Rober H

You didn't answer my question. Do you believe a person is supposed to give up all they have and follow Christ like He asked the rich young ruler? How does a person do that today?

God's word! So perfect and refreshing...I love this thread!

I have to agree with you.

This is what a man by the name of Keith Piper thinks. Keith Piper is a Pastor in Australia and he sums up better than I can what I believe as well. This was taken from my own website. For more information click here. http://kjvbible.5u.com/custom.html

ditto that!

thechild, states You mean sell all you have and follow Christ as the Lord told the rich young ruler? How would one do that today? Thanks, Robert

thechild, Your understanding of Matthew 25 is skewed. This is not the resurrection. Christ is on the earth judging the nations and those who survived the Great Tribulation. These are flesh and blood survivors of the tribulation and are separated based on their treatment of Christ's brethren the Jews. The church has already been taken to their judgement in the clouds to meet the Lord. The church is judged but it is not for salvation but for rewards. Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: The time this earthly judgement of living beings (not translated nor resurrected from the grave) takes place is just before the millennium. No resurrection is mentioned. No books are opened. Those who survive and enter the millennium are judged on how they treated Christ's brethren the Jews. All those who treated Christs brethren with love will enter the millennial kingdom with flesh and blood bodies and they were or will be true believers at this time. If the basis of salvation for us at this present time is giving a Jew a drink of water then the bible contradicts itself which it does not. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Jesus said... John 6:27-29 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. If a person does good works and doesn't believe on Jesus and His gospel He or She will perish no matter how much good they have done. Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Remember, Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; A person who does not believe the gospel of grace cannot be saved no matter how many good works they do.

I don't buy it. I know many Mormons and how they do business. Also a JW elder murdered his wife not to far from where I live. Dishonesty and tardiness are not exclusive Christian problems and the groups mentiond are not immune from human weakness while only "Christians" are singled out as flakes. The issue here is the Masons, if they are wrong and if the gentleman who started this thread should attend his grandfathers Masonic awards ceremony. The Masons promote pagan religious beliefs and rituals. Plain and simple, cut and dry. The Mormon Church or Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints was founded on masonry.....Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were Masons. Their parted ways led to a new religion...... I was raised by my parents as a Mormon. My mother was an LDS for 26 years. She has gone to be with the Lord now. She surrendered her life to Christ 19 years before I did and I KNOW that those 19 years of faithful prayer opened the door for MY salvation. I was simply a child who did what he was told until old enough to make my own choices. Later in life (age of 34) I surrendered my Life to Christ and became Born Again, so I have made it my duty to know how to respond to the LDS. God has brought many of them across my path. I find it quite amazing how in their own attempts to convert ME, God has used their own journey as part of HIS plan to SAVE THEM....!!! God is merciful, and it's His Will that none shall perish.... Regards, Ben. Interesting. I didn't know the Mason- Mormon connection. My son lives in the Phoenix area and he spends a lot of time witnessing to Mormons. Also, Nice testimony. I am always happy to read about souls being saved. Keep on proclaiming the gospel. Regards to you as well, Robert

I don't buy it. I know many Mormons and how they do business. Also a JW elder murdered his wife not to far from where I live. Dishonesty and tardiness are not exclusive Christian problems and the groups mentiond are not immune from human weakness while only "Christians" are singled out as flakes. The issue here is the Masons, if they are wrong and if the gentleman who started this thread should attend his grandfathers Masonic awards ceremony. The Masons promote pagan religious beliefs and rituals. Plain and simple, cut and dry.

Reading the bible through is a great idea and makes one wise. I would recommend a read through at least once a year or more if possible. ( And it is possible). Psalms 40:7-8 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. Luke 24:25-27 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. In 2 Timothy 3:16 all scripture meant "all scripture" written up to that time and of course now includes the completed scriptures that were finished and completed during the apostolic era.

