GymRose

Emily Anne, I think we all grow through different stages and events of life. My story is similar to you, I gave my life at 13 and then married a non christian at 18, I was already off track before meeting him but that took me further away. God was always on my mind and when the hard times came it was God I turned to. I read my Bible from time to time and knew that the ache of my heart was God. I don't believe I turned my back on God, I never said God is a lie or I don't believe, in fact very much the oppisite. When the marriage failed through my ex husbands continuous adultery to many women the first thing I did was go back to church..... Well after a brief period of licking my wounds in private because everyone said the marriage would never work I don't think it is until we get a little older we understand the gravity of our actions and the choices we make. Some people never go through this experience but some of us do but I don't think it is apostasy. I had wondered it myself and then gone, you know what that is just a lie God knew I never turned my back in that same sense. I see what you and I did similar to a relationship in a marriage, I don't know if you go through periods of this in your marriage but with mine from time to time we'll have a week or two when we seem so far apart we don't even feel like a couple. Doesn't happen often but life just gets in the way, the kids have stuff going on and work is busy, our marriage gets forgotten in a sense as we just go through that period of being instead of living our marriage. We might do or say something without thought to each other. It isn't that we're angry with each other, we haven't forgotten we are a couple, we've just let other stuff get in the way of the connection that is within our relationship ...... And then we realize we've been neglecting each other and we talk about it and learn and grow through the proccess. I know with God it is more a one sided thing of us being the sole neglectful one but it is a period of growth and learning. Don't buy into the lie and be hard on yourself you learnt and great growth came out of that.

Thanks for the acceptance of my point Eric, I din't think it was off topic though, but maybe I didn't explain myself well enough to the point of what it is relevent here....... I do that talking too, I think so fast it doesn't come out as well as I would have like, just ask Hubby I was trying to make the point of why we need churches who are accepting and why people are turning to the Emerging church in regards to their feeling not quite accepted in the traditional church. I noticed Eric, that you put mega churches in with Emerging. Do you see the mega churches as Emerging and somewhat false ??? I ask because of what I have been seeing and what I have experieneced in church within recent years that has led to my departure from church walls due to a lack of faith in the doctrine that seems to be changing and a BIG TIME lack of trust in leadership. I'm not going to name names but we have one major one here in Australia and what I see going on in the structure of the denomination as a whole because of this to me is frightening. So I'm really keen to hear as to where others world wide do see mega churches, are they a part of the Emerging church ???

Just read some of those links. Mmmm ..... Maybe I was wrong with what I said earlier that the Emerging Church had good churches and some not so good like most denominations, after reading some of those links I have to wonder what it was I was reading before. Maybe the articles I had read were early ones that were trying to encourage it...... It was some time ago. Emily Anne it was nice to hear about how your life changed. All too often I have seen people come to church and be told to change their ways by leadership and it hasn't been an inward change through relationship with God, they've changed for leadership and then fallen away because it was just to keep leadership happy and not a reall inward change. For instance we had a couple come to church that were in a defacto relationship, as soon as they gave their lives they were pounced on to change. They were told to stop living in sin, he was to move out and they were not to be together until such time as they married. This all occured, they married and then the stress of all the pressure to "get their lives right" blew their marriage apart. The woman I know has not been to church and her children have a very unstable life. I know this because this lady was once married to my cousin who had a daughter with her, it just turned out she walked into my church one day with her defacto family. The other side of this is that the man that she was with in the defacto relationship had got her out of prostitution, I have no idea if she has gone back to it or not but I do know one of her teen daughters is now pregnant and gone off the rails. Had this couple not been forced to take these steps so quickly they would have eventually come to that change through their own conviction and I would dare say even still be in the church. These were not christians who chose to live together, these were people of the world who became christians while living together. This is not the only time I have seen this happen with couples who have given their lives only to see it end the same way. I've also seen it with peoples appearence who are told to change, it's not a matter of relationship with God and they end up falling away never to go back to church. I'm all for people changing their lives but it has to be a natural change, it can't be forced. It's like 2 magnets that you try and put together with the wrong ends, the more force you try and put them together with the harder they repel each other, but if you have the correct ends of the magnet they easily come to gether and bond naturally. Maybe this is partially why people are turning to alternatives. I'm not saying comprimise but accept that we all live differnt lives and accomodate.

