Elisabeth

Yes, and it was horrible because it was always done in the heat of emotion. We rarely received disciple where the punishment fit the crime. Instead, we were "spanked" with tree switches or paddles or bread boards. The problem with this kind of discipline is that kids rarely learn from it. I mean, we weren't spanked once and then never did anything bad again. However, one time I was grounded for two weeks -- that got my attention and I never did anything to warrant that again. We don't use physical punishment for adults, so why do we use it for children? I don't believe the current generation is in trouble because we don't spank them -- I believe they are in trouble because parents make their lives too easy -- they give them everything they want and they don't teach them responsibility or what it means to have to earn (or work) for what you have.

I have not been on this board for quite a while, due to other things going on in my life but I'm glad to be back. I have a question, wanting to know if anyone has experience with this particular topic: I have been in a number of small groups over the years. They have nearly always been a blessing, and such an important part of my spiritual life. However, it is easy for these groups to lean more towards the social sometimes. There isn't anything wrong with spending social time, but I personally believe that Christians need to take advantage of time spent with other Christians by discussing and learning about their faith, beliefs, struggles, questions, the Bible, God, etc, etc, etc. Has anyone ever started a small group (home group life group whatever you want to call it), that is more of a "Christian support group?" In other words, you take the premise and model of a support group (discussing a current issue/problem/struggle) and you combine it with your faith life. Someone doesn't lead as much as someone moderates or facilitates. Has anyone ever run a small group under the true support group model -- instead of studying something specific, everyone discusses and supports each other through current struggles? I'm asking because I would love to start a group like this, I've just never seen or heard of one. Thank you and God bless you.

If God is calling you to it, He will see you through it. If you really feel called to this, I think that is an awesome and worthy opportunity to feed yourself and glorify God! God's blessings on you!

Girlfriend: I am so glad you are getting support and prayers. To everyone else: I found out from a friend, who works for workforce development (the unemployment folks) in our state, that if a spouse has to leave or lose a job, as a result of leaving an abusive marriage, unemployment benefits will kick in. I don't know if every state has that law, but I thought that was pretty cool -- and important for people to know. Just remember how precious you are to Jesus.

Pax, Thank you. I'm sorry that you had to experience an annulment. Grace and peace to you.

If you look back at some of what I previously asked about annulment, I wasn't asking about people who were married in Vegas. I think we all know that the RCC is not granting annulments in those situations. I specifically asked about people who were both Catholic, who were married in the RCC, and who raised their children in the RCC -- and THEN got an annulment. I've seen that happen more than once, and I've seen adult children who are essentially estranged from one parent -- because that parent got an annulment, primarily so they could selfishly remarry in the Catholic Church. How is that Christ-like? One parent essentially sends a message to their children that their family was a sham. And also sends an incredibly confusing message about their Church. I'm sorry, but asking for us to define marriage is like Bill Clinton asking for the definition of "is." Many of us here are not trying to bash the RCC, we are trying to understand it. Fiosh has done an excellent job of providing real and honest answers. She is not defensive or patronizing. Those of us who are not Catholic may not necessarily agree, but at least we are learning from her. Thank you and God bless you.

I think it's safe to say that some of us simply don't agree with the RCC on this one. I think my concern (this is just my own opinion) isn't so much the lack of Scriptural support for annulment, but rather my belief that it contradicts Scripture. Whether we agree or not, Jesus is still Lord and Savior of all.

I'm with Ayin Jade. We have asked for Biblical justification for annulments. I would be curious to know when annulments were started by RCC church leaders ... I'm guessing it did not exist at the time of Henry VIII or he could have gone that route ... As far as the question about what constitutes a marriage, and who joins them: The Bible mentions the word marriage or married well over 100 times; the word husband over 100 times; the word wife over 300 times; the word widow over 100 times; the word divorce over 30 times. Jesus spoke of marriage and divorce. This is not something that is hard to define. It's very clear in the OT and NT that marriage was the "standard" while divorce (or a subsequent annulment) is not part of God's order. Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Luke 16:18 I don't understand how any church leader (in any church) has the right to supersede that Scripture. Those are my questions/thoughts on this. Thanks again.

