HikerMom

Good morning @GandalfTheWise Sorry it has taken me so long to respond! I've been off the grid in Glacier Park for about a week. There is SO much wisdom in all you say. I really don't know all of God's plan in this mess I've been in. Just trying to walk by faith and wait for him. I suspect that in many ways I am still trying to fix the insomnia unconsciously and God is waiting for me to truly let go... As for the church situation, I am just going day to day walking by faith. It just seems to me that God is telling me no as far as going to another church. I really do believe it would be easier to change if it were His plan for me. My husband doesn't want to change which is another big roadblock. He is pretty insistent that he isn't leaving, and sitting with him in church is just such a special time for me. God will give me what I need. The Lord is my shepherd. Blessings, Gandalf and anyone else following this thread!

Good morning, @seekingGod97 I just noticed this thread and wanted to respond.... I will just give you my thoughts. I don't think anxiety is a sin. Fear is simply part of our existence but God wants to grow us and help us conquer fear. Perfect love casts out fear. That is what He has done in my life in the past and what He is doing again at my life at a different level now. Henry Cloud has a quote that really helped me.... "It's funny how we try to control anxiety when giving up control is what cures anxiety." I believe it is counterproductive to try to control anxiety...I think it makes it worse. As for doubt. I have often heard doubt being described as the opposite of faith. Actually that was in a lesson at our church just yesterday. But I do not believe this is true. Doubt is part of any faith journey. We need to feed our faith of course and starve the doubt with God's truth and by trusting in His promises. If we feed the doubt then eventually we may give up our faith. But questions are normal. Look at the Psalms. The Psalmists frequently question God but usually end with remembering His promises and His love, and by making decisions to continue to put heir hope in Him. The character of God makes this possible for us. He is SO trustworthy. I once heard a speaker say that the opposite of faith is not doubt, it's actually having all the answers. I SO believe this to be true. When we walk by faith, we don't have all the answers...we are forced to make a choice to to trust Him and step out on the waters trusting He will not let us sink. We keep our eyes on Him and not the storm surrounding us as Peter did. When Peter looked at the waves, he started to sink. So we keep our eyes fixed on Jesus. We trust that whatever happens, God will use it for our good...(Romans 8:28!!) This is what I believe SeekingGod97, but I share it knowing I still have more to learn...

On a positive note....I slept 8 really good hours last night...Praise the Lord, I do believe He is healing me...

Thanks, Gandalf. Small groups are pretty much over for the summer. I am thinking of attending a Celebrate Recovery group just to be someplace healing for awhile. I am praying for wisdom and God is faithful to answer. I still think the depression is mostly me not wanting to go back and try to make it work or wishing I hadn't messed it up in the first place. What a mess we can get ourselves into. I haven't had a chance to ask my husband yet. He has been working a 32 hour shift so I am waiting for him to catch up on sleep. I have a feeling he will say leave it alone for now. Right now I feel like I should be patient and give things some time. The depression after church was better this Sunday and so I am hopeful that in time, I will feel better. I am just going to keep trying to do what I think God wants me to do. But I would value your insights as well...

@MadHermit Thanks so much for your encouragement. I definitely believe in prayer! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me!! Blessings!

@GandalfTheWise I need a bit of advice. I attended church today for the second time since deciding to reconnect. And I went to lunch with a group after services. When I got home the depression was really intense. Not as bad as last week but still bad. I think it is just feeling disconnected. And I think partly I really struggle with not wanting to connect still. Anyway, it was rough. I also felt as I have before that there may be a few people angry with me though I don't know the exact reason. Maybe they have heard I attended another church recently or something negative I have said about our church. I don't know. So I don't know whether to go to them and ask if something is wrong or just give things some time. I think part of the depression is anger at myself for getting myself into this position again. I've wanted to leave in the past and it din't work out. My thinking is that if God was fine with me leaving that church, things would have been much easier. And I can see that I'd still have the same issue of really needing to learn to love people that are difficult for me. I am praying about it but also want your thoughts on whether I should go to someone and find out if I have offended them and apologize. Or should I just keep going and working on loving and connecting and give God time to soften their hearts if they are angry. It would be SO much easier if they would just come to me and talk with me rather than ignore me. I know it is possible that I am imagining it but I doubt it. I was fairly free of depression all week until after church again today...

I'm so glad you are feeling better @turtletwo!!

@turtletwo Saying a prayer for God to give you insight and wisdom into this feeling you have and how to change it!! Blessings and peace be with you!!

