lftc

SeraTeru, I read the the trail of your posts. May Jesus lift you up, my brother. I see the tracks of a man in the grips of an issue larger than his ability to restrain. We are all there, if we have the wisdom to see it. I have no right to speak into your life - none at all. But I feel compelled to, so please read my post here in the tone in which it is sent: Love and Compassion. As I said above, we all have the opportunity to face our own failures before God. I strongly believe that each of us has areas that are not in compliance with the rules God has introduced. Unfortunately, for many people their areas are socially acceptable, and their doctrines build a custom set of rules that allow them to judge themselves approved on their own strength. Many in that situation can interact reasonably well with other people while they are in the grips of their weakness. In situations like yours, struggles with alcohol and other substances, the restraint from saying and doing mean things is removed to a large extent. Your anger you express in your post I quoted above is a natural result of the hopelessness of being caught in a cycle that hurts others around you while in the grips of the weakness, then feeling the shame and embarassment of realizing your public display of weakness when you awaken from the episode. You desparately need love from people and so you keep reaching out. Only to viciously rip at those who are brave enough to reach out. Here on the forum, you could realize that moderator review may be helpful. When caught in the weakness, you will post things that will drive people away. I don't know how long the moderators will allow, but at least for a time you can continue to communicate with people during your times of relative strength. Your real life is much more difficult, there is no-one sitting ready to filter out the destruction that comes from the weakness. But there could be. My prayer is that you find some people who love other people and help them fight these terrible weaknesses that a person alone cannot overcome. There are some of us online, but that won't work for your real life. Your real life is precious to God. You are no more a piece of trash than I am. You are worth fighting for. Make the choice during the time of less weakness to take steps towards freedom. Real steps in your real life that is really loved by the real Jesus. You noted above who Jesus identified as accepted by God in Luke. Now gather your faith and believe it. In the real Kingdom of Heaven, you stand among those redeemed at the Cross of the Christ. Nothing can remove that standing. Now believe it and feel His love. And let his Love fill your needs. Then you will be able to start fighting your way out of the pit that not only destroys you but the people around you. As all of our weaknesses do, just some faster and more obvious than others.

This world is so dark and hideously evil. I keep looking for a glimmer, a ray of light breaking through. I'll keep looking. May God Bless you.

Prodigal Son, I am glad to hear of the path you are taking. You are not useless junk on this earth. You are precious to God and anyone who knows God. Sounds like the steps you are taking are good steps. Above all try to grasp how wide and deep is the Love of Jesus. A significant problem I see is that people start on a good path full of energy and determination to finally get beyond the failures. And I am not talking just about drug use. But when they experience weakness and fail, a crisis occurs. It is a crisis because the failure indicates that the person is not capable of succeeding. Eventually this leads to despair. And when you hate yourself because of your failures, you will look for love or relief elsewhere, anywhere. The ultimate solution is to know the Love of Jesus, which was expressed by forgiving all our sins, once for all. When I make a mistake, I gather my faith and choose to believe that he has forgiven me and ALL IS WELL between me and him. He still loves me like he did before. Takes a lot of faith to believe that. Especially when their are groups of accusers to hold your sins against you. The groups you are involved in sound like people that are NOT accusers. That is life. Be blessed friend. I look forward to meeting you one fine day.

John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. context: Think of a timeline of Jesus' presence with the disciples, and his statements to them. He makes this statement in his first appearance to the group after his crucifixion and ressurection. They heard him say a couple things at their last meeting with Jesus. At least those disciples hiding in the crowd, having not stood with him at his trial, torture and carrying the cross, miserable failures like me. That last meeting with Jesus would be tearing at the fabric of their beings. One of the things Jesus said was "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do". Did Jesus mean just the Roman soldiers fulfilling the Law of Rome and Judea? I am sure that the disciples would be thinking of themselves, as we all should be. As "orthodox" (latin for correct opinion) christians, we believe that Jesus death on the Cross forgave all sins. The disciples don't quite grasp that yet (as we see from all the fighting recorded in Acts, etc). But Jesus fully grasps that. In fact this is his first teaching after sins of the world are forgiven. What sins remain? (unabashedly leading question) Matthew 12, gives us the answer. using archaic language "All manner of sin will be forgiven men" (at the cross) "Except the blasphemy against the Spirit" (blashemy is basically a synonym for slander). Jesus goes on to say "but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come". All sin was forgiven at the cross. Except speaking against or denying the ministry of the Holy Spirit. The context for this statement of Jesus, is the Pharisees saying that Jesus is not the Son of God but in fact is working with one of the chief regional demons/prinicpalities. In other words, they are taking the path that christians believe is the path that results in eternal separation from God. The unforgiven Sin. The Gospel is that Jesus died for the sins of the world. In that room in John 20: - Jesus reminds them of the horror of the last meeting with Jesus - shows them his wounds (that paid for their sins, although they don't get it yet, but they will as the Holy Spirit starts to guide them into truth) - Jesus speaks "Peace be with you" This was not a greeting, it was a divine command. I believe peace flooded the room. Forgiveness is more powerful than all the acusations, even when you abandoned your precious Jesus and watched him die in agony while you hid in the crowd. Peace through forgiveness. - Jesus says he is sending them. Like he did before but this time armed with the Gospel. - Jesus breathes the Holy Spirit into them. You know the one that slander against is the only unforgiven sin. The Spirit that leads people to ackowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, the Savior of the world. - Then he says our topic statement, but allow me to say in the context of what I have proposed here: "When you bring bring the light of the gospel to people, their remaining sin is removed" I could be wrong. You weigh it and decide. I am merely "wind in dry grass". I wish peace for you all.