My simple understanding of it is that by the best evidence that can be known the Church feels that God never "blessed" the marriage in the first place. It was never a union brought together by God. In other words, God was absent from the formula, and If God was not part of the beginning then it was never a marriage in the first place, more like a long spell of fornication. ( was that too blunt) God Bless, K.D. Isn't that the same basic argument that people use to justify abortion? One could say that God certainly was absent from a one-night stand ... does that mean the resulting child was not from Him? Could not one apply that same kind of logic to anything in life that is a "problem" or "inconvenient?" Isn't that exactly how Satan works? "Did God REALLY mean for you to be married to that person?" So you are saying that a couple can take the vow of marriage in the RCC, they raise their children in the RCC, they behave as husband and wife for years ... but at some point later in life, one or both of them, and the RCC decides that marriage was never valid? To me, that is an insult to God. Please let us know if there is anything Scriptural to support the RCC's position. Thank you.

This topic came up today at lunch today. I'm sorry if this has already been addressed here -- I don't believe it has. Under what conditions may a marriage be annulled? What is the purpose of an annulment, and when can it be granted? For example, Ted Kennedy had his first marriage annuled (I think, I hope I am not stating something incorrectly here). I realize this is a church, not a civil issue, but I ask this question because many of us who are not of the RCC have a hard time understanding how someone who was married for many years and had children, can have their marriage "wiped away." I've seen the negative emotional consequences this has had on children whose parents were divorced and then one of the parents sought an annulment. By the way, Fiosh, I really respect how you have handled this thread.

Sure, but someones mouth filled with germs is still going to be placed on the cup. Then the next person is going to put their mouth on the cup and on for 300 people. It isn't the contents one is worried about, but rather the germs from ones mouth that will be on the edge of the cup. I personally would drink the precious blood of Christ, but if I had a cold I wouldn't out of respect for others. I wouldn't want them to get sick. A Catholic isn't obligated to drink the precious blood of Christ and essentially one is receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist. The parish I belong to only offers the precious blood to all the lay people during two masses a year. Easter, and Christmas. However the Eucharist is offered at each mass. Some parishes will offer both at each mass. If you truly believe you are drinking the blood of Christ...wouldn't your faith prevent you from becoming sick? If you truly believe the blood of Christ is in that cup...wouldn't His blood kill those germs? That's why I raised this question. If it were truly the blood of Christ, and if your heart truly was aligned with the Lord when you participated in Communion, then what would there be to fear? In terms of germs, etc. And if that were truly a concern, then why doesn't the RCC use a different method of serving the wine? I am personally having a difficult time appreciating why someone would take the bread (body) but not the wine (blood) if our Lord instructed us to do so.

This question is in regards to the Eucharist. I have been to many a Catholic Mass, and I have observed that many people take the wafer, but they do not take the cup. When I inquired about this, my Catholic friends told me that some choose not to drink the wine, since a common cup is used, because of health reasons -- getting a germ from someone else. My question is: If Catholics really believe that the bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Jesus, then wouldn't that be the most purest, safest thing to drink? Thank you.

Hello friend, I agree with what others have said. I have been around the mental health community for over 10 years as a family member and have learned a lot about meds, counseling, etc. As with any prescription medicine, your doctor needs to know what you are doing. Antidepressants are different than other meds in that they work differently on different individuals. In other words, you could give a 65 year old man, and a 25 year old woman the same medicine for pneumonia and the doctors can predict what the outcome will be. It is not the same for psychiatric meds (or any med that involves the brain). My uncle had been on a blood pressure med that had an antidepressant in it. He stopped taking the bp med and he plunged into a suicidal state b/c his body had become so used to the anti-depressant. I say "Praise the Lord" that you feel strong enough to go on without these meds and my prayer is that you can live without them! But just be careful as you do this. Tell your Christian friends what is going on as well so they can "look out for you" as the Body of Christ is called to do.

Dear Tama, I am so very sorry for your suffering. I have a situation that is not identical, but similar. It is so very hard, as you said, because the outside world can see physical abuse, but not the emotional and verbal abuse we suffer. Your post has blessed me. Thank you for being honest and sharing. I have spent the last few years feeling like a prisoner; feeling perpetually confused, and yet knowing that our God is not a God of confusion; feeling like I could/should do something different; feeling like if I lived better as a Christian, I could minister to my husband and change our situation; reading the Word about divorce being wrong; worrying about how everyone else would respond. We have been to five Christian counselors in 10 years, and things are worse now than ever before -- for the same reasons you said -- my husband takes no responsibility for his own behavior. He takes one step forward and five steps back. Tama, please know this: You are not alone. Jesus knows your agony. You have many Sisters-in-Christ in the same situation as yours. Our struggles are not in vain, God has a plan. Stay in the Word, keep praying, surround yourself with supportive Christians. Grace and peace to you.