That is how I see it too.

apothanein kerdos You are free to start any topic anywhere you want, so, no I don't mind. I would like to hear The Child's answer to my question in this thread though. Thanks, Robert

Are you saying that a person has to give up all they have to get eternal life?

Some people who are unsaved live very interesting lives. Many movie and rock stars give millions to charities, fly to Africa, adopt unwanted children, build homes for orphans etc. I certainly won't put them down for that. In fact good for them! The world loves these people. Their faces are on magazine covers and their good deeds and charitable contributions are shown on televsion, talked about on radio and printed in the newspapers. Jesus gave us an interesting question to ponder. Mark 8:36-37 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Mark 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? So, individuals who do good are helping others and are gaining praise and recognition from the world but unless they believe the gospel of Christ all their good deeds will inevitably profit them nothing and they will lose their souls. I have old friends and aquaintances that have quit smoking and drinking and turned their lives around and are happily married. Yet, they don't know Jesus Christ nor his gospel. I have tried to share the salvation message with them and they will say things like"I am glad you are happy and that your belief system works for you but I am fine the way I am. If their is a God He isn't going to judge me because I am basically a good person." I can see that compared to some other people they might be considered "good" but we have to measure ourselves by God's standards and according to scripture we all fall short. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; I believe the bible clearly teaches that we will not be saved by good works but we are saved for them(Eph.2:8-10). I find many who claim that our "good works" will somehow come into play where salvation is concerned. What do you think?

All a person has to do is watch a TBN praise-a-thon to hear false teaching. Here are a couple of quotes from Mr. Crouch on those who would dare question his teachings on "giving" to TBN. http://www.ondoctrine.com/10tbn.htm#giving Click here...for more http://www.apologeticsindex.org/t27.html http://cultlink.com/ar/TBNbed.htm I have personally heard a man named RW Shambach on a TBN telethon tell viewers that if they write a check to TBN in faith even if they don't have the money in their checking accounts at that moment, God will see to it that money will be there and that God will reward the giver by blessing his or her donation 100 to 1000 fold. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

For some reliable information on Masonic teachings and practices click below http://www.ronrhodes.org/masons.htm

I don't buy for one minute that only Christians are flakes but Mormons and SDA's don't have their share of unreliables. I have business dealings with all types of people too and being flakey on paying bills on time does not seem to be exclusive to Christians.(Talk about a "double standard) In fact most of the people that do business with me that are professed Christians are on time. I have a few Christian clients that are not reliable and in fact are lousy to do business with but that is neither here nor there. The bottom line is still the fact that the Mason's are a group that actively promotes non-Chrisitan beliefs. They are a group that promotes spiritual beliefs. I would't join and promote Mormonism on the basis that they do some "good works". I could join or attend KKK functions using that type of convoluted logic. I wasn't born yesterday.

I think I agree maybe. KJV is also similar to greak due to it's use of words, I prefer KJV, just hope they would also have translated to spanish The Spanish Reina Valera 1909 is supposed to be good translation. G

Eve was seduced because she chose to doubt God and believe the lie. She was seduced but it isn't like she didn't have a chance. Satan made the pitch and then Eve wanted to be wise "like God". Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. We have the same proclivity to sin and pride to this day. 1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. Trusting and believing in Christ counters the curse. It is necessary to believe God and reject the lie to be saved. John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. The first Adam should have protected his wife. Instead he blamed her and God for his disobedience. Genesis 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. The last Adam the "Lord from Heaven" gave His life for the church His bride thus countering what Adam did in the garden. 1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Adam failed to protect his wife and blamed her but Christ took the blame for all! 2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. Ovedya's great post got me reading my bible and looking for the passages that backed up his contentions which I knew were right on! 2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. This is very deep and there is a lot to study and understand here. Eve was approached by Satan because he knew she was the weaker vessel. Check this out! 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. Unlike the first Adam Christ will eternally protect and keep His bride! There is so much more here. This is just opening up to me. When a woman marries a man her debts become his debts too. Christ is heir of all things and His bride is His joint heir. No more debt. This is almost too much for me to take in all at once. Thanks Ovedya! Your post blew me away!

