Gentle-Warrior

I serve the eternal Christ now, not in the nebulous future. Jesus is the great I AM (Ex. 3:14, Jn 8:58) 1)The Law of proper Hermeneutics states that we cannot use OT scriptures without full support of the new (NT) since the Bible is one book, not two. The NT explains and fulfills the OT, while the OT serves as a foundation for the NT. 2) The Bible centers in on the redemption of mankind which the Lord promised from the beginning of time (Gen. 3:15) and fully accomplished it at the cross through Jesus Christ. 3) Israel was the means God used in order to accomplish His eternal goal: Forgiveness of sins, righteousness, eternal life, all in Christ Jesus as we become the living temples of the Lord (1Cor. 3:16, 6:19). Israel's role ended when Christ came and fulfilled all of God's promises to them when He redeemed them at the cross. The Jews that received Christ received their inheritance while the ones who didn't, died in their sins. 4) The old covenant law ended with the final destruction of the temple in A.D. 70 (no more sacrifices for sins, no more priesthood, no more law, not more OT prophets because all these things were fulfilled in Christ. See the book of Hebrews), while the new covenant began with the shed blood of the Lamb of God at the last supper (Mat. 26:28, Mark 14:24, Lk 22:20). This new covenant is the everlasting covenant that will never end (Heb. 13:20). 5) Lastly, it is an error to justify our beliefs by merely quoting out of context OT scriptures to prove our beliefs without looking at the whole picture of God's eternal covenant in Jesus Christ.

No, but you are responsible for quoting him. Don't cop out.

None of those scriptures that you quoted point to a restoration of a future Israel. I challenge you to post them all so that you can prove your assertions. I will quote two examples that you gave, Acts 3:20–21 (NASB95) "And that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time." Nowhere do I read in these two verses about the restoration of Israel, not present and not future. What Peter was speaking about was the restoration of humanity to the intent that God had given mankind from the beginning of time. Luke 1:31–32 (NASB95) 31 “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32 “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David." So, where does it say in this passage anything a future Israel? Don't you know that the throne of glory is in the Spirit, that is is in heaven, or do you really think that Jesus deserves less than that? Isn't Jesus God Almighty, or do you think that somehow He remained a man only? Now, go ahead and prove your presuppositions. God ahead, I invite you to embarrass me.

People that are afraid to learn the truth of God's word are more interested in their pet doctrines rather than glorifying the Lord of glory.

I suggest that you take my post and prove me wrong point by point. However, if you think we must go back to the law in the future, including going back to old covenant feasts (which by the way, the old covenant was done away at the cross, and officially closed with the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70), you must agree then that Christ's death on the cross was needless. Galatians 2:21 (NASB95) 21“I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

The so called “Millennium” is a manufactured belief that holds no water in the scriptures. We cannot take assumptions and run with it as if It was the truth. Neither Jesus nor any of the writers of the NT ever even hinted such thing. The fact is that Jesus is God, and God reigns in heaven forever outside of time and space, should be enough for us to understand that God does not dwell among sinful people because He is holy. Besides that Jesus clearly said that His Kingdom is not of an earthly kind (Jn 18:36). God does not dwell on earth because the heavens and the heavens of heavens cannot contain Him (1Ki. 8:27). “Heaven is My throne and the earth is the footstool of My feet.” (Isa 66:1, Acts 7:48-51). Si, to attempt to bring Jesus, who is God Almighty, to earth, is to attempt to bring God to our level and make Him into a god made into our own image and likeness. By the way, we have also read into the text of Rev. 20 and assumed what it doesn’t say. Most Christians have never really read, much less understood the book of Revelation, yet they know how to read men's opinions about it and thus open themselves to deception. I affirm that the “Millennial kingdom” was invented by men who did not understand the basic divine principles of the Holy Scriptures.

The KJV is only an English translation. If you'd look it up in the Greek, the noun means stewardship or administration. Besides that "dispensations" are nothing but nouns and nouns do not dictate doctrines. 3622. οἰκονομία oikonomía; gen. oikonomías, fem. noun from oikonoméō (3621), to be a manager of a household. The position, work, responsibility or arrangement of an administration, as of a house or of property, either one’s own or another’s (Luke 16:2; Sept.: Is. 22:19); a spiritual dispensation, management, or economy (1 Cor. 9:17; Eph. 1:10; 3:2; Col. 1:25). The “dispensation of God” means the administration of divine grace. Act., the administrative activity of the owner or of the steward; pass., that which is administered, the administration or dispensation of the fullness of times (Eph. 1:10). The object of oikonomía, dispensation, is the relative phrase hḗn proétheto of Eph. 1:9, translated “which he hath purposed.” It is the divine purpose which is said to be administered. The meaning is the administration of God’s saving purpose pertaining to the fullness of the times. Therefore, oikonomía here is to be taken as pass. See Eph. 3:2, 9 (UBS); 1 Tim. 1:4 (TR). Zodhiates, Spiros. The complete word study dictionary: New Testament 2000 : n. pag. Print. Dispensations are man made, not God inspired.