Hey Ya Angelique Listen to that gut instinct within you. From the sounds of your post it sounds like you know deep within yourself that something is not right. Definetley weigh every thing against the Bible and what you know of God but also listen closely for the concience He has given you. The more you listen your concience and act accordingly the stronger it will become and you will know for certain to say, this is not right. I believe God gives us dreams and visions but He also gives us discernment and His word to know the difference. One other thing is your animals. How do they react ??? I believe animals are amazingly discerning. A few years ago I had a couple of ladies who cleaned house for me. I'll never forget one day when one of my cats made contact with one of the cleaning ladies for the first time. My cat walked into a room and saw this lady, my cats back went up and the two of them locked eyes, next thing my cat flew at this lady, hissing all the way then vered off and scurried under the lounge. The cat in question has always been skittish but I have never seen a cat react to any person this way and never since. A few weeks later the other cleaner told me she had been placed on child molestation charges, needless to say that one cleaner never came into my home again. My point is the cat saw something in this woman, she saw something unseen by either myself or the other cleaner. A similar thing happend with my dog, he has never been an aggressive animal at all and is so friendly with everyone but on two occassions he has reacted, once to a delivery guy and another time to a guy who asked what we were doing with some copper in our yard. With the guy asking for the copper I saw him coming up the yard and felt nervous by his look so took the dog to the door with me but never expect my dog to react the way he did. He is a very discerning animal. I know in these cases it was people involved but the animals sense something in the spirit that we don't always sense. If your animals are reacting I would take note of that too. My animals do react. My bird will see them as well. They usually don't freak out. My cat will hiss at times. My dog is the one who reacts badly to the dark ones. If the animals don't freak, does that mean what I am seeing is of God? I think that animals sometimes can see - or feel - things that we can't. I wouldn't put too much stock in the animals reaction as to whether they are "good" or "evil". In the Old Testament (Numbers chapter 22) we are told about Balaam. He was a prophet who was used by God, but who didn't give his whole self to serving God. It's an interesting story, but at one point Balaam was on his way to help the enemies of the Israelites. As he rode his donkey along, the "Angel of the LORD" (in the Old Testament when it is written this way it means Jesus) blocked the way. Balaam could not see Him, but the donkey refused to pass. It's a long story, but the point that I am trying to show you is that the animal saw what Balaam couldn't, and even though it was Jesus the donkey would not go past Him. <>< ><> Nathele I would NOT say at all that if the animals don't react it is OK or that it is God, but if they are reacting in a negative way like your cat and dog do I would take serious note of it because animals do see things we don't. My personal opinion is that if you've opened yourself up to something supernaturally in the past and now become a Christian the enemy can use your familiarity with the supernatural to deceive you and I don't believe God would place you in the position of having to decide what is of Him and what isn't, I personally would think this is more of a trick by the enemy. Sorry for any confusion with bringing the animals into it, I just thought it was a valid point to take note of the fact that they are discerning. I was in no way suggesting that you test the spirits in that way, but be mindful of it.

The thing to remember is that there is good and bad in all denominations these days. To me I see the Emerging church like the Pentecostal church in the 1970s and 80s. To the mainstream this lot seems really odd and out there.... I can say that because my uncle and aunt are Pentecostal ministers who were thought were way over the top LOL. Through the 90s there became an acceptance of Pentecostalism and it in itself is seen as mainstream Christianity now. IMHO the Emergant church will become recognised and accepted but the ones that are keeping the truth........ Not like the one that you have been to. A lot of people are going into Home churches or Emergant churches, as well as just staying at home and having prayer and reading with the family or seeking God one on one because they see altered and misleading doctrine. A straying from absolute Biblical truth and egotistical leadership making church more about themselves and legalism than God. And a lot of them are not weak, unlearned christians, the majority I know including myself are people with a deep faith, long time christians who are tired of the Word being watered down and manipulated to fit the leading of the Pastor, tired of performance based worship and the majority I know who are walking out of the church buildings are or were in positions of leadeship. These are people who have said, ENOUGH, we want absolute truth not some mans agenda or to fund his exorbitant lifestyle. I personally think the Emergent or Home churched / Unchurched are very much misunderstood just as Pentecostalism was many years ago. Having said all that though, one does need to be very discerning in ANY church setting these days.

I agree. Something that I do like about the Emergent Church is that it appeals to those who would normally not feel comfortable in a traditional church, such as Punks and other sub-cultures. Church is not a place to go to make people comfortable and have their ears tickled by telling people what they want to hear. Church is to preach Christ and Him crucified. Church is a place where the preacher's responsibility it to preach the truth of the gospel, such as the difference between sin and salvation. If you are a seasoned sinner the sermon should make you squirm, not feel good about just attending. Sorry to spoil the fun, but in my own opinion, people should leave a church meeting feeling humbled, not exalted. People should leave a church meeting wanting to get closer to the God wants to forgive you for your guilt and your burden of being heavy laden down by sin. Church is there to tell you there is no other way you can have eternal rest with the Lord without repenting of your earthly life style and turning to the only way to get the father is through Jesus Christ, who gave His life so you could live. Anything short of that is not good enough. People don't have to go to church to find out how to be a good husband, wife brother sister or a good son or daughter, When you have a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ, all that will come naturally. From what I know the post modern emergent churches are leading people astray by half truths and deception, by offering alternative ways of gaining eternal life.............wrong. It's not about "feeling comfortable" and "having your ears tickled", it's about going somewhere where they feel they will be accepted. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the Christianity that shows up in the media is not the most accepting and loving entity. Regardless of whether or not this portrayal is accurate, this is what they see. Two things, from personal experience, I think are relevant here: 1)From my conversations with people of other subcultures, several of these individuals (if not many) have been hurt by "Churches" and would not set foot in a "traditional church". Is it not a good thing that there are "non-traditional" churches that allow these people to hear the Gospel? 2)A good friend of mine went to a Baptist Church for a period of time. She went regularly, but non one would speak to her. Not even the children. Why? Because she had multiple piercings, as well as several tattoos. So, with that in mind, this is the sense in which I meant "comfortable" in that they feel they can be accepted. Said so well