I take it from this statement that your affair with someone was not forgiven and you have been sent to prison for your failure to keep the commandments of God, or otherwise persecuted. I don't know the if laws of your country are as strict, but in many countries such activities are a capital crime. My view is that your sin has been forgiven by God, and anyone not in alignment with God is making a mistake. My true and deep hope is that you feel deeply the love of Jesus. There is no other path to peace than the love of Jesus. I too struggle under similar burdens. Love to you, beautiful and precious person.

There are many resources for reading about such things, although caution is needed: as with anything on the web these days, read many before allowing yourself to form an opninion. THe excersize of studying a word, its definitions and history (etomology) is helpful in understanding many parts of our existence, including the scriptures. However, it took years of such study before some concepts finally coalesced in my mind. Not that I am any kind of a model ("rats feet over broken glass" and other such). I'll write here my summaries for your use if you find them helpful. Rhetoric is a very old word and consequently has several nuanced meanings. The broadest sense is simply the art of communicating effectively. Rhetoric was a required series of courses in the early western universities. People who study language, human communications and other related topics develop ways of categorizing what they observe. When studying how people communicate (rhetoric) they observed and named several common techniques. They call these techniques "devices". One of the common devices is a question where the answer is assumed. Since it is a part of rhetoric, they called it a "rhetorical question". That is the simple answer. But allow me to go further: since rhetoric is the ART of communicating EFFECTIVELY, any rhetorical device must work towards that goal. Since a rhetorical question is a question that assumes an answer, it is necessary that the speaker and the listener share the assumed answer, otherwise the speaker's entire message can be misunderstood, or considered by the listener to be false. In other words, if the listener does not agree with the answer assumed by the speaker, the listener will likely disagree with the entire statement. And the art of rhetoric looks more like a jackson pollock painting. (no offense to any Pollock fans, in fact, I assume my rhetoric as presented on this forum may be somewhat like Pollock's visual art). Hopefully that above paragraphs at least make it clear that a rhetorical question is: - a communication technique, intended to help convey a concept - a question that has an assumed answer - the concept will only be conveyed if a similar answer is assumed by the speaker and the listener In your post you stated "Again, this doesn't mean the Bible, but suppose someone asks you something you know they know (or at least should) the answer to" You could be refering to any number of posts on this forum. You could be using the same exact technique with me here. You could be asking a question related to your relationships and conversation. But rather than take your question as a LEADING question, I will answer it on the assumption that someone was asking you a question that they insisted was a rhetorical question. Everyone uses rhetorical questions a lot. Or at least they attempt to use them. Sometimes very nicely. Sometimes the rhetoric part fails as the question does not indicate a clear conclusion. For example, imagine you are sitting in a cafe in Harare, listening to 3 fellows discuss politics: - FellowA : "The people can't think properly anymore. How did that idiot Mnangagwa get elected?" FellowB may think that Mnangagwa is brilliant and therefore conclude that the people "think quite nicely, thank you very much" FellowC may agree with the rhetorical question, and therefore the conclusion as well. In order to avoid bloodshed, FellowB will probably choose to not respond. So sometimes it is in the best interest of brotherhood to not respond. Especially if the conversation is marked with conflict. BUT - based on your statement, it sounds more like the person may be asking a LEADING question. Another technique that is quite common - everyone does it. Again, in simple: a leading question is a question where the speaker intends the listener to infer an answer that supports the speakers point of view. Nothing wrong with that, we all do it. But in a conflict discussion, you may sense that if you acknowledge a point infered by the leading question, you may be logically forced to agree to a conclusion. And you might, unless you know that the leading question does not necessarily lead to the false conclusion and can articulate that logic. Refusing to answer in a discussion with friends will often appear like avoiding the subject. But it is often helpful to simply say something like "I think I see where you are going with that question and I am not in agreement with the conclusion. Please let me think it over and get back with you." If the conversation is heated no-one is going to change their mind anyway. Just like here on the forum. All this is outside a court of law (in your favorite country). Inside a court of law, people's lives are daily destroyed by use of communication devices to sway the jury (easily swayed) or the justice (easily swayed). Hence the beauty of God's law, but no-one want to apply that to anything anymore.

