Starise

Why? I as going to comment on it. I believe God was in what you said.

Thanks. The audio buffer was stuttering there. Not sure if it's coming from the site or my equipment. Thanks for listening and comments.

One I recently wrote. Me and an acoustic guitar.

I read through this book by a few Canadian baptists- Henry and Richard Blackaby. Not selling books here, but it's an ok book on the subject from a more or less orderly theological approach. In the first part of the book they list all of the ways God spoke in the bible. I don't have the book with me right now. I'll just say the list is long, and I don't think it's a totally exhaustive list. They give examples for how God told them to do things that seemed crazy. At every turn God blessed those things. There is another book which is really a large pamplet I read specifically directed to women, but it has application for anyone. Don't remember the author, but I can dig it up. God told this woman to talk to a man sitting next to her on a flight about the Lord. She ended up giving him him her favorite bible. The one she had underlined verses and put notes in. Later on at a convention she was speaking at, this man was there and told her that day changed his life. He is now a believer. I read another book called- The Quest For the Radical Middle, which is a history of the Vinyard churches, with the central character John Wimber who was really the founder of Vinyard churches. He has an interesting background since he was about as pagan as any human being could be before coming to Christ along with his wife. Planted churches all over the world or was responsible for it happening. If you read on you'll understand where I'm going with this. Many thousands were saved and baptized. The author of the book, Todd Hunter talks about a theological middle with his theory being that once churches grow they either fall on one side or the other of a line. They either become cessationist or they go the other way too far putting too much emphasis on the spiritual gifts. Vinyard's aim was to be accepting of the gifts, but only on a solid biblcal basis, unlike the charismatics and some pentacostals. So thy seen themselves in the middle. They FULLY believe in healing, and FULLY believe God gives people words of prophecy among other things. IOW not cessationist because they felt it limited God and wasn't biblical, yet they don't allow public tongues unless biblically supported. They aren't against tonques. They don't believe healing is always God's answer , however they believe it is something that usually happens and not an occasional thing if a person prays and believes. Prophecy I was told in my early Christian life was something only prophets did and they are all dead now because we are no longer in that "dispensation". Boy was I wrong. God still gifts people with dreams and visions, but it seems only a few churches acknowledge it in a public way even encouraging it. God speaks in this way. There is a certain amount of risk involved in the open acceptance of these gifts, because the false ones can get in there. Wimber had some genuine prophetic people. He also went through some growing pains in that denomination, some of it because of their acceptance of prophetic gifts. Sometimes God will give someone with that gift a word for you personally, or for someone else. I'm sure there are other churches who are open to God speaking in this way, but the mainline baptists, methodists and presbyterians do now believe any of this still happens. They would be cessationist. Surprisingly many mennonites are accepting. If you are gifted in this way and in a cessationist church, please do not be discouraged and by all means use what God gives you.

This would be like taking a given, such as the bible, and saying that there is only one given or that there can't be further representations of it. When specifically talking about hearing the voice of God we have plenty of biblical precident from persons who had no bible in sight at the time.

While I like those guys who were some amazing preachers, I don't entirely agree with them, and so as not to derail that's all I'll say for now. I will say I am in agreement with them over the fundamentals. They all come from one area of thinking. I have taken other areas of thinking into account that I feel are no less biblical. And while the bible is of paramount importance as our main guide, God surely works in other ways besides just reading it. Anything that happens to me I will interpret using the bible. However, the things of God never stopped working and the things He does are often only held back by a lack of faith in His ability. Those guys are encapsualted in a theological system which some may or may not agree with in totality. It looks good on paper but I have found some of it lacking in purpose for me personally. If such things "did the trick" I say go for it, especially on the hard cases. I'm sure angels are scary but man would I ever love to have a few of them wake up persons who don't believe in a metaphysical. Yes if only we could have all experienced God as a little child. That was the case with me being saved early in life because there was a lot I did not know. This worked for me not against me. A theory tries to describe how something works, yet if it in fact works, then we need to work backwards. The world prides themselves in becoming more sophisticated. This has led to the new atheism where large swaths of people in the world have all talked themselves out of a God. Just look at their 'evidence' and on the other side of it we have believers arguing things they don't fully understand just because. I'll call them teacher followers who believe eveything their favorite teachers say which is more about trust than logic. The created have out smarted their creator eliminating Him from their lives. They claim to be happy as a result. Maybe so if only temporarily. It will one day be God obvious to them hopefully before it's too late. Foreknowing and predestination are catch phrases for a doctrine not everyone here holds. I have explained in other areas how I resolve this. God destined ALL men to be saved, some were called to speacial purposes and God knows what every man and woman will eventually CHOOSE. In that sense I agree, but don't let this be confused with faith and free will. God is faithful no doubt. The most reliable being in the universe.

