Desopixi Seilynam

My claim that sex is a union? The two join in physical union, yes? You did not deny that, for it is obvious that the sex itself is a physical union. So your arguing that it is not a spiritual union? Ok fine. But it certainly is a physical union, and that is enough to back up my point concerning the union, it must be made public such that others are not mistaken. We should be able to agree that those in sincere love should have no problem going through with marriage. Two virgins who have had sex, should get married, they should not feel guilty, they should simply get married. Advising them to separate because of the 'pre-marital' sex is transgression, for the law states that they are to marry. I'm not here to keep going back and forth, I find no pleasure in arguing.

You already know what sex is, literally there is a union, a joining of the flesh. And literally a child, one new flesh from the two, is produced. Ok then, so they are supposed to wait a lifetime before having sex? No I am not married, and it has been seven years since I had sex, I have been set free from fornication by the Holy Spirit. I do not even masturbate. ""If they marry then he is not taking anything. He is taking that which is not his when he does so prior to marriage. "" Virginity is a physical state, there is bleeding and other physical things that happen to a female when first having sex. And the fact that she did not have sex before is also lost once she losses her virginity, that is taken from her. The law states that once that happens the man is supposed to marry that girl. Clearly the law allows for enticement of a maid that is not betrothed. If you entice a maid and lie with her, you shall surely endow her to be your wife. Exodus 22:16

That's exactly right, a virgin is supposed to forever stay with the man that took her virginity. She is his and he is hers, her body belongs to him and his body belongs to her and no one else. Yes indeed.

? Sex is the union. All they did is have sex? ? Sex is the union, literally and spiritually. Let me state it in another way, the sex itself is the marriage, as far as God is concerned, therefore the two are not to part and there should be a public marriage as well.

They must marry to signify their union, their sexual union must be made public such that other men and woman are not mistaken about them.

Please show me any scripture that states that having sex 'out of wedlock' is a sin. Fornication as defined by scripture is found in Leviticus 18. And Exodus 22:16 deals with sex before marriage, denoting that it is lawful so long as commitment also happens. And what did I say dear one? ""Sex without any intention of being forever committed to the person is a sin. Therefore if the true intention is to be forever committed, then there is no reason to not go through with a marriage ceremony."" The ceremony is an act of commitment, but it does not produce commitment, it is just a ceremony. Commitment is commitment and it is produced by sincere love for one another, which stems from the heart not from a ceremony. Those staying together forever demonstrate and prove their love and commitment, whether they had a ceremony or not.

Genesis 24:67 is not a report of sin. Exodus 22:16 is part of the Torah, part of the law, the rule that states: If you lie with a woman you shall surely endow her to be your wife. And sin is transgression against the law. 1 John 3:4 Therefore to have sex before the ceremony is not a transgression against the law, the law allows for sex before the ceremony: Exodus 22:16.

What are the words of our Lord Jesus Christ that are also the doctrine which is according to godliness? >> Matthew 5 through 7 and Luke 6:27-49. If anyone teaches otherwise and agrees not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness, he is proud knowing nothing. 1 Timothy 6:3-4 Whoever disobeys the Torah and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ, has not God, whoever abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you (preaching) and does not bring this doctrine, do not give him a greeting. 2 John 1:9-10 Therefore.. whoever hears these sayings of mine and does not put them into practice, is like a fool that built his house upon the sand... And they were astonished at His doctrine for He taught as one with authority. Matthew 7:21-28

If two fall in love, have sex with each other and then never have sex with anyone else for as long as they live, that is fornication simply because they have not gone through a ceremony? No it is not. The verses given clearly back up that notion. If you entice a maid that is not betrothed and lie with her, you shall surely endow her to be your wife. Exodus 22:16. There it is written down in scripture; sex before the ceremony, it's ok so long as marriage (which is not a ceremony, but rather a life long commitment to each other) happens.

I did. Genesis 24:67 and Exodus 22:16 The marriage ceremony teaches love? Or you mean living together as a married couple teaches love? You don't have to go through a ceremony to be committed, surely the ceremony is just a ceremony and commitment is commitment. Again: Genesis 24:67 Isaac took Rebekka into his mothers tent and took her, before they went through the ceremony. Exodus 22:16 specifically says that if you lie with a women you shall surely endow her to be your wife. A clear passage regarding sex before the ceremony. Grace grace grace, but when it comes to marriage be sure to be legalistic?

