dakota190

ladyc, i was not refering to what you were saying. i was speaking of those that were advocating the legalization of drugs. i know first hand about the horror or drug abuse and addiction. for example the statement of how useful marijuana could be. what alot of smoke and mirrors they are exerting themselves using in order to justify a useless platform. rope, for crying out loud. hemp was used for making rope for years, if i remember my history correctly that particular hemp was not overly useful for smoking, for the purpose of getting a buzz. does anyone here think, that if making rope from hemp was necessary and there was a profit in hemp for rope, that we would not still be making rope from it? get real!! if anyone reads my post, they will plainly see where i am coming from and where i stand in relation to legalizing any plant, herb, clod of dirt, beach sand, or any substance, manmade or otherwise, that is used or known primarily for getting high. i am against it. no matter what the argument or reasoning. my question stands, why would a christian want to stand for the legalization of marijuana? yes, i saw the answer given to my original question. not good enough. not by the width of any galaxy. i asked quite a few more questions as it relates to the legalization of marijuana, but eliyahuw you ignored those, why? never mind, don't bother. i have read a few of your posts arguing for the legalization of drugs. how you think it is a victimless crime. you do not understand what you are talking about. you don't understand the issues, IT IS NOT A VICTIMLESS CRIME. what it is, is a tragedy. what really disgusts me is that you care so little for others. i am not familiar with you so i have never noticed whether you list yourself as a christian or not. i assume at this point that you are not. i don't say that lightly or to be insulting. just that as a christian we have certain duties or as children of God and followers of Jesus, there are common traits that i am not discerning in you. after this many pages of debate and your lack of being able or refusing to see the truth of what you are endorsing, i will leave it to others to debate you further. if you are not seeing your position any differently at this point of debate and refutation. then you are ignoring the facts or just aguing just for the sake of arguing. LADYC, i am in agreement with you. i was the meth addict that destroyed and damaged all that i touched for about 9 years, before i was saved through prayer. i wish i could express to you sufficiently how i grieve for you or anyone that is caught up in any kind of a relationship that is tied to an addict, especially a meth addict. i grieve for you as family of one and i grieve for the addict. he is in a hell of unimaginable horror as are you. i pray God will intervene in your lives before they are destroyed. if i can offer any advice please feel free to ask. i will post openly and to the glory of God's eternal forgiveness and salvation.

after you all finish playing with your smoke and mirrors, and i truly mean this with a lot of respect and love and fear for some of you and your friends. someone send me #6. i am one off the 6% of meth (and a host of other drugs) addicts that is staying clean. by the grace of God. "he whom the son makes free is free indeed. i was a terrible methamphetimine addict for about 9 years. so i am not talking theoretically and i don't need your statistics. i have lost a career, a family, and a private business, to drug usage. by the grace of God i never served a day. before i go on you need to know that marijuana is part and parcel of the drug world. where you find one you will generally find the other. not always,. but generally. if not for my widowed mother at the time i would have been living under a bush in the streets and starving. i managed to work usually, had to change jobs a lot, but i generally made enough to buy my drugs. of course i couldn't pay any of my other bills. and as my addiction progressed, i would have fought any all of your friends, in a heart beat, for nothing. if someone wants the whole story i will be glad to sit down and post it. it is ONE of my testimonies of a gracious Lord, and if i thought i could get away with it i would probably have stolen you blind. depending on how i felt about you. it is an ugly story and some need to hear it, obviously. i have one question for some of you. why would a christian want to make marijuana legal for the general public. why does a christian want the ability to get high with some of their lost friends.? that will not save your friends, they will drag you down before you ever pull them up. why would someone that wants to or claims to be living for the Lord care about marijuana being legal so the unsaved could get high. if somone is stoned can he effectively be witnessed to? can he really make a heartfelt decision for the Lord? will he? the laws of man as they concern this, are of man. God's law has already addressed this under the wine and hard liquor proverbs, and is several places otherwise. let me know if anyone wants the whole and entirely relevant testimony of a healed drug addict. one of the 6% your brother in Christ! Dan Shamrock

