Lanakila

In the country up north where I am from in Illinois we call coke or any carbonated drink "sodie". Of course I quit calling it that as soon as I moved away cause who wants to be teased to death about being a hick. I have lived all over and to tell the truth down here in Virginiiiiiiieeeeeee we only drink sweet tea, and we drink that year round.

This is my favorite story and hubby's too, LOL. I met my hubby at the post office. Actually I was in the Army and so was he, we were both stationed at Schofield Barracks in Hawaii. I had been saved a few months and was involved in the bus ministry. Hubby had just been saved while watching a TV evangelist late at night when he was on duty. Hubby started hanging out in the barracks (he had been a party animal) and the "Jesus guy" in his battalion asked him why. Well my hubby explained what he did that night on duty and this guy says: You got saved. I know this sounds funny but hubby had no idea what he had done. This fellow employee of mine was getting kicked out of the Army for drug use, and said he would go to church with me if I picked him up. So, I skipped my bus route and went to get this guy. He wasn't there, and I woke up everyone in the barracks at 9 am on a Sunday morning (boy were they mad at me). Well, I was mad but just decided to go to church late. I saw these fellows sitting on the steps of the post office, and decided to invite them to church. My hubby happened to be one of those fellows, and got into the car just as the van came to take them to this other church. The guys in the back started to get out, but hubby didn't (He says I was pretty is why,lol). Anyhow, after that he began attending my church, got baptized and started living for the Lord. I was dating someone else and after we broke up, hubby asked me out and the rest is history. (Actually that is a long story too, lol)

Spam is irritating about as irritating as telemarketers calling in the middle of dinner. Irritating people for Jesus does not sound like a good idea IMO.

You may want to look up the definition of drunk CWJ. Drunk is out of control. Jesus was never out of control, but Noah was obviously. Can you get drunk on wine? Obviously yes. How much wine does it take to get drunk? Depends on the person. Most people who are involved in this discussion would never desire or be tempted to get drunk, so saying the wine was alcoholic does not imply that Jesus put tempation in front of the people in fact it sounds like the opposite is what happened. That is your own personal interpretation, by applying scriptures as you would like to prove your point (or the point of the author) Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach sake. If drinking wine were sin, then Paul would not have told Timothy to drink it. Trying to make the alcohol that Jesus and the Apostles drank into grape juice is a far stretch, IMO.

Funny thread, but you ladies need to understand that we don't always speak clearly either and men miss our cues often. My kids have figured me out sorta. The boys tease about it. Most women don't know how to make commands. We make requests and expect the man/kid to just want to do as we requested. Most men/kids don't pick up on this, and women don't even know we are doing it. An example I will give is: I say boy my car needs cleaning, fully expecting my hubby or kids to volunteer and when they don't I wind up frustrated. Or: I say honey, I would love to go out to dinner, expecting him to just make all the preparations, and when he doesn't I am disappointed. We women will say, boy I sure miss going to church, instead of honey will you go to church with me. I am not saying we need to be the spiritual leader in our home, cause the Bible teaches opposite of that, but we do need to speak clearly and consisely to get our point across.

Well, my hubby is a Chaplain and has actually been my pastor so I guess we are spiritually compatible. We talk about spiritual things all the time, and basically agree doctrinally, although our faith is evolving if that were posible, so we may not always be on the same sheet of music. Now musically and worship wise we could not be more different. I love contemporary music, and worship that is more open (we aren't pentacostal) and my hubby has a hard time opening up and worshipping freely in front of those he may not know. He does not go to church much anymore because chapel is downright boring (he does not get to preach often) and he does not feel a part of my church. My hubby is very spiritual and witnesses daily in counseling, so his lack of being feed isn't evident (he feeds himself).

There is also speculation that the 2 prophets are Moses and Elijah. These are the 2 that appeared at the transfiguration. I am not sure, but this seems correct to me.

Character is important especially in the life of the Christian. We must strive to be Godly and like Christ. I cannot see Christ purchasing a lottery ticket. But, I don't see a command against such in scripture only principles that can be applied that way if you like. Christ always lived to please the Father, and I am afraid the rest of us, don't follow too well in that. Does that mean we shouldn't purchase lottery tickets, probably. Does it mean we should condemn others who may "waste" money on such things, I don't think so.

Your definition of legalism is lacking there CWJ. You may want to check out that book. What I am saying is some things are obviously sin, while others like the one we are discussing, aren't so obvious. In fact if it were obvious we wouldn't be discussing it would we. If it were obvious sin (mentioned by name in the Bible) than I would agree with you. I will never say homosexuality or adultery aren't sin. Its the ones we Christians add, that aren't clearly taught that become legalism CWJ. That is why I said if God is silent we should be too and let our own consciences and the Holy Spirit be our guide. I agree that the Holy Spirit guides through God's Word. But there is no scripture that says thou shalt not pertaining to the lottery or gambling. The Biblical definition of legalism is placing certain things against God's Law that God didn't put. Coleman in the book I mentioned calls it fence building. An example is God says in the Bible: Don't put evil things before your eyes (guard your heart in other words). Legalism says throw out your tv, don't go to movie theaters, ect ect. God says don't be a drunkard. Legalism says don't even go where alcohol can be purchased. God says be modest, while legalism says women should not wear pants, or jewelry or makeup ect ect. This is true legalism CWJ and what I am talking about. Has nothing at all to do with salvation except that adding to God's Word causes a church full of lost legalistic people, like the one my hubby pastored.( not all were lost actually, just a small minority)

