ChristB4us

Sorry about my earlier post because I had to edit it to include the word "not" in it to explain that Paul was "not" referring to himself in 2-4 verses, but to the apostle John, indirectly. As for his thorn, Paul describing it as a "messenger of Satan to buffet him in the flesh" is why I believe he was hearing voices. I really can see why he had prayed for it to be removed, since he was not praying for a healing as if by some wound or because of failing eyesight which is regarded highly as being his thorn in the flesh. We prophesy in part and know in part, but one day we shall know the truth when we see Him face to face. May God cause the increase.

Not really. Consider this line of questioning; when will that day that He comes? When the falling away from the faith has happened, but if so, why say this had to happen first? Is this saying the falling away of the faith will happen that day when He comes? AND will that son of perdition be revealed in that same day as that falling away from the faith for when He comes? And yet scripture explains this more as being two events because it cannot be that day when the son of perdition is revealed and neither can it be that very same day that the falling away from the faith happens. Scripture has that son of perdition as revealed as halfway through the great tribulation and yet Jesus comes at the end of the great tribulation. So if you were to take it literally as is, then how do you apply it when that day when He comes is not to happen until the falling away from the faith happens first and then that son of perdition is revealed? If you give leeway to Him coming at the end of the great tribulation, then you have to consider aligning this saying from Paul with the rest of scriptures as I see Paul speaking of two events. So for me to apply that as Paul speaking of two events and you saying that is a lie, and yet these line of questionings suggest that it cannot be as you apply it to mean. Do not forget the other scriptures which testifies to why Jesus was warning the churches to be ready or else as He will be coming as the Bridegroom first before returning with those raptured saints at the end of the great tribulation to battle the world's armies marching against Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:1-5 where His feet touched down on the Mount of Olives and splits it in two creating the valley of Armageddon. Do note that in Revelation 20:1-6, Satan is already in the pit as defeated and thus also alluding that the world's armies is finished before that resurrection occurs after the great tribulation. That means Jesus is not meeting those saints in the air when He has been on earth defeating Satan and the world's armies. The problem here is that you read one event when Paul is talking about two events, because that is the only way to align what is written with the rest of scriptures. Do reread and continue to read the rest of that prior post for why I say Paul is citing two events.

Not sure how you can say that Paul was "not" referring to himself in the second, third, and fourth verses. The first verse and then afterwards, yeah, but he used a pronoun to defer from himself as well as referring to a man he knew. 2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. But I agree that afterwards, Paul was speaking about himself for why he was given a thorn in the flesh to prevent others from thinking more highly of him than they ought to think because of all those revelations that came from the Lord through him. I believe that thorn in the flesh was him hearing voices in his head as describing it as messengers of Satan to buffet him in the flesh because poor eyesight or an injury would hardly prevent anyone from thinking higher of him than they ought to think but hearing voices...?, that would do it.

Paul was speaking "indirectly" about the apostle John and the Book of Revelations. 2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; So John was in the third Heaven where Jesus has ascended to which is God's throne and Paul saying "heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter," is due to the emphasis about what was written in the Book of Revelation as not to add or subtract from. Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. So this is why I believe Paul was referring to the apostle John and the Book of Revelation in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 and that third heaven being God's throne where Jesus has ascended to as to where He will be receiving us soon as firstfruits at the rapture event for all those abiding in Him by His help and by His grace.

Paul was testifying "indirectly" about the apostle John and the Book of Revelation. It was not Paul that was taken to the third heaven, but John was. 2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Greetings. May God bless you in the knowledge of Jesus Christ soon.