let me answer this from the perspective of a former drug addict. it would be insane to legalize marijuana. people that get high, whether it is on pot, or alcohol or crank or whatever, are not responsible. they are not going to sit at their own homes and get high and not drive a vehicle. they are not going to be careful to not get too high to care for their children properly. they are not going to not get high at work, for the most part. i worked in construction for years and i saw a lot of drug abuse on the job by various members of the various trades. i abused drugs myself at work. many are not going to get up in the morning and go to work, they are too tired from partying the night before and in many cases have not even been to bed when the sun comes up. or they decide they would just rather get high and stay home. there by impacting our communities financially by the loss of income to the individual and by the loss of man hours to the businesses that employ them and by the money it will take to subsidize them in food stamps and rent and utility assistance, and all other fundings needed to keep their family (in many instances the addicts are in home parents) afloat and off of the streets and out of the shelters and to keep their children safe and in school. (as bad as public schools are) not to mention the loss of tax dollars to the community if that drug usage causes a small business to close its' doors. making it legal is not going to control marijuana any more than alcohol is controled by the fact it is legal. it is not kept out of the hands of minors by it being legal and it's sales restricted to legal aged adults. people still die at the hands of drunk (and/or stoned) everyday all over the country and i dare say the world. what benefits do we receive from the tax on liquor. does it even cover the cost of alcohol addiction in this country. does it cover the damage done to the families and the children of addicts and abusers. the trips to rehab, the cause of financial ruin of some people. what are the stats as it relates to the level of homeless living in shelters and under bushes? and some will agrue this point, but being high does affect the moral judgement of the individual. i guarantee it. this topic is far more complicated than it appears on the surface and i have only covered a few of the consequences. as for the benefit of medical marijuana, how can you legalize one and not the other so the medical need may be addressed? i don't know. does the benefit to one over ride the detriment to the other? i can't determine that either. i will not attempt to stand in the place of someone on chemo or their families. are the groups that endorse the legalization of medical marijuana really care about those they claim would benefit from its' legalization or are they just attempting to get a foot in the door. a door i feel strongly that we must keep closed. i am not being an alarmist. i have seen and/or experienced all of these things in my time as an addict before God reclaimed me.

i watched what i could of the debate on the internet. i am glad ray and kirk did what they did. i wouldn't have the nerve, and i don't know what God put into their hearts about doing this thing. i am sure people got many different things out of the broadcast. what i saw was the typical lies and misconstruing the scripture by people trying to disprove the truth of it. i saw an athiest attempt to disprove the bible by proof texting. taking a verse out of context and trying to prevent any debate on that verse by shouting down the other debater, in an attempt to say the bible says this or that, does it not, and then demanding of the other debater does it not? trying to prove a lie with the truth. then acting like they have proven their point. wrong. i am sure the some athiests are claiming victory today, but remember, God's word does not come back void, so where is their victory? what i saw made the athiests look ignorant, i thought. i can't say how someone that was on the fence about christianity or the gospel might feel or think. i do know that God plants the desire in the heart of the believer when he draws them to himself, so i know many saw what the Lord had laid on their hearts and what God had opened their eyes to see. that is a good thing. Praise God on his throne, his plan is always above our thinking.

now there is a scab you don't want to pick at!!! i don't want to even be in the same county with my ex-s family and i live a couple of states away. "all my exes live in texas, and that is why i hang my hat in tennessee." (well not actually texas, but florida doesn't fit into the song)

i would accept the alien invasion thing before i would accept the refrain of how mean old george w. stole the election from the ever capable al gore. no matter how many times they counted and recounted the votes, more that the law requires by the way, they still showed that george w. won. with that REALITY in hand, we can only speculate how gore or anyone else would have handled iraq with the same "intelligence" that w. received. it is easy to sit on the sidelines and tell everyone "i would have done it this way or that. or i would never have done that." so lets move on shall we??? with that said, i work midnights a couple of nights a week and i am mobile part of that time and i usually have the radio on this all night flake show. on this show are people that call themselves "ufologists" and talk incessantly about how they have been abducted and how you can draw aliens to yourself with attitude and desire. talk about familiar spirits. there are people that claim to be time travelers and as having the ability to travel or see into other dimensions and such. believe it or not there was even a guy that called one night that was too wierd for them and they cut him off. my question after this is to think that people laugh at christians and mock how we could believe in God whom we can't see, yet they have nothing to say about wierd beliefs and claims from people like this that live and work in so called mainstream america. when God says he will send a strong delusion for some people to believe a lie. i think it is already here for some. Praise God that he has given me the faith and heart and mind to believe in him.