I didn't quote scripture exactly but instead used the teaching method called paraphrase. Duh. Your scriptures can be used to say that wasting money on anything is blatent sin. The thing is I have the same Holy Spirit living in me helping me interpret scriptures and I just see legalism rearing its ugly head again. Yeah I know you don't like being called that CWJ but if the shoe fits. What I am saying is I recommend highly that you read a book I read about 10 years ago entitled: The Pharisee's guide to total holiness. (Sarcasm intended) This book basically teaches (from the Bible) that legalism is sinful and exactly what the Pharisees did with Jesus. Jesus ate and drank (wine, alcohol by the way) with publicans (robberbarons) and sinners (prostitutes, former demon possessed individuals ect. The Pharisees said he was sinning by doing that ( sin of associating with sinnners and supposed sinful behavior). Jesus didn't sin by doing this and neither does the Christian who happens to take a drink of wine with their friends or buy a lottery ticket ect. Why not pick on the pet sins of most of us, like coveting, gluttony, laziness, ect. Yeah those are boring I know but those are more of a problem than the lottery is for most people.

It also leaves the question as to what Bible was the right Bible before the KJV. The Great Bible and Geneva Bible are each different from each other, and they were used as well as the greek and hebrew manuscripts that were available at the time of its writing. Erasmus Greek NT is the main source behind the NT of the KJV. Erasmus didn't have a copy of Revelation and instead used the Latin Vulgate. You see God didn't preserve one translation perfect and exact, probably because we would worship the Bible instead of the God of the Bible. God in his wisdom allowed man to be the steward of his word, and for centuries the common man didn't have access to it at all. Great Bibles were chained to the pulpits so that they wouldn't be stolen (if you can imagine that). God in that same infinite wisdom has given the responsibility of preaching the gospel to imperfect man. God gives us the power and the command and we are to obey. But you and I know that everyone doesn't for many reasons including fear, racism, selfishness. The world would be reached in a very short time if each one would just reach one, amen.

I don't buy lottery tickets, because I personally think that they are a waste of money. Our family wastes money everyday by paying for cable when there is nothing on tv worth watching, but no one is condemning cable tv here. The Bible does not spell out every sin, but instead teaches principles that we must apply individually to our own lives. The command to not judge your brother or sister is the main one that applies to this issue imho. Yes there are grey areas, because God didn't spell out every sin, so we must be slow to speak and apt to teach. In other words, where the Bible is silent we should be too.

You made some bold statements there Shawneda, and you need to back them up with facts.

Larry Flynt got saved? I didn't hear that. Is this the Larry Flynt from hustler magazine? If it is that is not only great, but amazing. Dr Falwell sued him over a cartoon and they made a movie about it. So, this is so amazing it needs to be broadcast from the mountaintops.

Romans 11:25,26 All Israel shall be saved, amen. This is during the Tribulation, as obviously they aren't saved now, but far from it.

Also, this topic can lead to giving much more credit to the evil one than he is due. Yes satan is alive and well on planet earth still and he is still busy cause his time is short, but our God reigns amen.

But, if we don't do it nobody will. Why wait for a call when we have a command. It is our job. So, you don't take any preachers word for how many they have won to Christ huh? Well, if I do the leading and God does the saving, I can still say I led someone to Christ, can't I? Whatever, we are mincing words for no real reason.

If you knew the history of the Modern Missions Movement you would see this hypercalvisim I am talking about. William Carey the "Father of Modern Missions" wanted to go to India to convert the heathen, he was told "if God wanted the heathen saved, he would do it without you" by a board of Particular Baptists whom he went to get approved for the field. Well, Carey went anyway, without their approval and hundreds if not thousands of Indian People are in heaven today that would not be if Carey would not have went. We are commanded to go (its our job) in the Great Commission. God could have used a donkey, but he chose to use fallible man for some reason to win the world for Christ. ITS OUR JOB!!

Tiger for some reason I think we are agreeing on this that the actual truth lies in the middle between the 2 extremes. The view we hold is called semi-Pelagianism developed by John Cassious a 4th century Augustinian. This believe system only holds the last point of Calvinism the P for Perseverence and the 4 points of Arminianism. Calvinism was actually an answer to Arminianism point by point. In my view Calvinism makes God evil because he "chooses" some to be damned before they are even born. This hypercalvinism point of election I take serious issue with.

What is amazing to think of is that this debate makes no sense in any other language than English (little sense in the English either). In other words, this is a pointless debate, that gets a large portion of English Speaking Christians judged as unholy or perpetrators of evil or whatever, just because they don't happen to agree with you that the KJV floated down from heaven (the translators didn't believe it, you should read the preface). We who read other translations know that the Messiah and the false messiah (satan) are two different men.

You might want to get a little more recent on the sins of America too, Levi. Many of us weren't even born during WW2, and some of us were little kids during Vietnam. For goodness sake, America voted for Clinton after they knew about Monica. I think that is a great sin and recent, but of course it doesn't push your adgenda.

Amen Adstar. God is willing that none should perish, but that ALL would come to repentence.

There is another judgement you missed: The Bema Seat Judgement. This is the judgement for rewards for believers, where works done with the wrong motives will be burned (wood, hay, stubble) and those with pure motives will be rewarded (crowns). In Rev it says, God will wipe away all tears, and I can imagine there will be tears when we see, all. As well as at the judgement of the wicked, when we see the blood on our hands for not telling them (Jeremiah).

Galatians 5:14. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15. If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23. gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Sorry Angels if I am putting words in your mouth but, this is what I assumed you were talking about when you mentioned fruit. This fruit of the Spirit is missing from some posts on this board. CD Angels has been around along time and I love her, cut her some slack please.

Welcome Back Wisdom, you have been sorely missed.