Starise

I'm glad you brought the difference between human and spiritual enemies as I was just about to say it. We can love a human enemy and hate the spiritual enemy. I don't believe the context " Love your enemies" applies to the unseen ones. The first stage in the recognition of these enemies is to recognize how they work. The next thing is to recognize the arrows which often will attack your faith. - I am close to God, why is this happening to me. Arrow> God must not care about me, how do I even know He exists? why doesn't He intervene? Shield- God has promised to help me though everything. He lives inside of me and comforts me. Draw the sword - Arrow>There are errors in the bible. How do I know any of this is true? Shield > All inconsistency is minor translation that never affected meanings. Draw the sword. - Arrow> I won't have any fun as a believer. Shield > I have had many great times, in fact more fun than when I was an unbeliever. Reality- I signed up to be on a side which means I will sometimes be in a battle. Unrealistic to think otherwise.AND YET, I can have perfect peace through all of it.Draw the sword. - Arrow> Why Do I see those who don't follow God doing well? Shield- Keep in mind this is all they will ever have. We will all answer for our actions and be held accountable. No exceptions.Draw the sword. -Arrow> Look at that person who calls themself a brother or sister. Look at what they did. If that's a Christian I want no parts of it. Shield- How do you know they are a believer? If they are a believer, I should approach them in love. If I can't do that I leave them to clear their lane and I will clear my lane. God sees all. Draw the sword. - Arrow> I am tired and don't believe I can continue in this walk. I need a break. Shield> I am the vine you are the branch, you can do nothing without Me. Abide in me. I will give you rest. Draw the sword, if only to polish it this time.

Some of the things Paul wrote I need to read over several times to grok. In essence, yes I agree. This is really a pretty deep discussion though, because it spills over into lots of things one person thinks are insignificant and the other think it is. Both say they have bible for it. At the base, we are no longer under Mosaic law. But getting further into this, some (both denominations and individuals) are, to use this term loosely, legalistic. They make a gift from Jesus into a set of do's and don'ts. Have you ever felt as if you were doing ok until someone comes along with a ruler telling everyone how off we all are? A legalist who likes to tell us there is one or more areas we need to specifically do a thing that's either no longer required or something they just made up.

Please describe how you see Worthy.

1 Cor. 12:31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. And yet I will show you the most excellent way.

@enoob57 If you have specifics we can make another thread to discuss it. The outcome might not change.

I agree, however we may never know what kind of fish swallowed Jonah or what fruit Eve ate in the garden. On some subjects I see the bible like a big puzzle and all the pieces are dumped on a table ready to be assembled. Most of the puzzle can be assembled. Basic message is not complex. Sometimes we think a piece fits until we try it and it doesn't. Sometimes we want a piece to fit and it doesn't. Other times it fits but others say it doesn't. I'll get me coat now.

You and me both. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.

In the scripture you posted I immediately thought of Samson and Delilah. Judges 13-16 You probably know the story. Samson had a penchant for foreign women which he was forbidden to. One woman in particular. He loved her. I believe we see the signals that someone who appears to be friendly is really an enemy in disguise. We may sincerely like them and we may want them to like us so much we have this internal argument that, no, it must not have been what we thought it was because she is so nice and attractive and has so much going for her, but really when the mask was stripped away she disliked him and was looking for any angle to bring him down. He was the enemy of her people and had zero interest in anything but his destruction. Part of me thinks Samson knew something was wrong but ignored it because his emotions took over and he allowed her to get close enough to him to bring his ruin. I have had false friends similar to that. Externally they looked like real friends. They acted friendly. This is a tactic of the enemy. A way he can get close to you in order to hurt you more. So my take away is, if someone appears to have interest don't think it's always good. Be very cautious. Yes the Lord can save these people as well. The enemy can come as a friend. They will eventually be exposed, but don't let them take you down before it happens. Evil often looks good. Jesus hung out with people who were into all kinds of things and in order for us to follow our purposes we may be in similar situations. We can't let them rub off. As much as we would like to think they are one way, the Lord will reveal otherwise. The enemy comes to steal kill and destroy. When a thief steals he does it in secret. You can't destroy a person who sees their destruction coming.