Hello Melinda12. The Old Testament is hard. Pursuing understanding is the best thing to do, so I applaud you for posting your honest question. Have the answers provided so far helped with your understanding?

Good topic - There are so many wonderful passages that cause me to think beyond my preconceived concepts. Here is one. Ecclesiastes 8:17 Then I saw all that God has done. No one can comprehend what goes on under the sun. Despite all their efforts to search it out, no one can discover its meaning. Even if the wise claim they know, they cannot really comprehend it.

a short verse found on the web: Forgiveness Weaponized They surround me. Full of fury. Full of joy. Voices raised in unison “Justice! Justice!” Joined together by a bond of forgiveness.

hard weather to live outside. I think about the man in the OP and the many others like him. I think about going out bring them something, anything to help. But I know I won't. I'll stay here in the relative comfort, such as it is, typing away at my computor, reading about hatred and feeling like I am important. God have mercy.

Beautifully said, brother (assuming brother because of your screen name). It is difficult for people to understand each other's failings. Our temptation is to judge from a view securely within our area of strength. Our opportunity is to recognize our individual areas of consistent failure and use those for true self-enlightenment. Then we can understand each other and have mercy. You will make it brother . One day at time. Remember the words of Jesus, the one who loves you: Don't worry about tomorrow.

Who ever you are: I was not going to post more. But since you may be in the middle of the issue with a daughter being confronted with the issues, I'll give you my take on it. For what it is worth: just the opinion of one among the billions of opinions. A wisp of smoke on a windy day. I have been around the drug issue for many years. I have had friends addicted for years and have been friends with drug dealers. And I am talking about the "legal" side of the issue. I have known doctor friends that agonize over whether they should keep writing those prescriptions, especially after years of periodic deaths from overdoses. And I have known the same roles on the "illegal" side. I have sat most of the night with people as they deal with the agony, fear and apathy as they finally make the decision to give it one last try to break away. Just listened as they discuss ways to kill themselves, even offering advice on ways that won't work. But then reminding them that, yes, the path to life is horribly difficult, but there is hope of love. I can't speak bombastically as I barely cling to that hope myself. Listened as they recount their history of starting in on drugs very young and living a life in and out of incarceration. Been by their side for years as they cycle through times of strength and failure. Been their when the failure has destroyed their ability to talk (literally) through brain damage. Wondered how they died when they finally just disappear one day. Stood at the side of their graves, lamenting their pain and hoping that they made to heaven. I believe that the modern response fails completely and even have a reverse effect. Why people do drugs is the issue. Starting in the early teen years, people become very aware of the futility of life. Many "teens" comment constantly that they are bored. Suicide is a huge risk, in all age ranges, but especially in the modern young. Life is exceedingly difficult. Anyone saying otherwise may find some believers for a while, but eventually the believers know different. Your daughter's experience with people saying that "drugs are awesome" is common. The real problem is it is true, at one level. All the drugs that people choose to use provide good experiences. Some of the experiences are reported to be tremendously enjoyable. When young people hear one side of the story from the "authorities", then hear the other side from the people with real experience, they are faced with a delimma. They know both sides are telling the truth, so they realize that, probably, the stories of bad things are scare tactics being used by the authorities. And they are correct. The authorities are using scare tactics, because the authorities can't address the real issue: meaning of/in life. All the terrible experiences I described above are the results of using drugs, legal or illegal. Why would people use them when they can see the effects on others? The reason people use them is to escape from the results of living this life. Drugs offer a almost guaranteed way to escape for a while. There are many other ways to escape for a while, movies, sports, sex, food, music, social media, talking to friends, etc. All escape methods have bad consequences if used the wrong way or too much. The so-called "gateway" drugs don't offer much of an escape and don't have much of a negative consequence. Things like marijuana. Just makes the person feel mildly more relaxed and happy, like drinking a glass of wine or a couple beers. But after a while, everyone wants a stronger effect. They want to feel great for a little while, we all do. If they have already accepted substances such as marijuana or alcohol to provide some life-escape and experienced minimal to zero negative effects, they have realized that the "authorities" have attempted to decieve them by only providing exteme examples. So they are eager to try other things that provide more intense experiences, greater escapes. And most will not fall completely apart. There are many drug users who lead lives that others in their respective societies would classify as normal. In fact, it is the majority. So how does this help when talking with your daughter? Make her aware of the real issues, that life has giant issues that drug abuse is only a symptom of. Young people are experiencing the same problems older people are; they are tempted with the same sins and experience the same shame and guilt. Drugs offer a short, but effective escape. Forgiveness offers the real escape. Knowing God offers the hope of a reality that is beyond the sin, shame, escape cycle. My advice is to be real. Let your daughter see the real you with your sins and struggles. She does anyway. Then let her see the real you really believing that God has forgiven you and loves you. Let her see you struggle with that. Then when she faces her own inevitable struggles, she will have hope that there is a way to go. She saw her mom in action.