But if the unbeliever departs and marries another, then they have committed adultery. Therefore the believer who was departed from can at that point marry another. Therefore the believer must remain single so long as the unbeliever who departed is still single (and that is that they are not having relations with anyone, not the worlds definition of single) , and wait and hope that they return, but if they marry another (or have relations with another), adultery then applies and the believer would be free to remarry at that point. Sex without any intention of being forever committed to the person is a sin. Therefore if the true intention is to be forever committed, then there is no reason to not go through with a marriage ceremony. But to be in true love, and have relations before the marriage ceremony is not a sin, so long as there is eventually a marriage ceremony, or legal marriage, and the two stay committed together forever. God is concerned about the intention of the heart not about a legalistic ceremony. "Isaac brought Rebekah into his mother Sarah's tent (his dead mothers empty tent) and took her, and she became his wife" Genesis 24:67 "If you entice a maid and lie with her, you shall surely endow her to be your wife." Exodus 22:16

the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and free from death. they that are after the flesh do set their minds on the things of the flesh (food, money, pleasure, sex..) but they that are after the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit (sharing the gospel, love, heaven..) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. they that set their minds on the flesh can not please God. (Philippians 3:18-19) But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now, if any one does not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Christ. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him that raised Christ from the dead is in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also give life to your mortal bodies, by His Spirit that is in you. Therefore, brethren, we are not debtors to the flesh to live after the flesh. For if you live after the flesh you shall die, but if you through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the flesh you shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:2-14 And they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Galatians 5:24

Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain: but a woman that fears the Lord, she shall be praised. Give her the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

There were false prophets among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who secretly shall bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their destructive ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be blasphemed. And through greed shall they with deceptive words make merchandise of you. 2 Peter 2:1-3

I know that the Jewish issue, some of the issues I've raised in this thread, are very sensitive. Therefore I don't want this issue to drag on, I encourage anyone interested to read and re-read what I've said, and to do their own research, and so this reply to George and Your closest friendnt will be the last of mine, in this thread, on the Jewish subject. Gods redemptive plan for the Jewish people is Christ. "If you belong to Christ, then are you Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29 "They that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts." Galatians 5:24 "Because of unbelief the natural branches were broken off." "If they abide not still in unbelief they shall be grafted in again." "Hardening in part has happened to them, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in." "The mystery which has been hid since ages past.. what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you [Gentiles] the hope of glory" Colossians 1:26-27 "And in this manner shall all Israel be saved, as it is written; There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer and shall turn to them that turn from transgression, for this is my covenant with them when I shall take away their sin." [Everyone's sin was taken away by the death and resurrection of Christ, people just need to believe it, there is no other sacrifice or taking away of sin] [Christ came to Zion and took away the sins of the world] [That is what Paul is referring to, and now, Christ is supposed to be inside of the Gentiles that believe, that is the fullness of the Gentiles] "For as ye in times past have not obeyed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience" [they had Christ killed, that is their disobedience, but because of the death and resurrection of Christ, we have been given mercy] "Even so have they also now not obeyed, [they had Christ killed] that through the mercy shown to you they also may obtain mercy." [that is a key point, they obtain mercy through the mercy shown to us] "For God has confined them to disobedience [the killing of Christ] that He might have mercy upon all." [via the death and resurrection of Christ] "I beseech you therefore brethren [Gentiles] that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable.. that you may prove [to the Jews] what is that good and perfect will of God" [the good and perfect will of God is that they believe on Christ] Romans 11:20 through 12:1 As people possessed by Christ, we are supposed to show so by our lifestyle, and by seeing our lifestyle others would be led to faith in Christ. ------- I have not made any accusations at all. What I stated are verifiable facts. There are many military checkpoints all over Israel, have been since 1967. Israel has become increasingly divided since then. So-called strangers are being turned aside from their right, it's a fact, the so called Jews, the Zionists, feel that they have a right to evict Palestinians from their homes and to take over those homes for themselves, it's been going on since 1967 and is a verifiable fact. B. Goldstien is held in high regard by the majority of so called Jews for what he did. These are facts that can be verified. And there are Jews that speak against Zionism, and will tell you that the problem is not Judaism or the Palestinians, but rather that the problem is ultra nationalist Zionism that started in 1967. jewishvoiceforpeace . org/zionism/ nkusa . org Blessed are all they who sigh and cry over the abominations that are done in Israel, surely they are marked by the pen given to me. Where did Jesus say anything like that? Jesus in Matthew 24 used Daniel and said that it applies to what will happen in the future [..at least from His time of saying it..] In Obadiah it says "The day of the Lord is near.." "Deliverers shall come up on mount Zion, to judge the mount of Esau and the kingdom shall be the Lords" Clearly that has not happened yet. The Lord is not physically reigning from mount Zion now. Now there is much fighting in and around Zion, Esau [ red haired people, as I've repeated in various threads ] stands at the crossroads just as Obadiah said. Therefore time and current events match perfectly with what Obadiah said, marking it clearly as a prophesy concerning our day. Isaiah 26:19 "Israels dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise" Isaiah 27:1-2 and the Lord slays two beasts on that day. Isaiah 26:19 through 27:1 matches Revelation 19:14-21 perfectly. The marriage of the Lamb happens, which includes resurrections, then two beasts are slain. Also Deuteronomy 13:1-3 is the first prophesy concerning the false prophet. It matches perfectly Revelation chapter.. 13:11-18. The law of Moses was not abolished: "Love works no ill to his neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." "He is not a Jew which is one outwardly... circumcision is that of the heart" "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart.. Love ye therefore the stranger" Deuteronomy 10:16,19.