Which is very sad, and yet groups of you all praying for Holland will have an impact. In my area there are groups meeting from different churches with a mind to worship and pray for our area. Just because a rule such as abortion is made does not mean we have lost! Maybe the majority will be led not to take advantage of such rules. Prayer has an impact on an area. Especially if it is directed in unity with multiple churches meeting in agreement. Not the apostate churches, the real churches with the real believers in them. My country is headed the same direction. Sometimes I think this will only serve to contrast the true evil to those who can see it for what it is. I have a friend in Switzerland who tells me the churches are all going away, so I made a search for myself. Yes the state run churches are nothing but useless fluff, but there are a network of churches there if one cares to look who are only growing stronger. Unfortunately it may take clamity for some to look past their pocket books. Yet some will curse God either way. It's been a while since a lot of this abortion legislation was passed. Are people happier with all of this social modification? I see countries across the world realizing how much worse it is becoming. The creep may be slow. The bible tells us there will be marrying and people going about normal business when the Lord comes. Many think creature comforts will make a person happy, yet in places of wealth we just have wealthy miserable people. They can only be "happy" if they have learned how to ignore the obvious which is really living in a dream.

You know when I seen this thread I wasn't going to comment on it due to the potential for misunderstandings. I believe we are all supposed to be involved where we are appointed to be involved. If that's politics for someone, who am I to argue it? The motive from a Christian perspective would be to make things better which ties into the whole love our neighbor idea. I think that's the reason many believers look to leadership positions. For me, it's all about motive. Like salt influences food we influence the world around us. Not by domination or force of any kind. Being mere branches we are only bearing fruit of any kind from the source. That's how I see myself, and I will say that I often don't feel as effective as I should be. If I bear fruit I want to bear more fruit. Use me up Lord. The parable of the vine and the branches I think is most closely related to grapes for me and even if the grapes get pressed something even better comes from it.

To your point 1-That's a pretty radical disclosure. Sometimes I wonder why God doesn't do that for all unbelievers. When you say you let people steer you, does that mean only certain people? I am doubting it's just any old person. 2-Events we can't get away from. Sometimes events are more specific to us I have found. It's in those events I sometimes feel God directly speaking. If I know the inner voice I follow it. on point 3- When I think of some people I think, "if only". You were very fortunate.

Yep. We are to influence by being what we are and by doing what we are called to do. Our kingdom is not of this world, but will be a part of the world one day. Christians cannot impose their beliefs by force on an unaccepting public politically.

I agree. Even not following the "law" and doing protestant Christian things can leave a person empty if they do them for the wrong reasons.

I have had the same thing although it would be hard to describe to someone who doesn't have that connection. Not a voice externally, more of an inner voice.

Everything in creation has a function, as we see the angels being used in various ways. God chooses to use His creation to manage. As you said, God created the earth and placed men on it to tend it. Satan thought he had seriously undermined God's efforts when he tempted Eve. and he did do a lot of damage, but as changed ones through the blood of Christ we are new kingdom plants representing the future kingdom here on earth presently. In that sense we are forerunners of the new kingdom. Even in a fallen state men and women continue to have stewardship over the earth. Before sin, all they had to do was tend the visible creation and worship God. After sin we as believers have the additional task of spreading the word in whatever way the Lord gives us to do so. Faith is simply taking God at His word. If we do that we are believers as opposed to unbelievers who reject God and follow Satan. Either knowingly or unkowingly.