i'm not saying that God has removed himself from our society, and i am not saying that God is not here every second for the believer or that he does not still want everyone saved. i am saying that as America, as a country, continues to turn their back on God, and turns to other gods and gospels, that God is removing his hand of divine protection that has been covering America. as our country pursues a more hostile course towards the people and things of God, he will allow more and more evil to afflict the country. it is the govt. and the people of America that are trying to remove any and everything that stands for Godly principles. which this country was founded upon. as our leaders embrace more hedonistic ways and refuse to "remove the high places" America, as a people becomes more confused and society continues to sink further into it's depravity, God must judge us as a country. as someone once said, "if God does not judge America, he owes sodom and gomorrah an apology." as God is rightous, he must judge this country. i feel that it is the church in America that has preserved it this long, but as they (secular America) continue to fight the church, God will act. he will protect his people and his future bride. i choose to not be one of those people that feels it is the end times therefore it is God's will and i can do nothing, and stand by and watch evil take over and dominate this country. i will fight to the best that i can, until God takes action and there is nothing left to fight for. although i do believe we are in the endtimes and prophecy is now current events. God is faithful and as he has done in the past he will remove and protect the rightous prior to and during any acts he takes against evil. as he protected noah and his family when he destroyed all of the peoples of the earth in the flood, and as he did when he sent angels to remove lot and his family from sodom prior to his judgement, he will protect his people when he sends judgement on the evil. evil is a stench in the nostrils of God he cannot condone or tolerate it. remember the angels told lot they could not do what God had sent them to do until he and his family were out of the city, and they were telling him they had to hurry. but he must act in judgement. in his time and in his way, but his patience will run out. i hope this clarifies my stance somewhat.

it was never mine to give and besides you did not need it. Praise God in all of his Glory!

by the way i should have pointed out just for the sake of clarity. i am allowed to read at work and reading the bible is not a problem for any of them. i have large blocks of time where i am minimally engaged in my required job performances. the bible study session also occured during a block of time that was not crucial in job reauirements, but did overstep some minor time requirement of the evening and would not have been within the "do what you are paid to do at all relevant points in time" requirement of honesty in christianity. for that i did feel guilty at the time. but i was so enthralled in what was happening spiritually and what i felt was the presence of God in this study that i was willing to take the risk of getting into trouble at the time. i offer no apologies!!! although if i remember correctly i did pray about not doing all i should have for my job at the time of the bible study. i felt the urging of the Holy Spirit was more important. i don't think the Lord thought less of me that night. this answer may do more to confuse than it does to answer your question, but there will be times when you will have to decide on the spot, in a specific circumstance and for certain reasons, to what degree you will give your spirit reign.

angels4u, please, feel free to forward this to everyone you wish. i borrowed (in a christian way of course) this from another to post here. i felt the need to share it also.

i have found that in most cases being a christian in the workplace has not been a major problem for me. i let people know where i stand in relation to my faith, conservative christian. along the line i let them know that i am always open for a discussion if they desire it. i don't let it interfere with my job, i will tell them it will have to be off of the clock or i will try to keep it brief if the topic will allow it, with an option for further discussion later over the phone or at my home and i will invite them to attend the same church i do, so they can hear it for themselves. i discuss an issue, but avoid arguing at all costs. it is counterproductive to witnessing and it draws others into a small discussion. others that do not wish to be a part of the discussion or topic. i try to not be in the area when the dirty jokes are told, or i walk away, or if that isn't possible in the time it took for them to inflict the dirty joke or topic. i don't laugh, i politely tell them i don't find dirty jokes or nasty humor funny anymore. that if something is really funny or if a comedienne is really talented, he doesn't have to be nasty. funny is funny. i am fortunate in the place that i work. although it is a plant and i work midnights with an extremely small shift we have ample time for discussions. i am an at work friend with some of them and some of those profess to be christians, i am a contract employee and not a full time company employee so i am extremely vulnerable. the will of God is always dominant. i read my bible on shift and one night while i was in their work area, a 3+ hour bible study spontaneously began with a question posed by one of the company shift workers. i was totally surprised when they both pulled their bibles from their daybags and off we went. i was able to even get my bible after a time. i was scared to death that if i left the room, it would break the momentum, but God in all of his glory did not let it happen. several conversations of such a nature has occured since on smaller scales, but i let God be the guide.