On most forums I go to where I am a member there is always that core group who hang around. Going to Worthy is almost a habit when I have the time and am on a computer. We have seen others come and go. Some of them I thought would hang around and others I liked and hoped they would stay. Some show up to sample and for one reason or another this just isn't a place they like. Others hang around and complain but never leave lol. I have mentioned this web site to several of my friends.Even giving them the link. For one reason or another this wasn't something they cared enough to even try. In others they were just too busy. I have been on various forums for a long time and always appreciated that core group who I am usually a part of by default because I am habitual like that. In those other groups it isn't biblical. It's other interests and noone ever gets caught up in who or what is right. I might be only one of two Christians on the whole web site. None of those sites allow discussion of religion or politics on their sites, so we are all more neutral there. Not always a good thing. One friend of mine who owns a web site listened to me when I requested a free for all area. I almost got my butt ripped off but it was fun. We had pot smokers and atheists and people who just hate everyone and ..well you get the gist. Back then I was more into some of the conspiracy stuff which to my discredit was not the way to have quality conversation with these people. I never said I believed it. Doesn't matter. All you have to do is mention it, even if there might be a probability it is true. Worthy on the other hand is a Christian web site which makes us a target often times, and as you know Satan doesn't openly come in. He sneaks in and then makes trouble. It's a core of sheep with the wolves circling daily like sharks looking for a weakling to pick off.

Saying I feel something missing in my Christian life is far better than saying I no longer feel like a Christian. That would be another totally different discussion.

It's 'us' in the equation that causes these things IMO. We were talking about biblical interpretations and not the perfection of God. God is perfect. Men have a long way to go. Most Christians agree on the basic core doctrines meaning we never reject Jesus as the Son of God. We don't have access to perfect knowledge and are often in some subjects on a need to know basis. One day we will know as we are known. Cessation, OSAS, end times, all of that are often hotly debated. If we study we will be approved as 2 Timothy teaches. We are at different stages of development. There is a difference between a sincere effort to know the truth and an effort to cover over a thing we hold as a prize we won't let go of because that was our training. I was dogmatic on a lot of things I have changed my mind on. Wisdom does not argue these things.

Sometimes we can have carried away emotional tendencies for physical reasons. I had way too much coffee yesterday and I forgot to take my vitamins. I just had this overwhelming sense of depression for no apparent reason. Today I pushed water instead of coffee and took my vitamins. I am in a much better frame of mind today. I really think it was the excessive coffee. I am on a med to help me sleep I take only at night. It is also an anti-depressant, so I had thoughts maybe that was creating some kind of a brain chemical imbalance. I still praised God through it, but I felt terrible.

It seems most here come for the fellowship.

You are so very gracious @D. Adrien and I have enjoyed everything you've written. It is I who should thank you.

Well I guess I learned the hard way. Nothing is ever as simple as I originally think it is :)

Yeah, not much point in anything if He is going to decide everything for us, neither would it be the 'fair' thing to do.

Sorry there, I was just making a general comment. I don't think you are skeptical, although in this day and age it might not be such a bad idea under certain circumstances :) I recently had a friend of mine who happens to be a judge in a large county give me his take on Mosaic law in writing and I found it interesting although the person I intended it for probably didn't even bother to read it. We don't beat slaves or even have slaves now and we don't let a rapist marry the girl he raped if he pays off the father. So yes, Things have changed a lot. The 4th commandmenta is a point of contention with some. I see it mainly directed to the Jews, although church attendance is supported as wholesome and suggested elsewhere in the bible. The 'tribs' is where things get really mucky mainly due to the teachings of major denominations.

I don't disrespect hermeneutics. If everything were defnitive we would have no need for discussion even amongst biblically educated persons. If we could unbox biblical study and take it away from bias it would be far more productive. It becomes your hermeneutic and my hermeneutic.

If God expects us to study we have to ask the tough questions and have answers so far as we are able to answer. This means we don't become myopic and hyper focus on subsets of bible.