Oh NO !!! Please don't New Age me ....... Definetley not New Age but I suppose I do think outside the box being somewhat of an eccentric so I may say things in a different way......... Just my uniqueness . OFF TOPIC : About your other post, have you started a thread somewhere on that......... I had a dream the other night that was bizzar but it was about people preaching and it sounding so wrong.......... If you have put it somewhere else I'd love to know where so I can post in it. As I read your post the image of that dream came back so vividly.

By truth I mean keeping the absolute truth of the Bible and the Beliefs, faith etc.......... Teaching Christian truth according to the Bible. Acceptence of uniqueness, I mean we are all created with such diverse personalities. Like you might like a style of music but it doesn't really do much for me or even down to our homes, you might like contemperary where I like oldworldly that sort of thing. I have heard of some churches here (never been to one, so this is hearsay) that don't have worship as in music in their service because alot of men have stated they wouldn't go to church because they feel weirded out about standing there singing..... But their teaching and prayer is grounded in the Bible. Hope that helps clarify.

I agree. Something that I do like about the Emergent Church is that it appeals to those who would normally not feel comfortable in a traditional church, such as Punks and other sub-cultures. Church is not a place to go to make people comfortable and have their ears tickled by telling people what they want to hear. Church is to preach Christ and Him crucified. Church is a place where the preacher's responsibility it to preach the truth of the gospel, such as the difference between sin and salvation. If you are a seasoned sinner the sermon should make you squirm, not feel good about just attending. Sorry to spoil the fun, but in my own opinion, people should leave a church meeting feeling humbled, not exalted. People should leave a church meeting wanting to get closer to the God wants to forgive you for your guilt and your burden of being heavy laden down by sin. Church is there to tell you there is no other way you can have eternal rest with the Lord without repenting of your earthly life style and turning to the only way to get the father is through Jesus Christ, who gave His life so you could live. Anything short of that is not good enough. People don't have to go to church to find out how to be a good husband, wife brother sister or a good son or daughter, When you have a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ, all that will come naturally. From what I know the post modern emergent churches are leading people astray by half truths and deception, by offering alternative ways of gaining eternal life.............wrong. You are absolutley right Eric but people are not going to go where they feel like dirt or can't relate in anyway either. There has to be a balance between true acceptence of ones uniqueness and truth.

It's sad to say that can be the case with any denomination. It's good that you were discerning enough to read the signs though and can act accordingly.

I've moved away from the "tradtional" church setting in the last 12 months because of the damage my family and I have encountered over the last 5 years and the damage we have seen done to many others. I've been a christian for 22 years and mainsteam tradition isn't at all what I am seeing these days with the new up and coming leadership. I'm talking across the board, not anyone denomination. As I came out of the traditional church I read alot about the emerging church and what I read was not about embracing all beliefs but taking Christianity back to it's roots and most of the emerging church are part of the home church movement, but again this is not about taking beliefs from anywhere but the Bible. This church could be like an off shot but still calling themselves an emerging church. Like we have 3 kinds of Baptist Churches here we have a very leaglistic and certainly not mainstream down the road, we have your old mainstream and then there is also the Baptist churches that have become more Pentecostal than the Baptist of old. Even in mainsteam denominations there are variants of belief. Absolutley !!! Why do we have denominations ???........ Because they appeal to certain beliefs and lifestyle. What is so different about a church who embraces the uniqueness of a particular way of life as long as it does not go against the Bible ??? God created those people to be who they are. I've sat in a mainstream church as I bet many have and the preacher says, "We want to love the tattooed bikies, we want to love the prostitutes and support them and help them turn their lives around etc " But when I've heard that I've looked around the church and thought, nup not tattooed bikies here, I wonder why ??? Because the mainstream, somewhat conservative church has no idea about the lifestyle. It can be said they will be accepted and not judged but really it is not the case because they are told so quick to change their lifestyle. We need churches that cater to different needs, personalities etc.