last year i lost our cell phone while my wife and i were shopping for furniture. it had been in my pocket and i was sitting in this chair and on that couch. we did not realize it was lost until late that night and had no idea which store we had lost it in or if it was even in one of the stores. at the time it was the only phone we had. i ran back to the stores to check and the ones i got to were closed. i just knew someone was on the phone to china at that time. i went to a payphone and called the phone and hoped someone would answer, they did not. well i figured that after church the next day (sunday) we would go immediately to the stores and hope the staff had found our phone. when we walked into church sunday morning, our closest friends handed us our phone. it seems one of the young women working in the store attends the same church and when she looked into the directory of the phone to try to return it, she saw the pastors name and number in the directory. she took it to the church the next day and asked the asst. pastor is he knew who we were, he did and he gave it to our friends that sit with us in service. what a blessing. out of all of the people in the city to find the phone, and out of all of the churches in the area she could have attended, and the fact the store is all of the way across the town from the church and this particular young lady worked in that exact store. call it what you want. i called it a blessing, and i know God is the God of small things as well as the large things.

that is not the point at all. if you follow the progression of events that we as americans and as christian americans, allowed to occur in the lives of our youth. the falling away that took place. it is as God removes his hand from over this country which was founded on faith in God. no matter how the revisionists want to rewrite our history, this country was founded on God and his principles. we did not require everyone to be christian, but we did not allow our faith to be denied to us or our descendents as far as we could see, either. removing prayer from the schools was only one of the opening moves against us. it has progressed to a far worse point now. anything christian is considered bad and anything ANYONE else wants is considered good, especially if it is anti-christian. you can find this in biblical prophecy. in the end times, what is good will be considered evil and what is evil will be considered good. buckthesystem, please tell me where it blamed the children for what has happened.

hupo, here is a thought that occured to me. as a young believer there were a few older or more mature believers in the church i attended. i would possibly choose to emulate them in their walk with the Lord, as i perceived their walk to be. the problem became that as i got older and realized these men had feet of clay and they did not walk as i thought they should have. (not that anyone could have) i lost faith in them and the church. i came to consider them both to be frauds. and i left. what only now occurs to me is that as a young believer i didn't know how to walk with the Lord and no one ever told me that information could be found in the bible if i would only study it. although i did not know how to walk the walk, i had an opinion about how the church leaders should conduct themselves. as well as some of the older folks that i considered to be just a little too selfrightous. what a pompous jerk! today i realize as i get older and i hope i am growing more mature in my walk with the Lord. we all have feet of clay. none of us can walk the walk satisfactorily. that is why Jesus came to give his life for us on the cross. we have mercy from the Lord. now if we could only have mercy from each other. we could stop trying to hold everyone else to an image that does not exist and a standard that we ourselves cannot achieve. at which point we could perhaps be more helpful to one another in our daily walks. we should emulate Jesus as close as we possibly can. you can even try to emulate Paul if you wish. but please do the older members of the faith and yourselves a favor and don't put anyone on a pedestal and make them responsible for living up to an image that they don't even know exists, and cannot attain to. it could be a stumbling block for the both of you. (i am using "you" in a generic way and it is not aimed at anyone in particular)

WOW, WHAT A WAKEUP! Dear God: Why didn't you save the school children at ?. .. Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96 Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97 Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97 West Paducah, Kentucky 12/1/97 Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97 Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98 Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98 Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98 Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98 Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98 Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99 Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99 Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99 Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99 Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99 Santee, California 3/ 5/01 El Cajon, California 3/22/01 Blacksburg, VA 4/16/07 ? and many more... Sincerely, Concerned Student ----------------------------------------------------- Reply: Dear Concerned Student: Sorry, I am not allowed in schools. Sincerely, God -------------------- -------------------------------------- How did this get started?... ----------------- Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained She didn't want any prayer in our schools and we said, OK. ------------------ Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible that says "Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, And love your neighbors as yourself," And we said, OK... ----------------- Dr. Benjamin Spock said We shouldn't spank our children When they misbehaved Because their little personalities Would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem. And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't spank them anymore.. ------------------ Then someone said Teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued. And we accepted their reasoning... ------------------ Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said, that's a grand idea. ------------------ Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys And they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school. And we said, that's another great idea... ------------------ Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs. And we said, it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President, does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good.... ------------------ And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them available on the Internet. And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech.... ------------------ And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes... And we said, it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect and nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead. ------------------ Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, classmates or even themselves. ------------------ Undoubtedly, if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it out. I'm sure it has a great deal to do with... "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW"