That is not the case. There is one who went around Israel asking the 'Jews' for such family trees, and non produced any, only asserted that they have them. (you can search youtube for his videos if you like, it's just him walking around Israel and asking 'Jews' questions that his audience wanted him to ask) I am speaking from many years of having researched this topic, and having first believed them as being authentic Jews. The account of B Goldstein is not an assumption. What we can see happening in Israel is not an assumption, so-called strangers are being turned aside from their right, there are many military checkpoints at crossroads that literally hold people captive, just as prophesied by Obadiah. The scripture puts things into correct perspective. And the scripture is clear. There are those who say they are Jews and are not but do lie, and are a synagogue of Satan, so said Christ.

Dear one, with all you've said your still assuming that those people are actual Jews, and you have no proof of that at all. From the record of scripture, we can conclude that many are lying about their nationality [Rev 2:9, 3:9, Jeremiah 51:27, Ezekiel 36:1-2, Malachi 1:3-4, 3:5] and thereby also hiding the truth of the real children of Israel. [Deuteronomy 28:43-44, 64, Jeremiah 23:27,39] Who is B. Goldstein? And what did he do? He went into a mosc and shot and killed many innocent people who were praying. And today among the so-called Jews he is seen as some great holy man, which is complete blasphemous nonsense that they would hold murder in high regard. Fact. "Woe unto them that join house to house and field to field that they may dwell alone in the midst of the land" Isaiah 5:8 "Them that say: stand over there by yourself, for I am holier than thou; these cause My wrath to smoke" Isaiah 65:5 "You rely upon your sword.. and shall you posses the land?" Ezekiel 33:26 "I will be a swift witness against.. false swearers.. and them that turn aside the stranger from his right" Malachi 3:5

..Because as the Father has life in himself, so has He given to the Son to have life in Himself; And has given Him authority to execute judgement also... Marvel not at this for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice and shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; Rev 20:4-5 and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of condemnation. Rev 20:13-15 John 5:24-29 [Acts 24:15, Rev 20:4-15]

"And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains... neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all" Ezekiel 37:22 Mainstream preachers and teachers and some Bibles in the commentary will want you to believe that that verse came to pass in 1948. But from 1948 to now Israel has only become increasingly divided, literally divided, with various checkpoints at crossroads, as Obadiah spoke against. It is not one nation, it is 3 divided territories; Israel, the west bank, and the Gaza strip. And Ezekiel 37:22 says it would not be divided any more at all. Therefore clearly Ezekiel 37:22 can not apply to what happened in 1948-1967.

If those claiming to be Jews are really Jews, then you can say that any word against them is perhaps 'anti-Semetic'. But if they are not truly Jews then they are the true anti-Semites. If we take a close look at scripture (as I showed you, and hope that you sincerely study the scripture I shared with you) it reveals the truth. I stand by the word of Christ and therefore recognize the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not but do lie. Rev 2:9, 3:9. If your sincere, you should seek out the real history of the apartheid that started in 1967 by the so-called Jews. A history of those such as Baruch Goldstein. A history of occupation and murder.