May I suggest a question; the heaven that Enoch & Elijah was taken to may just be referring to the upper atmosphere and not God's Throne. Case being the point are these scripture below. John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. I believe Enoch & Elijah will be the two witnesses in Jerusalem for the first half of the great tribulation. They are being transported through time and space to that place; if there are stops along the way, there is scripture that this could be so. Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. 3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. 4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus. Some say that Moses & Elijah will be the two witnesses but both of those witnesses will die and resurrect after a third day and be raptured halfway through the great tribulation. Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. Since this is written; Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: And Moses had died and was buried, I tend to believe it will be Enoch & Elijah since they had never die died yet and has not inherited the firstfruit of the resurrection yet because they are being transported through space and time to be those two witnesses in Jerusalem. Evidence of another kind of transportation but from one place to another is found here in the N.T. Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea. So there is precedent to believe there is a divine transporting of Enoch & Elijah to Jerusalem to be the two witnesses for the first half of the great tribulation. Of course, Jesus Christ did ascend to God's Throne after His resurrection and not merely into the upper atmosphere.

I know we are to watch all the time but I believe what He says in Mark 13:21-23 is what we are supposed to watch out for and that is not be "sleeping" when apostasy comes les we wind up following the crowd after the supernatural without testing the spirits thus assuming the event to be the Holy Spirit without proving or reproving them with the help of Jesus Christ by the word of God. Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. 34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. So to not be found sleeping and thus awake in watching is not to follow the crowd or chase after the Holy Spirit for a sign when He dwells in us since salvation by believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel since afterwards, the indwelling Holy Spirit is to lead us to keep our eyes on the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, because the Bridegroom is coming soon for the abiding bride.

Psalm 96:9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth. 10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. 11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof. 12 Let the field be joyful, and all that is therein: then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice 13 Before the Lord: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Psalm 27:7 Hear, O Lord, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me. 8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.

Thank you, Sower, for the welcome ! I do suspect someone has been in the home and may have gotten the password and thus the access to the internet to my folks' computer. Or it may be that they cloned the computer like they do phones, I do not know, but there has been evidence of them being in the home at night in spite of the security cameras outside that I had hoped would deter them from such a temptation, but no. Jesus is still Lord and He will take care of me even when they commit identity theft and I am left homeless. I doubt I can figure it out, but if others suffer this delay in typing, one could consider that the internet was created by the military and since the media is controlled by the woke mob, and now targeting conservatives as well as Christians to silence them, this may be an option they are applying. One may find all Christian forums banned from the internet soon. Until then, may God bless the Word of the Lord to have increase in what declining freedom we have left.

Thanks for the welcome, Debp! I am looking to see if the Lord will use others to prune me so I can bear more fruit & not just share what He has pruned from me to others for the Lord to do the same for them.

Amen! Thanks for the welcome. May God bless you as well.

I do clear my web browser every time I step away from the computer as well as in removing all trackers by McAfee if that is what you meant. Otherwise, you may have to explain that to me. May God bless you all.

Could Paul be warning of 2 events where one is the pre great tribulation rapture event by which the falling away from the faith will proceed that coming of the Bridegroom for that abiding bride of Christ to receive to the Marriage Supper held in Heaven and then that revelation of that son perdition midway through the great tribulation which is to proceed His coming as the King of kings at the end of the great tribulation? Paul spoke of the iniquity that will cause that falling away from the faith in that latter days as happening already in his days; with an interjection of the event at the end of the great tribulation in verse 8 before expounding on that iniquity in his day as happening in droves in the latter days before He appears as the Bridegroom. 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Paul goes on to expose that lie by citing the tradition taught of us by reminding believers when they had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel thus signifying that there is no other time that a saved believer will be receiving the Holy Spirit "again" for He will never leave us. 2 Thessalonians 2: 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. Compare this with Pauls' warning below that deviates from the traditions taught of us. 2 Corinthians 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Paul goes on to talk about those saved believers that fell away from the faith in how they are still saved but missed out on the rapture event in how they are still brothers for us to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers by withdrawing from them. 2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;..... 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. Of course some will say that those that fell away were never saved because they were damned as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:12 but yet Paul says this above. The only way the truth can align is to know that those saints and former believers that get left behind will be damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House for being found in iniquity, but thus still in His House. 2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. That is why the rapture event is when God will judge His House first. 1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? Once that door to the Marriage Supper in Heaven is shut, they can never be partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection for why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, thus damned forever as vessels unto dishonor in His House but they are still in His House to be resurrected after the great tribulation. So what a believer builds on that foundation will be judged. 1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Note physical death in verses 16-17 and yet the spirit is saved in verse 15 becase in spite of this prophesied falling away from the faith, He will lose none of all the Father has given Him. John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. But which last day shall it be; as firstfruits of the resurrection or after the great tribulation? This explains the prodigal son in that he spent his first inheritance for wild living and can never get it back, but he is still son. Yet we should run that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily to be ready. Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Anyway, there is indication that Paul is writing about two events from your reference as aligned with other scriptures because obviously Jesus will not come as King of kings right away when the son of perdition reveals himself in that Holy of Holies but at the end of the great tribulation and so the Bridegroom will be coming to judge His House when that falling away from the faith occurs in droves in the latter days which after the rapture event is when the great tribulation comes. That is why Jesus had the apostle John warned the 7 churches to be ready or else be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation which is the direct warning below. Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. Since Asbury Revival and more like it is happening all across America and mayhap the world, is why I expect the Bridegroom will be coming soon to judge His House. Best way to avoid the iniquity is to keep your eyes on the Son in worship. prayer, and fellowship in coming to God the Father because the indwelling Holy Spirit would always keep your focus on the Bridegroom but the spirits of the antichrist whereas antichrist means "instead of Christ" would mislead believers to keep their focus on what they say is the "Holy Spirit" when actually it is the spirits of the antichrist and their visitations in receiving them with signs & lying wonders. John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.... 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last. May God cause the increase.