i couldn't fit my answers into the boundaries of the poll. so i just wanted to say. i don't see where the U.S. is the MOST sinful, but it seems living here that we have become the most blatant and offensive. in many countries people with deviate desires and ways of life still hide and try to control their exposure to the light of the knowledge of the world. it seems in America, the society that we see the most often portrayed on the news and in movies and lifestyles held up before our kids by movie and music stars (???) is so hedonistic that the more deviant and vile the activity the people desire the more they are driven to shove it in our faces and dare us to say anything about it. are we more sinful? i doubt it. is our society more wretched in its deviancy? i believe so. do we deserve to be punished more than other nations? sometimes i think so, because we have fallen much faster from a greater height with little fight. HOWEVER, we don't seem as base as some countries in other ways, so we may be no more deserving of punishment for our sins than they, but we definitely do not deserve a free pass. in responding to the original questions my reply may seem alittle out of context with where you have taken the discussion, but i wanted to add this.

this is from the "california catholic daily" it is for your information and possible discussion, only!! in all fairness, and so i am not labeled as a hater, again. i want to point out that on the site that i copied this from so i could share it as a condition of the world as it is spinning into the final days of our history, were catholics. they were blasting the people in and behind this ritual. as i have stated before i don't know much about the catholic faith so i am depending on others to point the way. Published: April 24, 2007

Exactly what I'm saying! You & I seem to think a lot alike, Mama Swordy. Wow. Now back to the rest of you guys that have made negative comments about TBN. I have some Scripture to back this up. Like I said before, you shouldn't come against His anointed. Ps.105:15 "Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm." This includes gossip & bad mouthing. Here is some more Scriptue. Mt. 12:36-37; Rom.2:1-4,10:15,12:3-6a,16:17-18; Gal.3:28; Eph.4:3-7,4:25: Col.3:15-17; 1Tim.4:16; James1:26; Deut 10:16-17; 2Chron. 19:7, 36:16; Job 15:6; Ps. 39:1; Prov.8:12-14,17:13-15 In the Book of Hosea it says, "My people perish for lack of knowledge". Hopefully if you took the time to read these Scriptures, they will have helped you. I'm not going to argue with you over this. The Spirit has spoken to me on this matter and this is my last post in this thread concerning this. Mama Swordy love ya bunches!! when the Lord leads you is it by his still small voice? it is often for me. what does that sound like since i am not always listening for his voice. it sounds like a prompting from the Holy Spirit, what is a prompting like, IT IS A FEELING!!!!! so take off your judgemental robes and read the scripture that you keep trotting out when you want to chastise the body of Christ for stepping outside of where YOU think they should stay. secondly, do YOU think the crouchs are annointed by God? seriously??? as for them being pentecostal i haven't noticed that in them and i was raised in the baptist church and left the cog pentecostal for a church that teaches line by line from front to back and that FEELS RIGHT TO ME!!!!!, ACCORDING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. what i do know is they mislead many with their teachings and with many of whom they allow on their network. they have cutoff some really good teachers for not toning down their messages about the muslims and the middle east. since tbn was/is planning to begin broadcasting into that area and they were afraid of strong teachers that were willing to tell the truth about the ismamic faith. demanding the ministers and teachers not tell the whole truth, which a half truth is a lie. that is only one large objection i have to them and their ways, i have more, but that will suffice. also, not being complacent demands that the believer stay on his toes and watch who is teaching what and does it check out according to scripture. the truth of scripture not to the use of proof text or manipulation. how can anyone accuse a believer of following feel good teachings in the same thread where they are attempting to defend the crouchs and tbn? when the crouchs champion the feel good message now, feel free to chastise me!!!!!!!

yet, they imprison christians just for being christians and they let people like these rapists roam at large. God will have his day soon. i wonder where it says this type of act is okay in their koran. a peaceful religion such as it is. also, where is the outcry from the community of believers that follow this "true" way of god? i would love to rant on about this for some time, but, vengence does belong to the Lord and that day is nearer everyday.

floatingaxe, you said it for me. i couldn't think of any good things to add, so i am here to be a witness to your stance and explanation.

