TCC

What we find in His word is that the three leading nations in Ezekiel 38 (whom never aligned or partnered before in world history). Since 2017 they have been allied. Whatever that means it infers it is something potential in our life time.

Yes some view it as Armageddon. There are also views of it occurring before, at, or otherwise during the tribulation.

Since November 2017 Russia, Iran, and Turkey have made an alliance in the UN. These are the 3 leading nations in Ezekiel 38. This alliance never occurred before in history. The hard placement ID is Russia. Josephus in the 1st century thought Magog was the Scythian people mapped out in the region of Kazakhstan then. From 800 BC to 200 BC the Scythian race ruled various locations north of the Black Sea (throughout Russian regions). Russia has museum displays and online details claiming the Scythians as their ancestors. For the past 3 years Russia, Turkey, and Iran have jointly met in Kazakhstan regarding what to do with Syria. The idea that Gog and Magog occurs after the reign of Christ is due to reformation theology viewing Ezekiel 37 as ultimately having Israel supernaturally raised from the dead. In theory, the layout of chapter 37 looks to be evolutionary in nature. Like how things look "over time." It could be 1948 +. And the part where Israel is believing in Christ likely a reference to its peak during the tribulation of 144k. So it may be that Ezekiel 38 occurs in our lifetime prior to, at, or during the tribulation. There are people watching the lineup with all the nation states listed in Ezekiel 38. It has been forming in that exact direction for 3 years now. It looks possibly about 2 years off if it continues in that trajectory. Something to consider perhaps. Blessings.

No actually not at all. I am not calling you catholic or saying you are bringing dogma. What I am saying is that you are basing Darbyism as new in comparison to the dark ages. That is what i am saying...but you don't want to address that. You want to pretend as if you had already addressed it. Prior to the Alexandrian school of allegorizing that took hold of the bible and Christendom in the early centuries of the new millennia, the church fathers (past the 1st century--believed in Revelation futurism). Then the dark ages for 1,000 + years with inquisition and crusade and death threat to differ in theological was the rule of the day. To ignore that the dark ages threatened any other view with torture and death and pretend it was the way "the church believed and should have believed" historically, is to paint an inaccurate picture so as to provide you with an easy peazy argument that Darbyism was new. That was my point. I am address the point of your making Darbyism as new as sound historical understanding. You may mean well, but that argument is a pop culture argument is what i meant. Blessings.

Well they looked like they came out of a 2,000 year diaspora. And now are a world super power. To some effect it would appear (since no other nation on earth can claim this type of regathering after losing their nationality) that they have been gathered to some effect.

The simple dilemma is that amillennialism was held for over a thousand years in the dark ages under Catholicism. To qualify that (where you could lose your life if you theologically differed) as what the church should have been believing is not sound exegesis.

One way I think we might look upon the issue of where Israel is in the timeline of God's calendar = Ezekiel 38. Just in general, what it would seem to be true about Israel is that Ezekiel 36 and 37 describe an evolutionary development in the later days and would tend to blend two timeframes together for poetic cohesion of God's intent. When Old Testament saints viewed their Messiah coming they viewed Him as coming once and setting up the kingdom. They did not have the spiritual foresight to understand that there was a first and second coming. So applying that to how we are shown the Jewish nation in the last days we can see that they have been gathered, and had many struggles but also many successes. They also had been given recent favor of their own capital Jerusalem and Golan Heights. In addition they also claimed to be a "Religious Nation." Knesset makes it official: Israel is a Jewish state (jns.org) My point is that it would seem that Israel will come back to their land as in 1948 and slowly emerge into a world super power (which they are today), and have super strong defenses, and technology hotly sought after, and riches (like natural gas and oil recently discovered)...all as they get skin and meat on those dry bones. I believe we are seeing poetically Israel having come of age as a nation again, amen. But it would appear Ezekiel's use of prophecy implies difficult times coming for Israel (Ezekiel 38-39) and the millennial kingdom thereafter (Ezekiel 40-48). I believe what Ezekiel 38 demonstrated is an Israel during (or even approaching) the tribulation period (which during they will become a nation for God again via the 144k--during the tribulation winning souls for Christ). THE PROBLEM OF EZEKIEL 38 There has been a recent line up in 2017 of Russia, Iran, and Turkey. This has never been before in history. In November of 2017 theses nations formed a UN alliance. Turkey and Iran are obvious to get from the text. Russia is a bit harder. Josephus in the 1st century thought Magog was the Scythian people (who's region in those days be referred to as Kazakhstan). The Scythian people historically have been (from 800 to 200 BC) a people governing various regions in the upper Black Sea areas (known as Russia). Russia considers the Scythians their ancestors through their own museum displays and online searchable connections and affirmations. Ironically over the course of the past several years, Russia, Turkey, and Iran have been jointly meeting in Kazakhstan regarding Syria. It would appear that Ezekiel 38 is coming into form. Perhaps something to further research and pulse developments as more nations listed in Ezekiel 38 lean toward lining up with this prophecy. Blessings.