'the stranger that dwells among you shall get up very high above you, he shall lend to you and you shall not lend to him' Deut 28:43-44 Today in Israel the so-called Jews are the ones doing the lending. 'Esau, when strangers cast lots for Jerusalem even you were as one of them' 1917 Balfor declaration. 'Esau, you should not have gloated over your brother in the day that he became a stranger' 'You should not have stood in the crossroads to make captive those of his that did remain' The many military checkpoints at various crossroads established since 1967 fit perfectly with what Obadiah said. 'the day of the Lord is near..' 'deliverers shall come up on mount Zion, to judge the mount of Esau, and the kingdom shall be the Lords' Obadiah 1:6-21 'Whereas Esau/Edom says; we are impoverished, but let us return and build the desolate places. Thus says the Lord; they may build, but I will throw down' Malachi 1:3-4 'I will be a swift witness against... false swearers... and them that turn aside the stranger from his right' Malachi 3:5 In Israel today, the so-called strangers are being forcefully evicted from their homes and other such persecution at the hands of those who say they have a God given right to behave in such manner. But the Lord has promised to be a witness against such behavior. "The Lord God shall defend them, and they shall subdue and devour, with sling stones" Zechariah 9:15 Since 1967 it is the so-called Palestinians that have had to fight against soldiers and tanks and bulldozers, with what they have, just stones. The Bible declares that when Israel is restored, that they will dwell without walls or gates or bars. Ezekiel 38:11 Today in Israel the so-called Jews live in homes with bars and gates, and soldiers outside for protection. (watch 'the settlers' documentary from 2002) and they also built a defensive wall around parts of the west bank. Ezekiel 37 has not happened yet, Ezekiel 37 is a prophesy of the resurrections to come, the Lord will resurrect Israel from death and bring them back into their land gloriously, 'an exceedingly great army' Ezekiel 37:9-10. We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air as part of the army spoken of in Ezekiel 37, Jude 1:14-15 and Revelation 19. Clearly Paul is referring to the day of vengeance, when the Lord comes to be glorified in His saints; 2 Thess 1:7-10 and not about some mysterious disappearance of people.

I have speculated that perhaps the mark will be something that supposedly connects people to a super quantum computer (that is inside a newly built temple, therefore that computer would be the abomination of desolation) that supposedly can store and monitor consciousness. The computer would supposedly be able to transfer consciousness from one connected body to another, and in this manner people would supposedly be able to live forever, just by receiving the mark; an electronic tattoo connecting them to the computer. It all being presented by one claiming to be 'Jesus' and therefore claiming to give us 'eternal life'. Such would be the strong delusion such that they believe the lie, the same lie Satan told Eve; 'thou shalt not die'.

Yes, evidence: Deuteronomy 28:43-44, 64 the book of Obadiah, Jeremiah 51:27, Ezekiel 36:1-2, Zechariah 9:15, Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 and what we can see happening in Israel today. Obadiah spoke of those standing at crossroads holding people captive. And we can see all the various military checkpoints at crossroads, installed by the so-called Jews, that hold many people captive today in Israel. The evidence is in the word of God. "Deuteronomy 28:43-44 So if we look at who lends to who in Israel, then yes the so-called Palestinians are the ones borrowing, and the so-called Jews are the ones doing the lending."

Not all of the so-called Jews are false, and not all of the so-called Palestinians are true. The nation of Israel is under the prophesied curse. The stranger that dwells among them has gotten up very high above them, the strangers do the lending and the Jews do not. Deuteronomy 28:43-44. So if we look at who lends to who in Israel, then yes the so-called Palestinians are the ones borrowing, and the so-called Jews are the ones doing the lending. Much of the misguided notions of prophecy come from the misguided notion that 1948 was some great return to Israel of the Jews, and it was not. Strangers invaded and started a military occupation of the land that continues to this day.

"Search for 'Ashkenazi Jews' in youtube and you'll find many various videos on the subject..." Also: The book of Obadiah, notable verses being 6-7, 11,14-15, and 21. Revelation 2:9, 3:9. Jeremiah 51:27 mentions the Ashekenazi, which makes clear they are not Jews, none of the videos will deny that the modern 'Jews' are Ashkenazi. Deuteronomy 28:43-44, 64 together with Zechariah 9:15 and a look at the state of modern Israel, makes clear who is who and what is what.