I have to say from watching this thread evolve from the start I have found it quite an educational experience........... Both in content and debate. Very interesting

I wasn't aware that the NWT was available outside of the JWs apart from if someone got one for you.... It isn't available in stores is it??? I've never seen one outside of the JWs in Australia anyways, other than the one my ex mother in law gave me which I destroyed when I can back to church after my ex husband and I divorced. I didn't think they were easily attainable. I understand your points on this about false doctrine Butero but general people know what is from the Christian church and what is not because of where they are or are not available.

Couldn't agree more. Tis like Genealogy, the more sources the better.

I completely agree with you and I too have been told how dangerous it is for me to seek and question some things that I am, however I know that God knows my heart and knows that I seek only to find the truth of Him. Is it possible though that your beliefs about the KJV are something that God has shown you for your faith...... Trying to think of a good example here OK... Like fasting, we are all to fast but it is a matter between ourselves and God. I know some people who have fasted at specific times because they are at a place in their life where God has instructed them to do so but if I did just because they were it wouldn't mean anything to me and it would be like pushing a boulder up a hill for me because it is not my call for that at that time. Is it possible that you have such a belief because you have had a specific revelation for your life and God wants you to hold onto the KJV because He has spoken to you clearly through it ??? Is it possible that if we all had nothing but the KJV some people would really struggle in massive ways to keep their faith ??? I mean no disrespect to your beliefs at all, I'm just posing the question as it came to mind. I've also asked the question lately........ Are we all meant to read...... What of all the people in this world who really are not readers either by disability, uneducated or even those who just plain hate reading because it is not a part of their nature ??? Just throwing that out there.

This is exactly where I was coming from earlier in this thread when I left my last comment about the political era of the time. As with all other times including the Council of Nicea. It would seem that you and I are on a similar page with the questions regarding this subjuct however you have chosen to say the KJV is absolute where as I am still questioning my way through the history of the church and the Bible and therefore would not say any translation is beter than another except in the format of which one is easier for a person to read seeing that we are al so different and unique.

I thought that was the case but all the Dread sites I just visited really......... Dread unwashed Dreads........ LOL Apparently from what I just read the best way to do it IS wash your hair.

I just learnt something today from this post, I had no idea of the Rastafarians so I Googled it......... Interesting. Just as interesting is the number of "How To" sites for the perfect Dreads Nebula has some really good points with symbolism. There does seem to be some religious significance attched in certain circles however from my personal point of view, when I see someone with Dreads I don't think of any religious affiliation, I think cool there's someone who digs the Jamaican way and generally hear Jamaican music in my head (little spacey, I know, but hey I'm honest). Would I get Dreads... No, only because I know they wouldn't suit me. Do I like the look, I love the look on the right person, especially when girls do them with different colours and tie them up in certain ways. I think, I wish I could do that. But the question remains. Is it right for you ??? I don't think the Bible can truely answer this one way or the other but what can is your conscience. I personally don't see how anybody elses hair can make anyone stumble in this day and age, we have a totally different culture to Biblical times however if God says no within your spirit then you need to go with that.

WOW..... I had no sooner posted that last post and a news story came on SkyNews talking about the similarities between Obama and JFK.

I'm sitting here in Australia with great anticipation to see what happens over there. Our elections here last year were really tough and it is going to be interesting to see the outcome because whoever you guys elect does have an effect Worldwide (no pressure to GET IT RIGHT )......... Personally since hearing Hillary Clinton was running I've been hoping she'll succeed. But as I can't vote I'll continue to sit on the edge of my seat and chew my nails.

Tis quite an amazing little piece. I've always been a doer in church but in the last 6 months have taken time away from the church walls to seek God for direction in many areas. It is amazing that outside of the church walls I have sought Him with more passion than within the walls because the programs keep you so busy. I'm not saying everyone should take time out of church, this is my personal journey. For 2 years I have made the decision to make my life less cluttered but for the last 2 years at the begining of the year a new program or change has come into play which has got me so excited that I get involved and find myself busier than ever........ Not this year, I've managed to smell the roses. I have to say though that even though I have become somewhat of a recluse and only have our family and our family business to contend with life can still get cluttered. It's a nice reminder to take the time to seek and listen. Thank you 4given1

I was re baptized..... I was first baptized when I was 13 at the age of 16-17 I walked away from church completey and not long after married a man with no christian faith. Several years after we divorced (divorced at 21) I spoke to my Pastor about it one day and he agreed to baptize me once again at age 25. It was in diffent churches and different denominations but I felt the need to publically declare that God was my all and that I was turning from my old life. Something I felt called to do because I had completely turned my back on God. I think it is a personal decision, enjoy the steps of faith you take, don't be nervous.

Hey Ya Eric That is classic Thanks for the welcome back. It's nice to be back here.

I love the word eclectic, it is a word full of colour, diversity and passion in my minds eye, taking amazing elements to compliment each other. Well said.