Well I am probably the opinion man here and not the answer man.I have looked at both. I see predestination as a determined purpose aimed at specific individuals for specific purposes. The whole reformed view rests on the idea that a soveriegn God already sends some to hell and chooses others for heaven. I think this is because they are taking specific cases and applying them to all of us. Yes, God assigned John the Baptist to a task from birth. God did certainly set some people up for unique callings before they were born. God does not ever contradict Himself. Those not assigned at birth to tasks are the rest of us. Does God know what their decisions will be? Yes I think He does or He would not be God. This does not negate their freedom to decide. I think God draws and God reveals specifically to individuals for the purposes of bringing them to Himself. He makes the choice very apparent. From my human perspective this seems a very difficult task. Show them His love through goodness and prosperity and they forget Him. Cause calamity and many will blame Him. If He exists He must be cruel and He caused this to happen. So in that respect He can't win with some people who are just determined to either not believe or hate Him if He exists. The answer might be coming to a place where everything is empty, even the best of the best is empty. No pursuit for happiness ever fulfills. There are different ways people can come to the end of the rope. Living miserable in a mansion all alone isn't fulfilling. Material things are nice to have, but they are external things that don't feed the internal. Substances can make one feel better temporarily, but then there is the day after and the hangovers and the need to explain what you said while you were under the influence. Addictions always leave more emptiness at the end than they ever fill. Some come to the realization young and some waste their lives trying to find it.

And this is one complaint among those who are skeptical. The way I see this there are areas the bible isn't as specific on. Even Jesus didn't know the day of the hour of the Lord's return. He may know it now that He sits at the right hand of the Father. I think this should be a lesson that there are areas we only know as through a glass darkly as Paul said. No room for cocky 'experts' in my opinion. Several thoughts which are potential conclusions: -Everyone can know everything about the bible. -No one can know anything about the bible. -We can all know what we need to know or what was intended for us to know. -We should all study and be hesitant to present dogmatic conclusions. -We should all study with the knowledge that the bible is presented spiritually and knowing it will be misunderstood by those who do not have this benefit or intend to have it. -If the bible is understood spiritually, some will assume they are 'spiritual' and therefore they will usurp an authority self imposed. -It is possible for a spiritual man to misunderstand the bible. -It is possible for an unspiritual man to understand the bible if they have a sincere interest. - It is common for critical unbelievers to find fault -It is common for believers to cover over questions they can't answer. - There are many supposed inconsistencies which really aren't inconsistencies when further analyzed. - There are translational inconsistencies. -There are no translational inconsistencies - If there are inconsistencies, they inhibit interpretations sometimes. - The bible is contextually unified - The bible is not contextually unified. - We can template anything that happened to the Israelites and apply all of it to us today. - We cannot template the bible and apply it to all of us today - We can template some of the bible and apply it to use today.

I believe @faithfull-prophet4040 is honest about something that often plagues many belivers, which is that we have times of human weakness that in no way affect our standing eternally.

The dynamics of the universe come into play and mean more than just huge distances. If one believes God put it all in place, the it's up to Him whether He decided to put other life in other places. So far all we have are suggestions for what might be coming from all the probes sent out, and the realization that other planetary environments are extremely hostile to the possibility of life. Lately the nearest they can come is Titan, which has large expanses of water according to the probes. There are arguments both ways.Even a planet with minus 300F has an inner core that could be warmed by the flux of the core, causing optimism among those who want to find life. We are either very special or very plain. Very special in the context that no other planets for billions of miles have the unique environmental qualities that foster life with other planets all being extremely hostile. Go figure. This would make us very special. If God sent His ONLY Son to die for us, then that in and of itself makes an immense statement about our value. So many things just had to "happen" in exact ways to allow us to be here making this all very intentional. If I had a locker with a combination lock on it and stood there for a million years I might get the combination with my very INTENTIONAL effort, yet if we don't have even intention involved that means no one made a lock to figure out in the first place which means the probabilities of anything lining up, even at a basic level are zero. To try and explain the complexity involved at each stage as something that simply happened is ludicrous. Since we have intention and since God places so much value on men, even above angels, it seems very unlikely that there are any other projects He is working on involving other beings.

I believe in a forum format there are exceptions and disadvantages over a one on one. Still it's a great thing if used to the best use.

I agree. Is a forum the format for that? Just thinking out loud.