Gentle-Warrior

Read it again and tell me where does it say that Jesus will come down to earth to rule for 1,000 literal years, and who told you that the ONE THOUSAND YEARS (not 1,000 years) were literal? How did you figure that since the chapter begins with symbols? And who told you that Revelation was written for the future? Do you have chapter and verse in Revelation where John states that? By the way, did you read the preceding chapters where the whore of Jerusalem was destroyed completely? (Chap 17-18). Did you forget that that the Romans already did that in AD 70 and God's word was fulfilled exactly as Jesus said it would? (Mat. 23:34-39, 1Thes. 2:14-16). Are you still dreaming that a secular nation with no God, no Christ and no faith in the Lord will one day be redeemed again as if the cross was not effective enough to do it 2,000 years ago? So, what happened to Eph. 2:8 where it says that we are saved by grace through faith? Is there an exception for ungodly Jews that hate the very mention of the name of Jesus? Lastly, what kind of biblical support to you have for Rev. 20? Did Jesus promise a Millennial kingdom? Did any the apostles tell us that it would be so? Who said it and why would Jesus deny His own word when He said that His kingdom was not of this world (Jn 18:36)? Your presuppositions have too many holes to fill to give it a second look.

Where does it say that God the Son who rules in heaven over all creation (Mat. 28:18, Eph. 1:20-22) will step down from heaven to rule over what He already rules? Jesus is omnipresent and all powerful because He is God. 1 Kings 8:27 (NASB95) 27 “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!" Will God the Son rule on earth when He, Himself said that His kingdom is not of this world? (Jn 18:36). Why then are you trying to bring God to your human level instead of seating in heavenly places as His words states we are? (Eph. 2:6). Did you already forget who Jesus really is? Where is your scripture anyway where it says that Jesus will step down from heaven to rule on earth? Read Rev. 20 a few times and tell me where it says that?

Are you comparing God's covenant Israel of 2,000 years ago that had a temple, a law, a priesthood, prophetic oracles, blood sacrifices, etc.,with a promised a Messiah with a modern, POLITICAL and SECULAR nation that wants nothing to with God and whom God has not said a word for 71 years? Don't you know that God's last word to the world is the cross of Jesus Christ? (Heb. 1:2).

You response falls short because you did not explain HOW we are to LOVE the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds, souls and strength. The answer lies in what God has done for us first, 1 John 4:10 (NASB95) 10 "In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins." By the way, we don't love the Lord our God through our flesh, but through our spirits that are united to the Spirit of Christ. God is a Spirit and those who worship (love) Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (Jn 4:24).

Amos as well as any other book that belongs to the old covenant, cannot be taken at face value without full support of the new covenant in Christ. So, to ignore the NT for a scripture of the OT is to ignore the unity of the scriptures that come together in Christ. The NT explains and fulfills the old while the old serves as a foundation for the new; however, we cannot take isolated scriptures from the old testament and make a a doctrine out of it without having full support from the new. Based on what I have said, allow me to explain how that scripture fits perfectly with the NT. Amos 9:13–14 (NASB95) 13“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “When the plowman will overtake the reaper And the treader of grapes him who sows seed; When the mountains will drip sweet wine And all the hills will be dissolved. 14“Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit." This passage clearly points to the redemption of Israel that Jesus accomplished at the cross. According to Acts 28:20, Jesus was the hope of Israel and the promise of the Father to them. If you cannot see Christ in all things, perhaps you need to read Luke 24:25-27, 44-45 and John 5:39-40 because Jesus was what Israel was looking for while all the promises of the scriptures of the OT pointed directly or indirectly to Him. One example, Luke 1:67–72 (NASB95) 67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: 68 “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people, 69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of David His servant— 70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from of old— 71 Salvation from our enemies, and from the hand of all who hate us; 72 To show mercy toward our fathers, and to remember His holy covenant." It's all about Jesus!

I don't read any scriptures in the NT any promise about t There is no need for the land because Christ has come, Christ has died, Christ has risen. Christ has ascended to the throne in heaven, and finally, He has given the Spirit of God to anyone who believes in Him. God's throne is in heaven and will always be a spiritual kingdom. The promise of God was the Spirit (Lk 24:49, Acts 2:33, 39, 7:17, 13:32, 26:6, Rom 4:13, 16, etc., etc.) Primarily the Messiah was for the Jews. We came after the Jews because God's salvation was cosmic. The purpose of Israel was to give birth to Messiah, embrace Him and then go into all the world to preach the gospel. Since national Israel rejected Him, God judged them and did away with old covenant Israel which included the law, the land, the priesthood, the sacrifices, etc. Christ fulfilled them all in Himself because the end plan in sight was to become a new creation which began the moment people believed in the Lord Jesus (2Cor. 5:17). The preparation for eternity began when Christ fulfilled the work of redemption for all time. We are the result of God gathering His people for eternity. Jesus is our promise for new heavens and a new earth where righteousness dwells, so if we think a little, what need is to continue to drag the same old thing when God fulfilled His promise to them in Christ? It is not God's fault that the nation said a final no to Him. No second chances because God does not show partiality with anyone (Acts 10:34). Jesus Christ is King David reigning in the heavens. This kingdom is spiritual while anyone has access to it through faith in Christ (Eph. 1:20-23, Rev. 3:7).