There is an old saying: do what you've always done. You'll get what you've always got. What is the modern (~100 years) approach to stemming the overwhelming destruction of drug addiction? Law and punishment. Has it worked? ----------- Yes, it is very hard to be a parent. It can feel like taking one of the most important tests of your life and no way to get the answer right. Love covers a multitude of sins.

Hello @ReneeIW , the topic you bring up here is very important on many levels. But highly controversial. If I am correct in my recollection, you are very interested in issues having to do with the rule of law. And you have gone through very difficult things yourself. This topic presents issues that could be offensive to you and others who identify with the young girl in the story. And the issues could be offensive to others who may identify with the public figure in the story. Is the story hypothetical, or is it a real story? There are principles presented in scripture that pertain to various levels of the situation, but the overriding principle is love. Acting in Love, one must tread carefully, especially if it is a real story. Care must be taken because there are several lives about to be destroyed in this story, if it is real. Love calls to me to care about all of them. So I will not present my thoughts, I would risk hurting those involved.

Sister: I know you are not condemning me. My comment was directed to the whole world. It was not about you. If I have one wish for you: feel loved. Now.

Drug Addiction is very common in the modern world. All around the world. Some have the approval of their respective government (prescription) and some do not. I was walking again a few days ago. I went to a market. I bought a food item I don't usually buy, as a treat because I deserve it. Actually I don't but it helps to think such things when making a decision to spend more. Walking away from the market, I was approached by a man, probably in his mid thirties. In this part of the world, one is always being approached, especially if you at all acknowldge that other people exist. You know, by doing something like making eye contact. He asked for money, saying he was hungry. He was rather thin. I do carry some coins just for such things. But I've been around the block more than once. I avoid his question and ask him a few friendly questions. I observe for a moment, then ask him why he is doing drugs. To someone who has been around the block, you can see the little signs. He says he doesn't do drugs, but could I give him some money please. I tell him that drugs are devils that will not let go. His eyes go down. I pull out my special treat and give it to him. He glances at it distractedly and asks for money again. Confirming that he is not hungry. Confirming that he desparately needs money because the last dose is wearing off and he feels the sheer torment of being alive and especially being alive under the after affects of any reality altering drug. My heart breaks for him. But I can't ease his pain by giving him more money to refresh his dose. I ask if I can pray for him. He says yes (everyone on the street agrees to be prayed for - where else is hope? (rhetorical question, I wonder if you have the same answer as me)). I put my hand on his shoulder. Actually, I had put it there a while ago because it communicates to people that you care and are not afraid to be with them. I just pray that Jesus would touch him and help him. He thanks me. And asks me for money again. I laugh and say no, again. We go separate ways. A short distance later I am almost run down by a couple of trucks racing with sirens on and rifles at the ready. Probably on their way to catch some drug users - that is the most common activity for them. Fortunately, they were going the other way from my new friend. I hope he eats my treat and gains enough nutrition to live for a while more. I hope Jesus delivers him.

If God does not condemn me, any who do condemn me are usurping his position. I'll stick with my merciful God, who does not condemn me.

I wrote a long piece about understanding rhetoric in general, and rhetorical questions in specific. But then I deleted it. Here is my summary: Rhetorical questions are subset of questions. I think by your statement "I am not seeing a question there", you mean that you are not seeing an unanwered question there. And I agree Paul answered that question completely. Rhetorical questions require an answer from the listener in order to form an agreement with the speaker - otherwise the point of the emphasis is lost and the rhetorical question is meaningless. I understand the point that some mode in this topic: if this passage of scripture is a test and you are only looking for unanswered questions, there are none. Just like the whole of scripture. But like the whole of scripture, if the answer a person arrives at in their belief is not in alignment with the meaning intended that person will have cascading belief problems.

1st Century Roman Law has direct applicability to understanding and applying parts of the New Testament. Thank you for your help.

@maryjayne I am going offline now. I am just saying this so that you don't think I am ignoring you as happened in the last time we miscommunicated. You are very bright and civil. I would not ignore you

I understand. I am observing that you cannot have an answer to my question as you do not perceive a question in the verses quoted. I understand your situation. I am not offended if you choose to not answer the question I posed as you do not see a question in the verses.

Sorry, I thought a question mark indicated a question. I take it, then, that you do not have an answer since there was no question.

Either one.

I would tell myself: follow all the discrepancies in scripture, you'll get to a place of accepting that you are not good enough, ever. And just trust that Jesus is.

very true. Jesus is inescapable.