Hey brother, Speaking for myself I wasn't offended. I don't think it was a stupid question but in my opionion doesn't have much to offer. But also speaking for myself I say "dumb things" all the time. It is only a matter of time before I put my foot in my mouth here not that I am saying you have but don't feel like the Lone Ranger in that department. Anyway I wanted you to know that. God bless, Robert

uvn477, Don't be so defensive. You asked a hypothetical question and didn't care some of the answers. I don't think aswering fiction with fiction in this case has any merit. I don't see any dishonesty in that. Christianity isn't false and there are better things to think about. Philippians 4:8-9 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. This is a quote from the author of the Da Vinci "Con". From: http://www.av1611.org/davinci.html

adam chose to listen to his wife instead of to god. Genisis 3 17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife... this dichotomy is further illuminated in the law of moses and can be seen in the tenth commandment: Exodus 20 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. the law is very gender specific. it would be unjust to command a woman not to covet because she is created to mirror the flesh and the flesh, by its very nature, is covetous. therefor, the law does not say, "thou shalt not covet thy neighbours husband". I don't agree at all with your assertion that Eve was created to "mirror the flesh." The New Testament points to Adam as being a type of Christ in at least a couple of places: In Genesis it says that God created Adam from the dust of the earth. Then it says that God built Eve from one of Adam's ribs. Adam was created, but Eve was built. The whole picture of God's building of Eve from one of Adam's ribs is identical to God's building of the church from Christ. Adam was put to sleep. Christ was "put to sleep" on the cross. A rib was removed from Adam's side, from which God built Eve. When Christ was crucified the Roman soldier pierced His side, and out flowed blood and water. The blood and water from Christ's side represents the elements by which the church is established and built up: Blood for her cleansing and water for her building up. In the day when this age is completely finished up, the New Jerusalam, which is the consumation of God's building work in the church, will be presented to Christ as His complete counterpart, and we, as constituants of the New Jerusalem, will be married to our betrothed husband. Eve therefore is not a picture or a "mirror" of anything negative like the flesh. She is a picture of the church, who is even now being built up, prepared, in order that she might marry Christ after the consumation of he age. Wow! That was a deep well thought out post. Very edifying! Thanks! Robert

The apostle Paul made this exact statement on what our reaction should be if Christianity was based on a lie. 1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. Paul did not wrestle or struggle with His faith there was no doubt in His mind. He had seen the risen Christ! He was rebuking people for not believing in the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. The Da Vinci Code is an evil communication and is a tool of Satan to corrupt ! I personally will not even consider such a thought. Paul under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit boldly and without doubt writes the following. 2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. 2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. We either have faith and hope in Christ or misery in this world or shame at His coming to usher in the next. Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly . 1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. This is what the bible teaches. The word of God is what I will hold fast to and so should we all. No doubt, no fear and no apologies! In His service, Robert

Part of the statement and a question in the opening post Sunshine and Smiles, The Mason's honor a god that is not biblical. And it is wrong for a Christian to support or condone their religious teachings. That is a fact This does not slander the Masons anymore than saying that Buddhism is not Christian and their teachings should not be supported or condoned slanders Buddhists. These are not my final thoughts on the subject. 1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. Christians are not supposed to turn back to idols but from them... The only issue we have common ground on is on the fact that it is up to the grandson if he should go or not. I think your problem is with the fact that Christianity is exclusive. If it included all beliefs to make people who think like you happy it would not be Christianity. That is a fact.

There are hypocrites who own up to their hypocrisy and those who don't. We need to be people who try to live holy lives not use the hypocrisy of others or deny our own to remain blind and in a state of sin and denial. There is no "good excuse" for denying Christ. John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.