Sorry to disagree with you, but there is no such thing as a dispensation of grace. We now live in the new covenant that will never end. Dispensationalism is an unblibical doctrine that is not taught in the scriptures. Matthew 26:27–28 (NASB95) "And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." Luke 22:20 (NIV) 20 "In the same way, after the supper He took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you." 1 Corinthians 11:25 (NIV) 25 "In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

1 Thes. 4:17 does not speak about the end of history, if that is what you are thinking about. We cannot have the end of history without first understanding that the old covenant had to officially end by the accompanying destruction of the Jewish temple which would "officially" usher the new and everlasting covenant that would never end. So, for Paul to speak about being "caught up in the clouds", was simply a form or speech or a Hebrew metaphor that spoke of the coming judgment of the harlot "Israel." It is then imperative to go back to the Lord Jesus and understand that He spoke quite often about the judgment of Israel. In Mat. 23:34-39, Jesus spoke about the judgment of Jerusalem while in verse 36, He indicated that the judgment would take place in their own generation. In chapter 24, He begins to describe the end of the covenant by pointing to the temple where no stone would remain on top of one another (24:1-14). The end which He referred was the end of Israel as a covenant nation (v:14). Also, the Lord added in verse 34 that all that He has been speaking about would take place in their own generation (v:34). Paul picked up on this revelation when he added that the sufferings of the Thessalonians were coming to an end with the judgment of the harlot nation. 1 Thessalonians 2:14–16 (NIV) "For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last." A few years later, the Romans set up a siege against Jerusalem while 1.5 million Jews died in the hands of each other as the Roman army advanced to finish the task. The book of Revelation is the story of such events beginning in chapter 6 as it repeats the same story from different angles. Of course, most Christians have already believed a futuristic Hollywood style that reflects our lack of understanding of God's word. Their take makes no sense because it cannot be proven if we take things into the correct context. So, only those who have eyes to see will begin to understand that no book of the bible was written to us. We are not the direct recipients of God's word, but we can apply it to our lives as long as we take God's word within the context it was intended. Going back to 1Thes. 4:17, the idea of being "caught up" with the Lord in the air, pointed to the inclusion of the Thessalonian church in taking part of the judgment of the harlot Israel. After all, they had been victims of the abuse of the Jews alongside with their Jewish brethren in the Lord. If you want to question verse 16, the dead in Christ were those who had been slain for the sake of the gospel. They came with the Lord (invisibly) to see the end of the criminal generation of murderers. Paul died in A.D. 64, so he too was present in the spirit to rejoice over God's holy justice. After the destruction of the temple and the Jewish mob gone for good, the new covenant assured them to always be with the Lord, just as we too are (Ro. 8:35-39). This might be difficult to swallow, especially when we have already made up our minds what certain scriptures mean. We need to be alert to be open to the teachings of the Lord, not the teachings of men, e.g. the Millennium, the great tribulation, etc. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+destruction+of+jerusalem+in+ad+70&qpvt=the+destruction+of+jerusalem+in+ad+70&FORM=VDRE

I asked you a question as to what the rapture meant, not to provide scripture. Can you do that?

Why do you assume that Revelation was written for a star trek generation? Do you have chapter and verse to prove this silly assumption? Bless you brother. You are one of the few that understand what real tribulations are all about. As an extra, the tribulation that Jesus was talking about in Mat. 24 was to take place in their own generation (Mat. 24:34). He was not referring to the end of history, but to the end of the old covenant with its accompanying destruction of the temple and all that the temple represented-- because a greater temple had come (Jn 2:19, 1Cor. 3:16, 6:19, Col. 1:27, etc.)

What is your understanding of the "rapture" and where does the word appear in the scriptures?

Sorry, I thought I was responding to Diaste.