When I see this particular view I look for the counterbalance of sober thought that would be presumed to accompany it. When this view is shared and stressed how new some doctrines are and leave out what it is comparing "new" to, to me, it more than suggests it is not as sober minded as it thinks upon itself it is. For it appears to be lacking self awareness. For a good chunk of the church age (from like 400 AD to 1500 AD) the church was pretty much in the dark ages ruled by Catholics chaining bibles to the pulpit not wanting the common people to read the word for themselves. So if that is the foundation of what sound biblical positions are to you (those beliefs about the bible influenced by Alexandrian School producing massive allegorizing and partnered with keeping laity biblically illiterate on purpose for holy superior show) I would ask you to consider this logic. For if amillennialism is true it is true as enforced by the Catholic church. And we would be claiming that to move from that position is to move from holy Catholic churches protection of God's word (even though used to intimidate and gaslight laity). With those odds, I would say a few hundred years of thinking outside the box of inquisitional tortures, if you did not have the proper doctrine, might be the right amount of time for sober men to better understand what the word is saying WHEN its not under oppressive dogma. Blessings.

Understandable. But early church fathers did have some nuances of futurism. To think that is new, based on the Catholic church ruling the dark ages for over a century, to me, is suggesting that Rome had it right for over 1,000 years. You are saying Rome's theology of Amillennialism is not a doctrine of Rome? Unfortunately, that is where that sort of thinking lands you. Siding with Rome regardless. How would you explain Ezekiel 38 unfolding in the middle east?

It also aligns with their Catholic roots. The reformers brought with them the dark ages Catholic belief of amillennialism. But dispensationalism did come from the reformers. You might have asked how so. But even still, here is an interesting article that seems to be helpful in making some of those connections. Blessings. The Calvinistic Heritage of Dispensationalism (liberty.edu)

I agree with you that we should not be thinking the devil is in charge. I am a futurist, but are you aware that dispensationalism came out of Calvinism and the reformation? To see dispensationalism as some new recent theory that cannot be correct is to believe that the church under the Catholic Dark Ages (where we were not allowed to read the bible and the Alexandrian allegorizing of the bible) was the correct view for over 1,000 years? How could theology develop under totalitarians rule? Are we saying that since the crusades and inquisitions kept the body of Christ in order, we would consider any doctrine that a man or woman would have been killed or tortured for against the holy church of Rome would not be accurate doctrine because it went against papistry? Are you sure that God's word chained to a lectern so that common man could not read it was the spirits intent for the church for 1,ooo years?

It is very healthy to get to know where another person is coming from. I have seen a lot online where presumption are made. We will all do it. But being in a path where we learn from others about where they are coming from is the patience and character of love. Romans 15:2 2Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. We can't really do that is we don't know them as well as we might.

I agree we should own it. But as for the wedding parable there are two main views. 1) As you describe (Jew/Gentile), and 2) only Jewish. I tend to go with 2 because if you see the surrounding events to that parable and the intense disagreeable stance of Christ against the Israeli leadership (His own people forsaking Him), the king invited the noble leaders, and they refused, and then the king invited anyone walking around (still Israel), but these were common folk. What I believe this shows is it is not class acceptance for even though a lower class got in, if they are not clothed with the gospel, they cannot be at the party doing the law. I think you make some good observations. But it is good to keep in mind (something we really don't have our own context to consider) how INCREDIBLY intense it would be for Jews to be broken off from their own faith AND their own messiah. This is a major issue to Christ at that time. And a huge issue for the Jews (who because of their rejecting Christ lost their temple in 70AD and their own national identity for 2,000 years). This seems far more fitting. The Jews were not conceptualizing about integrating gentiles into the faith at this point. It seems to be the context that Jesus is confronting the Jewish faith for their unbelief. Hope this is helpful. Blessings.

If we look at Matt 24:24 and 2 Thes 2:11...these are both in context and proximity of the middle of the tribulation. When antichrist demands worship. No?

My life verse is actually Heb 11:6. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for the one who comes to God must believe that He exists, and that He proves to be One who rewards those who seek Him. If we look at the first paragraph in Hebrews 11, I believe what we see is the examples of what it looks like when we God proves to reward. I tend to focus on this for a reason, but please let me know your thoughts... 11 Now faith is the certainty of things [a]hoped for, a [b]proof of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old [c]gained approval. 3 By faith we understand that the [d]world has been created by the word of God so that what is seen has not been made out of things that are visible. 4 By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he was attested to be righteous, God testifying [e]about his gifts, and through [f]faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for before he was taken up, he was attested to have been pleasing to God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for the one who comes to God must believe that He exists, and that He proves to be One who rewards those who seek Him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, [g]in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. If we juxtapose this with Jesus and the cursing of the fig tree. This may seem odd to compare. But the fig tree was Israel cursed representatively for not believing in their own messiah. What is AWESOME is what Jesus says in contrast. Mark 11:20-26 20In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!" 22"Have faith in God," Jesus answered. 23"Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins." 26 Matthew 21:18-22 18Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. 20When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. "How did the fig tree wither so quickly?" they asked. 21Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. 22If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." So the connection between Mark 11, Matt 21, and Hebrews 11:6 looks reciprocal, no? Like KNOW GOD AS A PROVER OF REWARDING. HIS HEART IS TO REWARD YOU. WHEN YOU KNOW THIS HEART AND CHARACTER ABOUT HIM...YOU WILL NOT BE LIKE ISREAL. I think this is a little different than looking at whether or not it is intellectual ascent. And gets to more the issue of trust in His character, nudging our focus perhaps away from us to Him, no?

Beautifully stated.

I believe the pretrib rapture because no other arguments hold water for me. I have looked at 15 hours of the best debates. My unique perspective is that Rev 12 woman and child = seals sign seen during the age of grace. The child going up is the church (the body). Since the sign is viewed during the age of grace, it would figure that rapture would be too. If that makes sense.

Great question. I believe this refers to a time nearest His literal physical second coming (in context of verses).