Thanks. I shall see how the Lord leads. My computer seems to be compromised as the typing is delayed in typing as I type. I have been noticing this today now that I have been cleared to post in this forum and other things that my folks' computer has been compromised way before I had joined the forum like on the McAfee where the VPN is now stuck in securing but never secures. Jesus is still Lord. May God bless you all and grant that the word of the Lord may have free course in this forum towards others as well as for myself.

Okay. May God cause the increase.

Hi Alive, Thanks for the welcome. Okay. I guess I missed that part about the initial two posts being introductory only, although I would think my second post would be considered as informing others where I am in my walk with the Lord in having learned and still open to learn more. Not sure how much introduction is needed other than saying that I am not a pastor nor hold any official post in any church denomination nor do I identify with any church denomination at this time. Was formerly a member of the Covenant Presbyterian Church. Still a believer and thanks to Jesus Christ, a follower of Jesus Christ which I believe is what a disciple of Jesus Christ is supposed to represent rather than his or her church since the church as a whole is to represent Jesus Christ and not just individually. It stands to reason that if the church gets persecuted and most of its members killed, the survivors can rely on Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd in leading them in the way they ought to go. Thanks for informing me more of what the initial two post was to be about. May God bless you.

Thank you George for the welcome. I can only hope in the Lord that He will direct me to be meek as I do rely on Him to minister and not myself. I thank the Lord that I am here in this forum that is not afraid to discuss apostasy by the scriptures that is happening in the churches in these latter days. Scripture cannot go against scripture and so we need His help to see the truth in His words to use the meat of His words to discern good and evil. The discernment I need from the Lord is to know how to approach each member since we all have a different place in our walk in the Lord. 2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. So I agree that when a fair exchange in a discussion becomes an argument, then may the Lord remind both sides Who they should be relying on to cause the increase rather than beating the other for the head to receive. 1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Prayer is needed as we can only prove all things with the Lord's help. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us. For as much as the Lord helped me to see the iniquities so I can lean on Him to help me depart from them, makes me wonder what other iniquities I may be in that I do not know about or able to see my need for His help to depart from? So I am looking forward to the Lord using anyone to help me see any error I may be in so that He may prune me and that I may be more fruitful as a result. John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Thanks again for the warm welcome.

Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ. I hope the Lord is leading me here to edify, correct, and warn as I hope He does for me through others as we grow in His words in the knowledge of Him. I trust Jesus Christ as my personal Good Shepherd & Friend to help me to follow Him as His disciple by testifying of Him in seeking His glory and not serve anything else in His name to seek the glory of the other. 1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.