@GandalfTheWise Sounds like your wife is an amazing lady! One thousand miles!! Wow!! I think my issues are a bit different from yours. I have never had much trouble being the "overachieving" type. What I really have always struggled with is procrastination. I don't have any trouble just wasting a day.... Now I have started making a list of goals each day that I want to accomplish the next day. That one tiny step of writing down what I want to accomplish has improved my procrastination greatly. It feels good to get things accomplished and to bless my family in that way. Since making the decision to return to church, my depression has improved greatly. And I have once again refocused on not allowing myself to feel any self pity. I think those decisions are making me feel almost normal again. I slept decent last night but nothing like normal. I believe that God is trying to do a work in this to make me a stronger person and to grow my faith and trust in Him. He will heal me in His time. I just keep reminding myself that He is doing this work in me right now and that I will not feel sorry for myself... And it feels like I am getting stronger emotionally. I used to be a Hospice volunteer, and I am a believer in allowing yourself to grieve. But there comes a time when it becomes self pity. I think maybe that is what has happened to me in this process. I went from focusing on it all the time and trying to fix it, to grieving about not being able to fix it, to getting crazy busy to try not to think about it, and then back to grieving it again. Exhausting! Now I am feeling much more normal again..so I THINK I am getting where God wants me.... We will see! He is faithful to show me what I need to do to grow and find healing, I believe... Thanks so much for all of your encouragement, Gandalf!!

@AnOrangeCat Thanks so much for the encouragement. Yes, I definitely think it centers around anxiety. But the unresolved anger hasn't helped. The depression is SO much better as I am working on that issue. But the insomnia has gotten a bit worse the past week or so. Now it is mostly fear of not sleeping and then not feeling well the next day. Yesterday I hiked 8 miles in Glacier Park gaining 2300 feet in elevation. You would have thought that then I would sleep...but no, I slept 5-6 hours at most. But I am determined today not to feel sorry for myself. To keep remembering how God is trying to do something good in this. Yes, I am praying for healing but I know that sleep is the secondary issue. He is trying to grow me to be ok with whatever He has planned for my life. It is a valuable lesson, and I will be stronger in the end for having gone through this....And I am thankful that the depression part is lessening quite a bit... Blessings, brother or sister??

Awesome!! Saying a prayer SeekingGod! Please let us know how things turn out!!

Just noticed that somehow I missed the detail about you being a witness to a sin....still, I think that it is all too vague for me to try to help. Is there any wise older trustworthy Christian whom you can talk to in more detail and get advice from? I don't believe you would be wrong to share with another trustworthy person if your motive is to figure out what you should do. I just hate for you to let your anxiety get out of control! Here is the scripture that comes to mind because it has been so relevant for me recently... If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind." James 1: 5-6 Ask God for His wisdom and give Him time to shape your thoughts before acting...

SeekingGod....I don't think it could hurt to be more specific on this private forum. It would be pretty anonymous. There are times when I have had fear when I needed to do the right thing. And there are times I've had fear because I was about to do something that was wrong. And sometimes I just wasn't using good judgement. That is why it is hard to advise you without more information. Saying a prayer for God to give you wisdom!!

It's hard to give any advice without knowing the details. James says that if we ask for wisdom then God will give it to us. You could seek someone you trust and look up to in the faith and give them the specifics and seek their advice. It's just hard to say without knowing the details. Are you having trouble forgiving someone? The book of Ecclesiastes says there is a time to speak and a time to be silent. It is a discernment issue and that takes maturity. Ask God to give you wisdom on your motives and maybe share specifically with and older, more mature Christian...those are my thoughts! Blessings!

Can you give more specifics about the situation?

@GandalfTheWise Thanks so much for your response! Glad to hear the move is going well. I think I have a little more perspective today on the depression. I really think it is similar to your second experience where God was really refining you over the anger issue. It is a surrendering to Him on a few different fronts. I have struggled with anger at this church over the years. And I even left the church at one point but eventually came back when it didn't work out. This last go around really began over my daughter's situation. So I was angry at my church and terrified my daughter was going to commit suicide. I have really, really been a mess. think God is trying to show me that He will take care of me and to accept whatever His plan for me in life is. And He also wants me to come to forgiveness. I am not sure whether God cares what specific church we go to...But it seems to me that maybe He has placed me in this particular church for His purposes. I really believe that when He puts people together, He is trying to do something in the lives of both parties. I wish I could write it or explain it as eloquently as you, but that is what I think He is wanting from me out of this awful trial....He allowed me to go without sleep to get my attention. He wants me to accept His plans for my life, to grow my trust of Him, and to deal better with anger. Here I believe you are talking about identity in Christ. I struggled with that in the past and eventually came to much the same place as you....knowing the value, worth and uniqueness of every single person God created. Maybe I forgot it as I was holding anger towards my church here. I don't know. It is ok to be angry..just not to stay that way and not to act on it in a way that is hurtful to others. Now I am waiting for God to help me mend those relationships and to be used for the purpose He created me. I know I am an encourager and that gift has gone somewhat to waste recently. But I know He will make a way for me, and hopefully in the process, my sleep will return! I have just been studying Ecclesiastes and this was one of the major themes, Gandalf...."So I commend the enjoyment of life, because there is nothing better for a person under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany them in their toil all the days of the life God has given them under the sun." Ecclesiastes 8:15 This really resonates with me right now. I have just been so incredibly frustrated with Christians in general. I want people to be nicer, less critical, less judgmental. I can be an encouragement, but only God can change hearts and right now He REALLY is working on mine to free me from this bitterness about this towards Christians. When our relationships with others suffer, then our relationship with God suffers. Yes, I agree. I just need to be patient as God works His healing....Thanks, Gandalf!! You have been an encouragement! Please pray for me as you think of me! Blessings!!