I have read the book of Revelation hundreds of times, and will continue to read it everyday for the rest if my life. I also read daily the rest if the 65 books of the Bible (in sections) without failure because it we don't understand the first 65 books of the Bible, how in the world can we assume we will be able to understand Revelation? God is God of order, design, specificity, plan and purpose. I take the word of God very seriously, therefore when I explain scripture, I know what I’m talking about. What is dangerous is not knowing how to read a book according to its correct genre. One cannot read an apocalyptic book the same way one reads a novel. We must understand clues, idiomatic expressions, metaphors, symbolism, and cultural expressions that are unique to the Hebrew mindset. Most people have paid more attention yo what the “experts” have to say about Revelation than actually reading the book themselves. This is because some Christians believe “it's too difficult” to even bother reading it. By the way, I don't claim I know it all because I don't and no one does either, but at least I have begun to ask the Holy Spirit to teach me about the book He, Himself inspired John to write.

Diaste, I will respond to questions when you respond to mine.

Have you ever thought that the the book of Revelation may not have been written for the future? Of course we all know that this book was written 2,000 years ago, specifically it addressed the seven churches of Asia Minor, but have you personally learned that this book was actually written for an intergalactic future that has meant absolutely nothing for 20 centuries and continues to be irrelevant to our present time? I think most Christians have never given this a thought because verses 1:1, 3:11, 22:7, 10 and 12 indicate that all the events were to take place in a short time for them, not for us. Think about it before you give me a generic response. Blessings,

By "futuristic" I mean the the doctrine of the "Millennium", the so called "Great Tribulation", "future Israel" being saved, etc. Most of those teachings are but a few hundred years old. As for end time prophecies, Christ has fulfilled them all, although we have yet to see the final judgment of the wicked, the return of the Lord, the resurrection of the dead and the unveiling of a new world where sin is no more.

I still claim that most of Christians do not understand God's word as it was written within the culture, language and intent of the original writers. Most people take the word of God as if it was directly written to the 21st century English population. What I have learned is that the day of the Lord was in reference to God's judgment on Israel and the coming close of the old covenant between God and Israel. Peter was indicating in a very Hebrew way that the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem was around the corner. In Hebrew culture and Scripture, the phrase heaven and earth was a common idiom used to refer to a system of government and specifically to the system of the old covenant Law. In other words, the phrase "heavens and earth" is covenantal language. It is not referring to the physical heavens and earth. The Old Heavens and Earth was the Old Covenant and the New Heavens and Earth was to be the New Covenant where righteousness dwells. Christians are the New Creation and the New Heavens and Earth. Once again, the concept is spiritual/covenantal, not physical/literal. I can explain the rest, but most people reject anything that doesn't fit their pre-programmed teachings.

If you want to label me, I would say partial, but even then I have some problems with preterism. I prefer to read the word of God on my own. I exegete God's word, while asking the Holy Spirit to open my eyes, as I put Christ at the center of all the scriptures (as it should be). One thing though, I hate Replacement Theology, but not as much the futuristic one. It is so unreal and so out of bounds with God's word. Too many assumptions and much ignorance (no pun intended) Many have fallen for the trap of modern Israel. It is a deception and a log on many peoples' eyes. God bless,

What about Revelation 21 and why do you bring Zech 14 up? Do you have NT support that upholds Zech. 14? Second, do you have any proof that the book of Revelation was written for a star trek generation of 2,000 years plus later? Imagine God lying to the first century church by inspiring a book that was completely irrelevant to them as well as for the past 2,000 years? That sounds odd to me.

Just let me say that Jesus is too big to have a kingdom on earth. He is God Almighty who dwells in heaven as both Lord and God. God, in His wholly triune self will always reign in heaven, Isaiah 66:1 (NASB95) 1 "Thus says the Lord, “Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?" 1 Kings 8:27 (NASB95) 27 “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!" John 18:36 (NASB95) 36 “ Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” Exodus 33:20 (NASB95) 20 "But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!” 1 Timothy 6:16 (NASB95) "Who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen." Something to meditate on...

The day of the Lord does not necessarily mean the end of time. The modern, western church has failed to understand the language of the first century writers and the context of proper covenant thinking. The modern church has gone on to assume things that were not part of such language. We have built a whole doctrine based on presuppositions. Having said that, the biggest event in those day was the fact that the old covenant was coming to an end. Paul was not talking about anything else but that.

If you cannot respond to simple statements, you are not fit to have a discussion. I refuse to talk to the wall. You are totally wasting your time writing so much because I don't read it, so unless you touch on what I said before and respond to what I said, this discussion is over.

Your response has nothing to do with the topic at hand because I don’t read in Rev. 20 where it say that Jesus will come down to earth to reign for 1,000 literal years.

Stop ignoring what I'm saying and respond to my posts. I'm not going to waste my time explaining things that you are ignoring completely. DON'T BE SO RUDE!