The Israel of the OT was in covenant with God. Modern and secular Israel has zero connection with God and is set against God's eternal purposes through Christ just like the rest of the nations. After old Israel they killed their own Messiah, they went on to persecute Jews in Christ, God judged them, burned the city down and closed the door to the old covenant forever (1Thes. 2:14-16, Heb 8:8-10) What we have today is a political nation that was born by the help of the UN, but has nothing to do with the eternal purposes of God because God's people always been those who have His Spirit, not those don't. However, the doors of salvation are still open to them as Jews come to the Lord be delivered from sin and death. Thirty thousands Jews live in Israel that are now part of His church. One eternal principle that God has established in His word is that without faith is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6). As for the prophets of old, they pointed to the new covenant where the temple would no longer have central stage in their lives. They looked forward for the complete removal of sin and for life eternal. The promise that God gave them was Jesus Messiah (Christ). He gave them a PERSON that would change their lives forever, not promises that would keep them in their sin. Luke 24:25-27, 44-45, Jn 5:39-40, are some of the scriptures that pointed to Jesus. Luke 2:32 tells us that Jesus was the glory of Israel while Paul said in Acts 28:20 that Jesus was the hope of Israel. However, if you take Jesus out of the picture, all you have left is a shell without the goods. Colossians 1:27 (NASB95) "To whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."

Nope. No one is replacing anyone. Judaism was left behind for a new creation in Christ. Nothing to do with your narrow minded understanding where you feel the need to place believers in a box. The church emerged from Israel who was nothing but a crumbling nation that was set against God's eternal purposes. The remnant came out of Israel to form the new covenant people of God. If you look at the old covenant believers and join them to the new covenant congregation in Christ, you wind up having one people of faith. God is one. Ephesians 4:4–6 (NASB95) 4 "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." God is ONE and the ONE God has always had ONE PEOPLE OF FAITH. Like it or not.

Nope. You forgot "Exegesis" and "Inductive Bible Study" according to the what the word of God teaches, not what man has decided what the word of God says. Replacement Theology teaches that the church has replaced Israel. I have learned that Israel emerged out of Judaism in order to become part of the kingdom of God on earth until the second coming. The gospel is the entrance to the kingdom of God while we are made into a new creation (2Cor. 5:17). The church was Jewish from the get-go and for the first 10 years, the body of Christ was only Jewish. After that, they learned that the redemption that Jesus had provided at the cross was far bigger than they had ever imagined. Israel as a nation rejected God's salvation through Jesus Christ and were finally judged in AD 70, never to rise its ugly head again. God's new Israel is a people of faith IN CHRIST. He who does not have the Spirit of Christ, does not belong to Him (Ro. 8:9). I just gave you a small synopsis of the pure word of God unstained by the additional teachings of men. God saves us by grace not by race.

By the early church, I meant the first century writers that gave us the NT. Find it in the NT where it says that God who already reigns in the spirit over all His creation (God is a spirit, Jn 4:24 and Jesus is God) has a need to reign physically on earth? Isn't He omnipresent and limitless in power? Doesn't Jesus reign over all things from heaven? (Eph. 1:20-23), so please explain why a holy God who cannot live among flesh (for He will destroy the earth instantly) will come to reign over a sinful land? We have a clear picture in the scriptures of what would happen to people if God came down to earth: Exodus 19:20–22 (NASB95) 20 The Lord came down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain; and the Lord called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. 21 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, “Go down, warn the people, so that they do not break through to the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish. 22“Also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, or else the Lord will break out against them.” Exodus 20:18–19 (NASB95) 18 "All the people perceived the thunder and the lightning flashes and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance. 19 Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.” So, can we play with the holiness of God and assume what's not in the scriptures? 1 Kings 8:27 (NASB95) 27 “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!"

Of course! I agree with you 100%, but that does not take away the fact that the scriptures must be understood according to its own genre, not according to our whims. The Bible is full of metaphors, similes, poetry, allusions, etc., besides the fact that the culture, language and mindset of those days were different from our own self centered western mentality where we assume we are the center of all things. Rev. 20 does not say that Jesus will return to earth to rule for 1,000 literal years. Read it again and again until you get it.