Good stuff there !

If we read the bible we can see how God spoke in many different ways. Often using dreams and visions, at least once through a burning bush, once in a still small voice. God can use others who are spirit filled to help us. And yes, even verbally at times as @other one says. I haven't personally experienced this but I believe it happens. God can speak comfort and peace to us using others and our circumstances. He can speak directly into our hearts about whatever matters we might need help in.

I agree His voice comes through the word, but I don't think it's always only the word. And it's always a good thing to have the word in our hearts no doubt. Yet if we follow scripture we see God speaking in various other ways.

How have you heard the "voice" of God? Do events steer you? Do people steer you? Does an internal leaning steer you ? Presumably the voice of God. When have you heard His voice the loudest, and have you maybe wondered at times if he was there at all?

New covenant? Meaning zero laws other than the main two Love God with all your heart and neighbor as self?

I have heard so many people write off daily drinking as a casual thing they have under control. Since we lost a nephew in his 30's to liver damage the result of what he must have thought was casual drinking, but he was drinkingg the high octane stuff and it doesn't take much of that. Having had both my father and grandfather drink I seen the effects of it. My dad would say he only had "a few beers" but he could barely walk when he got home. And as a result of the drinking it put him in a crowd of people who were not good to be around where he met some people opposite sex. I think the drink contributed to those lower inhibitions which took him on a course of marriages that ended with him back a square one realizing he was miserable. If he had not looked for a bar he would not have been introduced to these other things. My mother died not long after and he spent his remaining days in front of a TV. He claimed faith in Christ later on but never showed any signs of it. In the case of my grandfather, he was more of a home person. I seen the alcohol slowly take him from a decent looking guy down to less than 100 pounbs living on a sofa with a cigarette between his fingers so often they were deep brown. Beer was his food. It didn't turn out so well. He had successfully retired but chose to spend his remaining days sitting on a sofa in front of a TV drinking and smoking. When he died he was nothing but skin and bones. These were both gifted manly men who just didn't care to do anything at the end of their lives. Life without God had removed all motivation. Lots more out there now than booze which is why I think many look as booze almost like it's iced tea. It's the acceptable slow death, or maybe fast death all depending.

@RTRider Welcome to the forum! Sorry I might have missed your introduction. What you said resonated with me. Total committment seemed to be the last hang up for me, and I argued it with myself in telling myself that I was doing all the right stuff, but had not given areas of my life to the Lord. It's a battle I can fight almost daily sometimes as those little things come along that when all accumulated, make a lot of distraction. Some of those things I like to do and aren't even bad things, but have the potential to become bigger in the picture than they should be. I appreciate you sharing that, as it takes a lot for some people to open up like that. I believe the Lord will reward your willingness to give all. In my case, He had to do some radical things with me and now I am at least pointed in the right direction, hut like you I still sometimes struggle in areas like we probably all do I suppose.

Kwik I can only say this about myself as I have no part in what anyone else does. If you ever come across something you think I need to change please PM me about it and we'll talk. I also see Worthy as a ministry, not that we can't enjoy fellowship. We are "ministering" to others and to each other in fellowship of the things we all hold in common. I don't see ministering as a switch I turn on, I see it as a thing that happens because of who we are.

It was a great honor to lead worship at my church Sunday. Sat was my birthday. We went to a church for prayer and afterward I bought a new guitar which is featured in this recording I made last night. I promise I don't make 'downer songs' all the time, but I wrote this one with a heavy heart for the lost.

Reality will never meet expectations in entirety. When that happens it can hurt and be very frustrating.

@Marathoner I appreciate your thoughts. I am prone to think many go this route. I did as well. I never disconnected logic, however when something geuine happens we can ask those questions later. Some will insist on mind>heart as the only way to truly flesh things out. I think this makes a lot of sense on one level. I mean we need the undiltued and pure knowledge to have the complete picture wouldn't you agree? There is a move to deconstruct events or to put then in such as way that it discredits God. It never is the whole picture.

Good words brother. We are told to be holy as He is holy. I believe some read far more into that that the original intent.