot!

Then read them again and again.

Then you can also read some other books written by men, but you will be more ready to judge if they are actually drawing from Jesus' words or not. For instance, on prayer you will find a lot of human considerations, sometimes completely against of what I reported you above from the Gospel of Matthew. You will find a lot of "long prayers" not different at all from the pagans' ones Jesus was warning against.

You will also find out that Jesus words and message are simple:

At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
 

Complications often arise from not accepting or not knowing what Jesus said, not from not understanding.

God bless you and your research!

That's a great question. The same question the disciples asked Jesus. (Luke 11:1-13)
These are His suggestions:

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. ⁶ But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. ⁷ And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. ⁸ Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

⁹ “This, then, is how you should pray:

On 8/20/2018 at 11:50 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

I was just thinking about the “unprecedented event,” and the realization that when we pray in the Pater Noster, “Thy Kingdom Come,” we are actually praying, “The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life.” (Revelation 22:17) and, “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!” (Revelation 22:20). I realized that in a commitment to pray this we are actually ushering forth the last trumpet and are trumpeters of sorts!, “it will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed,” (1 Corinthians 15:52), and “We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[g] 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.” (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18). 

When we pray “Thy Kingdom come,” and “come Lord Jesus,” we are calling for the trumpets to blow and eventually the last trumpet when Christ will descend on the clouds! 

@listener24 

This is such an awesome and encouraging realization!

How glorious will be, for those who would be alive at the last trumpet call, being part of that with their holy prayer "come!".

That is exactly what we are doing, and part of what Peter described as "hastening the Return of the Lord". (2 Peter 3:12)

So many people just tried to "guess" dates, that's not Scriptural.

Instead, it's time to get Scriptural and become part of the "hasteners"

Let's prepare the way for the Lord again!

16 minutes ago, Davida said:

There Is no Bible based ecumenical movement imo--- where is it? Who specifically does it include? Many may denominations or persons claim they believe the Bible is the final authority but we can see they DO Not actually believe scripture or follow it, cherry- picking, or claiming Apostle Paul was not speaking by the Holy Spirit are some examples of this. 

There is "bad" ecumenism and "good" ecumenism.

I agree that a lot is bad and I share your concern as well, I definitely don't want to compromise the Truth.

An example that there is good ecumenism is this:

"Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us. "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

Now, consider this: it's ok to make known to our siblings, when they believe obvious lies, that they are wrong.

But there is also division on ridiculous issues as well. Do we need to be divided around "pre-post-past-multi-anti tribulation" issues? When Jesus in the Gospel just asks us to be aware of false prophets, and to speed up his Return with an holy life?

I find a shame being divided on this and I found funny that no one even on this forum completely agree on all the details of the aforementioned issue.

Whoever is hastening the Return of the Lord (2 Peter 3:12, Luke 18:1-8, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:5-13) is doing his job, regardless if his view is pre-post-past-anti-multi-pluri tribulation. (only exception here is for preterism-like doctrines: those doctrines slow down the Return of the Lord by deceiving people in believing that the Lord has already come, which is the most dangerous belief)

I don't find that a "smart" issue to be divided on, so ecumenism in that direction is to be encouraged, when the issues are so hard to have the last word on.

But on issues which are pretty clear (like idolatry), then ecumenism is not a good thing, we should firmly state the Truth on these issues which are so obvious from the Scriptures

9 hours ago, Jayne said:

Once in hell, the lost person does not "turn to God" for mercy.  He/she is in their natural state for eternity.  Eternally the enemy of God

this is the only point that really matters.

The fact that they will never want to be God's friend, and they will continue to want to be evildoers. Therefore they are dangerous, and they can't stay in the same place with people who listen to God's suggestions.

hey all, just wanted to suggest few distinctions.

1) Ecumenism is often used with bad intents and bad effects. Whenever it is used to "compromise" on the Truth, then is not healthy. There is a lot of this "bad" ecumenism going on, and we shouldn't be part of it.

2) There is a lot of worldliness growing in Christianity. People who proclaim that the Kingdom already started. They are not only from preterism, they are from all sort of denominations. That's the main attack going on the Truth. There is a reason why this is spreading so much: is the last attempt of the enemy to stop the last revival that will lead to his demise. This leads to point 3

3) I've recently read a book that says that the question in Luke 18:1-8,

" And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. ⁷ And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? ⁸ I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"

, this very question, even if on one hand is referred to every Christian, on the other hands is referred especially to the last generation alive at the Return of the Lord, as the eschatological tone of the whole parable communicates.

So the book says that in the last days there will be oneness among true Christians, and that would be a sign that "the Bride has made herself ready", in addition to the sign of the unified prayer "Thy Kingdom come. Come quickly, Lord Jesus"

4) wherever this prayer for the Return of the Lord will spread, in every denomination, it will show that the believer praying it are not falling into "worldliness". Those believer will show to be one in their desire for the Lord to become King.

5) Whoever instead will fight this prayer, will unmask his worldliness, and will show to be exactly like in the parable:

""But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'" (Luke 19:14)

These "christians" will unite themselves in their worldliness, trying to delay the Return of the King instead of hastening it as Peter suggests (2Peter 3:12), but nothing good will come out of it.

Meanwhile true Christians will unite in the desire of the Kingdom, and spread the real "good novel of the Kingdom"

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

6) In short: Truth must come first, ecumenism will just be a result of it for true Christians. Ecumenism in false doctrines will lead to nothing good. We can recognize true Christians by their worldliness vs desire for the Kingdom.

When the Bride makes herself ready in the Bible she says "The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!"" (Revelation 22:17). This is a cry that will spread through all the true believers, while the worldly ones will try to fight it to delay their defeat