I'm not sure if you understand but the church fathers did not write scriptures, nor were they infallible. If they believe in a sort of Millennial kingdom, all we have is fragments that cannot dictate doctrine for us, but if they did believe in a Millennial kingdom, then they didn't understand the completion of God's redemption in Jesus Christ. Besides that, I don't read any Millennial kingdom in the scriptures, especially in rev. 20 where dispensationalists have mangled these scriptures to impose a belief that the scriptures do not teach. I wonder if you understand the biblical implication of this belief if it were true? Have we forgotten that God does not dwell physically among men because His perfect and limitless holiness forbids it? Besides that, God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) have always reigned over His creation from heaven, so I don't understand why we believe this atrocity. Psalm 22:28 (NASB95) 28 "For the kingdom is the Lord’s and He rules over the nations." Psalm 47:2 (NASB95) 2 "For the Lord Most High is to be feared, a great King over all the earth." Psalm 59:13 (NASB95) 13 "Destroy them in wrath, destroy them that they may be no more; that men may know that God rules in Jacob to the ends of the earth. Selah." Ephesians 1:20–22 (NKJV) "Which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church." Luke 22:69 (NASB95) 69 “But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.” God bless,

Your assumption is wrong. All I do is look at what the word of God says in light of what Jesus accomplished at the cross. If you don't recognize that, something is wrong, and I assure you is not me because I don't carry extra baggage like most Christians do today with the end times fables that they have picked up from false teachers. The scriptures are not about what the majority believes but about the truth that stems from Jesus Christ alone.

Revelation 20 is highly symbolic in nature and cannot be used as a doctrine unless there is previous support in the scriptures. Please provide NT Biblical evidence that supports your position of Rev. 20.

I don't believe in Replacement Theology, never did and never will. The fact that you want to label me is a clear indication that you are unwilling to debate me in a decent and orderly manner. However, using slander to accuse me of being anti-semitic is lame at best and ridiculous at best. The only one who is spewing hate is you. By the way, I understand much more than you can ever imagine. If you want to give it a try, I am well able to discuss your disagreements with my beliefs which are centered on Christ and Christ alone.

So, what's your point?

The Millennium is a fairly new doctrine that was never taught by the original church. Jesus, Lord of heaven and earth does not need to come down earth while He reigns in heaven over the earth. The belief of a Millennial kingdom reveals a lack of understanding of what Jesus accomplished in His perfect and complete redemption.

I'm lost here. What were we talking about?

For all practical intents and purposes, how can we love the Lord our God whom we have no seen? So, without going into works of charity or loving one another, how to you think we can love the Lord our God with all our hearts, souls and minds?

Israelites who were remotely familiar with the law were probably well aware of the fact that "heaven and earth" was synonymous with the law or the Old Covenant. The phrase "heavens and earth" is then covenantal language. It is not referring to the physical heavens and earth. The Old Heavens and Earth was the Old Covenant and the New Heavens and Earth is the New Covenant where righteousness dwells. Christians are the New Creation and the New Heavens and Earth. Once again, the concept is spiritual/covenantal, not physical/literal.

What you posted has nothing to with what I posted. John 18:36 clearly states that the Lord's kingdom is not of an earthly kind. This means He rules from heaven, or from eternity. I also gave you Eph 1:20-23 that proves my point. Are you going to disregard both of my points in order to insert yours?

1) Didn't Jesus say that His kingdom was not of this world? (realm or kind) in Jn 18:36. Did He change His mind? 2) Ephesians 1:20–23 (NASB95) "Which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all." How then do you reconcile the fact that Jesus rules in the heavens over all creation, which is the realm of eternity where time is not a factor?

He doesn't come. The whole thing is nothing but man's imagination gone bananas. The antichrist is the epistles of John was not a person but deceitful teaching called Gnosticism. "Gnosticism is a philosophical worldview that stresses special knowledge. The word comes from the Greek gnosis meaning knowledge. Gnosticism was prevalent in the first century during and after the time of Christ. It maintains that matter is evil and spirit is good. Because matter is bad human souls, in a sense, are trapped in a material world. Gnostics maintained that they had special knowledge about God which enabled them to understand the human condition as it relates to the world. This helped them to deny the world, by asserting that the good human spirit need not be restricted by the evil material world. Early Gnostics taught that God was so perfect that he could not have anything to do with the physical world -- including its creation. Therefore, God made a demiurge, a lesser God through which the world was created. Gnostics considered themselves superior to early Christians and believed that this lesser God was the God of the Old Testament." https://carm.org/questions/about-philosophy/what-gnosticism 1 John 2:22 (NASB95) 22 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son." That, my friend John called the antichrist in John's epistles.

I'm done here. Opinions don't help your lost cause.

How convenient. God reigns in heaven and Jesus is God. Shall I add more to that?