Follower Of Jesus

Jesus isn't the Father.

Jesus isn't the father.

If they don't understand, let them be. Keep from vain arguments and strife.

I did.

I understand that, everyone makes this point. Like I said, did Jesus know before incarnating as a man? Does Jesus currently in heaven, know the final hour? If the answer is yes to both, then essentially Jesus would know the final hour. If he did, then the Spirit who guided Jesus, wouldn't have told him to say "only the Father knows", as a general statement. Let's ask then, does the Holy Spirit know the final hour? If you're a trinitarian, this puts you in a tight spot. No one has a direct answer. I'm starting to realize no one ever will, because this knowledge is probably hidden.

When you give quotes like these, as everyone else did. You need to explain how this references my question. Verse 29 is referring to no one being able to steal your personal salvation. Maybe you're referring to "my Father is greater than all". Which doesn't answer anything. Verse 30, is speaking on a ontological level. Which only makes my question stand out stronger. I have to spend my time guessing what people mean with these irrelevant quotes, because no one explains their position.

This is a deep question, that needs more than simple answers. The "answers" people gave, weren't correct. You keep calling these answers truth, but that doesn't make it so. Like I said kindly to everyone else, if you don't have the answer. Move on please. I don't want to create strife, and we're not on the subject anymore. It's become, 'I said: you said".

You're saying Jesus gave up his knowledge when he became human, or atleast that particular knowledge. Let's explore that. Did Jesus have a divine knowledge in human form? He could read minds, know peoples lives before having met them, forgive sins, command nature, raise the dead, etc. Then you might say, "He did those things by the Spirit". When did he get the Spirit? When he was baptized around age 30. Let's look at Matthew, where a young Jesus was full of wisdom, teaching in the temple. Where did he get this knowledge? Are you saying Jesus gave up certain knowledge? Now another perspective. If in fact the Spirit guided Jesus in his last years, what to do and say. Then the SPIRIT told him to say, "only the Father knows". That was said as a general fact. Otherwise Jesus would be lying, because he would know that he knew before incarnating, and would know after exaltation. When Jesus taught, he taught in a foreknowledge. When he taught the moral law, he taught it before it was finished. When he broke bread, he did it before it was finished. Then you can't say, what Jesus taught of himself or the Father, was only for that period of his life (temporary teachings that would fall away). If truly Jesus knew when the final hour was, the Spirit wouldn't direct him to say, "only the Father knows", which would be permanently sealed in scripture. The issue with people trying to explain this, isn't a lack of comprehension of the verse. It's that the true meaning of the verse, doesn't suit very many doctrines. So people must manipulate, and twist their explanation to fit their doctrines. Scripture was written to be understood simply. If you need 5 pages of writing to explain a single verse, you probably don't know it.

Answering questions I didn't ask. I recommend reading my original question again.

And the word said... "only the Father knows the hour"

I understand that, but it wouldn't make sense why he says, "only the Father knows". We can put it into perspective: did Jesus know the final hour before he became man? If he did, then not only the Father knows, and I would doubt he was speaking for that moment. That "the Father only know's for the time being". Because in the same chapter he was prophesying, and he included angels not knowing. He said it as a general fact. Many say, "That through the Spirit, Jesus had powers". If that's so, then the Spirit also said, through Jesus that "only the Father knows". Meaning IN DIVINE KNOWLEDGE, Jesus spoke by the Spirit. Jesus wasn't speaking personally, that "I don't know when the Final hour is...for now, only the Father knows, but I will know later".

We can end it here. We're not debating my original question anymore. Only creating strife about vain, "I did: you did". If you don't have an answer, move along.

You re-phrased your last post. "You're wrong". "I'm not going to explain myself" "Bye" Giving an out of context verse, and leaving it at that with no explanation, doesn't automatically make you right.

That's a great way to leave a discussion. Say, "you're wrong". Without giving evidence and explanation of evidence. Then leaving.

I was quoting myself, re-establishing my point. What I said in my quote, is what you can find in scripture. I paraphrased in summary, the qualities Jesus maintained. However others say, "He maintained everything, except one thing"

If the Father told Jesus not to reveal when the hour would come, Jesus wouldn't say "only the Father knows". He would say, "I was told not to reveal it". Jesus doesn't lie and doesn't speak to confuse. What many don't consider is Jesus usually spoke from a prophetic position. When he gave commandments, he gave the post-crucifixion commandments, before everything was finished. When he had the last supper, before crucifixion. When he prophesied about the trials to come, the temples destruction, persecution. These are all foreknown by Jesus. This then also includes His, not-knowing of the final hour. In Mathew 7, when he was speaking of these things, he was prophesying. In his prophecy, he said "only the Father knows". Then you can't say, he didn't know just for that time. Therefore, Jesus maintained His Godly all-knowing knowledge as a human. He still knew of everything of heaven, of everything divine and everything kept secret. The question is, why does he know everything except that one fact.

I comprehend them and I see you probably Googled for some verses, without reading them in context, nor understanding how they defend your own point. Saying "sorry you don't comprehend them", is a poor excuse to not explain what point your were making by them. Unless you're so busy you have no time to really discuss matter. You're just here to throw verses around. Along with that, you ignored my points. Which again were, "On earth in human form, He still maintained divine authority, commanding nature, forgiving sins, casting out demons, etc. He could read the minds of others, and knew the lives of those who he never met."

Your verse quotes are actually working against whatever point you're trying to make. Throwing quotes around without explaining how they defend your point, is vain. If you don't have a straight answer, that's fine. Move along.

Doesn't help your position. My question still stands.

I gave you scripture. "On earth in human form, He still maintained divine authority, commanding nature, forgiving sins, casting out demons, etc. He could read the minds of others, and knew the lives of those who he never met." Unless you're telling me, he maintained all of those Godly powers...except the one.

On earth in human form, He still maintained divine authority, commanding nature, forgiving sins, casting out demons, etc. He could read the minds of others, and knew the lives of those who he never met. He put himself in human nature. He didn't renounce his authority.

Is the Father God? Yes. Is the Holy Spirit God? Yes. Is Jesus God? Yes. Is God all-knowing? Yes. Then why does only the Father know when the final hour will be?

He that is not against us, is for us. He that does not gather with us, scatters abroad. "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican" Likewise if a member in your church sins, confront them. Don't jump from church to church when you find sin. Unless the church's foundation is on sand. If your church's foundation is built on the cornerstone Jesus Christ set true, the Holy Spirit will deal with sin accordingly. For all members of the body of Christ are the church.

"For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it." Would Jesus lie to save you? You're living on the wrong planet if you think so. JESUS SAID: WHOM DO YE SEEK? WE SEEK JESUS OF NAZARETH HERE I. AM.

You would need to ask a sinner for help. Not me. I'm not sinning for you to keep your life. Whoever keeps their life will lose it. Whoever loses it, will keep it.