i grew up on the kjv and have attended churches that viewed you as if you were satans' right arm if you used anything else. personally i doubt that Jesus ever spoke in olde english, so why do well meaning christians demand we do so. i have heard all of the arguments about translations (english is english) and about missing verses. my wife and i own numerous translations and several study bibles, and computer bible programs and historical records such as Josephus, and i have yet to have anyone show me a verse from the old kjv, that is not in the nkjv, that would change anything. so as for myself, i use the nkjv, i recommend it and believe in it without any hesitation. i assure you the holy spirit can and does lead and teach in it every bit as much and as well as he does any other translation. as for the chart that places people that read certain versions on lower tables of intelligence, i would have to wonder what issues or agenda was behind such alleged research and compilation of statistics, as to produce such a finding. well i guess i will have to repeat all of the grades and classes i have passed since the 7th grade, apparently they were all bogus. that will be hard for an old man such as myself. above all i have every faith that God is capable of protecting and growing his word and keeping it pure. (before anyone even goes there, i am not including the bibles written by false religions and cults in this description as they are not the word of God to start with.)

If you want to make a legitimate comparison show us laws where animal abortions are outlawed. If you killed a human baby (someone who was born) you would be put in jail. Abortion has been around since antiquity. Things have actually gotten better as back then born infants were actually left to die from exposure. i believe i made a legitimate comparison. if you value animal life on a par with or more than human life, you are wrong. if you do this and you claim to be a christian, you are not!! if you can't understand that comparison, what is anyone to say!!! to equate human abortion with animal abortion as you did in your demand for statistical qualifications, leaves me somewhat speachless. go back to your tofu burger. by the way i didn't say anything about animal abortions, i spoke of how concerned the world is about the lives and suffering of animals but don't seem to care about the life of a human. if you want or need the stats on animal abortions, if there is such a thing, get them yourself, i do not need them.) why all of the complications about abortion? once it is known that a woman is pregnant, it is a life. DON'T harm it. if people want to classify me as a rabid or hard core pro-lifer, i will wear that title. to repeat a phrase, "it is a baby, not a choice" the choice people have is the act prior to the pregnancy, after that the concern belongs on the baby. if it is matter of the life of the baby or the mother, pray, pray like you never have before in your life. that is not a matter for public debate. if a man does not think he will be affected by the abortion of the baby, he is really wrong.

tell giuliani, to get over wanting to be president. it is a shame that we have so many laws that would put you into prison for killing a baby animal, yet nothing to protect a human baby. as it was predicted for the endtimes, what is right will be wrong and what is wrong will be right. we have arrived!!

excuse me for my impatience but i skipped to the last page when i saw the topic. i knew yesterday that all of the anti-gun people would jump all over this as an issue to try to prove their point. all i want to say is that you can't stop this kind of crazy. look at the places that handguns are illegal and compare the violent crime statistics to areas where handguns are legal. second, if it had not been handguns it would have been hunting rifles, do you want those gone too? or it could have been molotov cocktails, body bombs, car bombs, poison. he could have and probably would have done the same thing with any number of other materials and techniques. he could have waited until a sporting event and drove his car into a crowd at a high speed. do we make cars illegal? it is the mental illness, not the method. why is it liberals don't seem to want to put anyone in prison, but want to try to rehabilitate the most offensive and heinous criminals, but when some nut job goes off, they want to crucify a college president? i am not aiming this at anyone in particular, just wanting to make a point or two. this thread can go on and on with everyone venting all over the place and the dust hasn't even settled. we are all in a kneejerk mode. yesterday they didn't even know how many people had been killed yet and the press was already trying to convict the college president and the local police of being incompetent. talk about the pot calling the kettle. how about we all try to wait and see what all of the details are before we start jumping all over each other and especially on the authorities. lets pray for the victims and their friends and families and do our grieving and our burying, then lets talk. note, i don't trust anyone with a gun more than i trust myself. i know when i am going to shoot and when i am not. and i hit what i shoot at. that goes for civilians and cops and military, with no disrespect intended towards anyone. i have met alot of people some in law enforcement and out, that i wouldn't trust with a sharp stick. but for the most part, give me a cop that has been trained with a handgun that works the streets when i call for help. thanks for allowing me the time for my opinion.

what we did to them, was all we have to do to provoke the world. we accepted Christ as our savior and we profess that faith without hesitation, and we stand for morals in life.