Doing much, much better this morning. I spent a few hours awake in the night thinking about things and feeling like God is showing me just how much I've messed this particular situation up. ? He will make a way. I may need to talk with a few people that may be feeling offended which doesn't exactly sound appealing. I will give it time though. People in my church tend to ignore you when they are angry rather than coming to you. I will give it time and ask God to show me the way. The main thing is to do whatever I feel God showing me to do. How anyone else handles things is between them and God. I did make amends with an old friend as well over the weekend. It felt good. Not sure that she is totally a safe person, but I will give it a shot again and will try addressing boundary violations if they happen.... So important I think to try to talk things out. Reading a book called, "Unoffendable." SUCH a great book to encourage handling anger and offense well. Blessings! And I hope your move is going well, Gandalf!

Here are my thoughts dr3032. Ask God to help you forgive your parents and don't hold back this part of yourself from them. I know they let you down, but for your own sake you need to forgive them. I hope you will find a good church home somewhere where you can love and be loved in return! Christians need one another to make it through life! You need to be part of a church family where you can give and receive support. Ask God to help you forgive people...listen to one who regrets having unforgiveness. It spills out on all parts of your life. You don't want to be in that prison. It is normal for it to feel like you are losing when you forgive...Let God be the one to deal with your parents. You could try to tell them how they have hurt you and see if they could understand. But you would have to know they may not react in a Christ like way. You might not be able to get that deep connection with them that you desire. But in my experience, God more than makes up for what we don't get from our parents!! He will put healing people in your life. Trust Him. Ask for His help. I think you are VERY wise to be asking advice...I am sure others will have more valuable advice than me. Blessings!!

Thanks for sharing, Gandolph! I definitely have had an issue feeling pretty angry about Christians being critical. I think it probably stems from the fact that I am a "recovering Pharisee" and also the fact that I see that as a factor in my daughter's decision to become an atheist. I've always thought Jesus got pretty angry at the Pharisees in Scripture. But I can see now how much I dwelt on that anger rather than asking God to help me forgive. Today after I left from church, I felt the depression again. I only slept a few hours last night, so I am not sure if the depression is from lack of sleep or just discouragement again. Or if it could be some other anger issue I am not recognizing? I know I left church with the feeling of not being a part of that community. So maybe it is just going to take time? Maybe I am expecting to get healing too soon. I have deprived myself of Christian community for a long time. It is no wonder that I don't feel a part. And maybe it is just going to take time for the feelings of forgiveness to come around even though I am moving in that direction now. Anyway...looking back on my original decision to leave a few years ago (I didn't really leave but just slowly pulled back), I felt a ton of anxiety about it and wanted to find support that I was making the right decision. I see all that now as a sign that deep down, I was pretty sure it was a bad decision. I never do well without community. Maybe there is a healthier church out there, but to leave my church because I was angry was a terrible decision. I spoke with a KLove pastor yesterday who recommended me reading, "Bait of Satan," by John Bevere. I started reading but theologically it was hard for me. So I ordered Brant Hansens's book called, "Unoffendable." I just started reading it and like it much better. Both books are on the same topic. Gandolph, I am so encouraged by your testimony. I definitely believe God is "dealing with me" as He did you. I just have to trust that God will make a way for me....Please share any insight you may have from reading this and also what is an FWIW?

I have terrific news if anyone has been reading this. My depression with this has been so severe at times that I've indulged in suicidal thoughts. I had talked with two counselors in the past who thought that none of my issues were related to me wanting to leave my church. I was told by one of them that I was just grieving not having control over my sleep...not being able to fix it. That did resonate with me but I have always believed that if a person is depressed, they need to make changes. I felt I had done a pretty good job accepting the insomnia but continued to really, REALLY struggle with depression. I have been doing all the "right" things. Getting up and being productive, reading the Bible and serving others. But STILL this horrible depression. So yesterday I told God that I would go back to my church, even though I don't agree with all their beliefs and have been terribly hurt by how they treated my daughter who is gay. Don't get me wrong, I would never attend a church that said acting on homosexuality was not a sin. I would not go somewhere where they were basically saying to gay people to act on it, to destroy themselves. But at the same time, the attitude of condemnation (which I have seen also on this forum) is painful and does nothing to help a person who struggles with homosexuality. When people talk about gay people as gross or disgusting or even saying their behavior is gross or disgusting it hurts the person and their family who dearly loves them terribly. Slander and gossip and condemnation are just as ugly. If neither you nor someone you love deeply has ever struggled with this issue, you should be grateful. And if we have not struggled with it, we should be careful how we talk about it. Anyway, my first thought about returning to my church was that I felt that I was betraying my daughter. That made me think I had some unforgiveness still to deal with in my heart. But I decided maybe God is trying to tell me to go back and just love people where they are at--just as I want Christians to do for my daughter. I immediately began to feel a weight lifted off of me. And over a day later, I still am feeling free of depression...even though my sleep is still not back to normal. I don't know if the depression will return, but I suspect not. I think this is just one more step toward healing for me!! Praise God! I hope this will one day help someone else dealing with insomnia...

Acacia--If you think any of these things may be contributing to stress in your life, Henry Cloud has great books that can help. You can also follow him on facebook. jen

I do believe God is beginning to really heal me. About 3-4 days ago I experienced another day of such deep depression over this. I decided to sing praises again and what relief. Such peace. 1to3 I used your song once as well. God has shown me that there is a way to peace in all circumstances. Not that He will necessarily change the circumstances unless it is His will. But that peace may be found in any circumstance of life. I do believe that He wants to heal this completely in His time....It is all about fear. Fear of His will. This is about a surrendering to whatever His will is for my life. Philippians 4:6-7. The decision to praise Him in all circumstances is vital to our peace.

Ask God to help you with your fears, Acacia! I think when I used to have bad dreams a lot, it came from not knowing how much God loved me. I suffered a very low self esteem because of my troubled childhood. Growing up in a dysfunctional environment created a lot of fear in me. Then I was always so afraid of what others thought. Afraid of failure. Afraid of so many things. Also sometimes I think taking on too many responsibilities created stress. Most of the reason I took on so much was the inability to say no. I was so afraid of someone disliking me or speaking ill of me that I could never say no. What I ended up neglecting was my own husband, my children, and taking care of myself as well. That created a lot of stress and I ended up with bad dreams. A couple of times also there were traumatic events that caused bad dreams. And the stress of unforgiveness created bad dreams. I don't like horror movies but occasionally have watched them with my daughter in order to spend time with her. I do not believe they were ever the source of anything more than one night's difficulty. The REAL issues were not knowing how much God loved me, People pleasing, and unforgiveness and guilt. Unfortunately I think sometimes we tend to focus on minor issues--not saying watching horror movies is a good idea!!--rather than on the soul killers like greed, gossip, jealousy, envy, anger, hatred, unforgiveness, bitterness. To me this is what Jesus is saying to the Pharisees when He says that they neglect the weightier matters of the law. They "strain out a gnat" and then "swallow a camel." Matthew 23:24. They clean the outside but not the inside. Philippians 4:6-7 have been wonderful verses for me recently. Read them and notice the part about thanksgiving. Praise music is incredibly healing. If I were you I would consider some godly counseling. You very likely could have some forgiveness issues....maybe you don't know who you are in Christ...You sound like you are VERY hard on yourself which is not helpful at all. We ALL sin DAILY and are continually and forever in need of God's grace. I hope this helps. God Loves you sister!!! Saying a prayer for you this morning!

Yesterday morning I had made a determination not to give in to self-pity any longer. I have told God often how much insomnia hurts, but I really felt that I needed to make sure I was not allowing myself to feel pity for myself any longer about this. I went on a hike with friends in Glacier Park, but that morning and on the way home from the park I felt so much depression. When I got home, I spent time asking God to give me peace no matter my circumstances. After a good cry and asking for peace I felt much better. I did some singing and it lifted my spirits so much. Reading a wonderful book called, "Hind's Feet on High Places." It is a theology of suffering. Last night I read chapter 12. In this chapter, the main character called "Much-Afraid" begins singing praises to God in order to drown out the voices of her enemies--Fear, Bitterness, Resentment, Pride and Self-Pity. Thankfully I slept really, really well last night. But God is in charge, and I know I can't MAKE sleep happen. So I am determined to not have self-pity to the best of my ability. I find that singing praise songs really does help me hang on and sometimes really brings me hope.

Thanks to both of you for the concerns! What a great song 1to3. Praise songs really help me right now...so I will definitely add that one to my list!!