gekko

should christians still obey the OT laws? the moral laws = yes. because they're talked about alot in the NT. any other laws - if we try to keep any other ones - we're obligated to keep all the others. all 613 other laws... peace

well there's enough proof against the fact that there could be another god that would be the one. but i wont post that proof because you've probably heard it all before and bashed it all. uh yeah i do. im not stupid. which is why everybody (even darwin - who in fact didn't really believe what he taught anyways) labels evolution as a theory - it hasn't been proven. which is what a theory is - and idea of somesort stating a possible explanation of why something has happened. yeah... that's my point... uh - what does that have to do with anything? you still havn't proven that. that's what you say - you can't prove that there ISN'T a God. --- again - you have shown no proof to your argument - i've tried on my end - you've ripped it apart for some reason... and couldn't provide proof to anything you said... (except for my misunderstanding of the big bang theory) so try again. why dont you try proving that there is no God. hm?

epiphany - im worried about the signature you have on your posts... sheep are not called to be in wolf suits... --- sorry im off topic

so how did everything start with evolution? millions and millions of years ago with the Big Bang? where did the big bang come from? some sort of matter that was floating around eventually collided? where did that come from? etc. --- you could have the same argument against creation - where did that come from etc. but at least we christians can prove there is a God. and that we didn't come from dirt. we precise humans evolved from dirt? sounds more illogical then God being the creator.

yah. and apparently 75-85% of america claims to be christian. its a shame. --- sorry. this hasn't been proven even when they play it backwards. its been disproven over and over again.

do everything as unto the Lord. that includes dancing. i'll dance for the Lord whereever i am. whether it be choreographed or random. i'll do it for the Lord. you may think im not - but you dont know me. so keep out of it. eh? im mostly baptist - and i dance to the hymns. yeah. so most hymnal tunes come from secular tunes - and many hymns are the same as national anthems. so what's your point? just because in africa they may be used to raise up demons (which hasn't been proven or disproven) that it shouldn't be in the church? i agree alot of "worship" in churches these days is entertainment - and should be stopped. but i'll dance whether its piano or the beat of a jambe.

secondeve and emeraldgirl - you have some very interesting points - again - i'll take those to thought. --- i want to point something out here: take it as you wish: you said: you are correct. nobody can prove it. even those who claim to have died - supposedly went to heaven - but then was sent back. (which of course i find rediculous) but if - IF there is a heaven and a hell - just imagine IF there was - would you want to take the chance in going to hell? not many would. i mean... its a lake of fire. would you take that chance? --- now you've asked if i could share with you, secondeve, how i could prove to you there is a God - you can take it any way you want. im not you. now im not going to prove to you that the God of us christians is the true God - or that the god of hinduism is false. im not trying to do that. all im going to try and do for you is try to prove to you that there is a God. that's it. without using scripture - without using faith - without using religion. take into account that evolution is not science - it is theory - and has not been proven t hat you came from dirt. which is what it comes down to. evolution is essentially a religion - because its a theory. anyways. here goes - take it as you wish - please provide feedback: if you live in a city - take a look at a large building. now - how do you know if someone built that building? did it just somehow appear after hundreds of years? no. how do you know if there was a builder of that building? the building is proof that there is a builder - you can't see the builder at the moment - but you know that somewhere some builder built that building. its not considered faith that you know a builder built the building - its common sense. look at paintings - if you like paintings that is. look at a painting. how do you know if there was a painter? well. simple. the painting is proof that there is a painter. did the painting appear after hundreds of years of oil paints mixing together? no. so how do you know if there was a painter? the painting is proof that there is a painter - you can't see the painter at the moment - but you know that somewhere some painter painted that painting. its not condsidered faith that you know a painter painted the painting - its common sense. now. look at the forests around you - the animals - the plantation/vegetation - the mountains - rivers - oceans etc. how do you know if that creation had a creator? well. simple. the creation is proof that there is a creator. did evolution make everything so precise over hundreds of years? no. how do you know if there was a creator that created this creation? the creation is proof that there is a creator. you can't see that creator - but you know somewhere out there is a creator that created this creation of animals, mountains etc. its not faith that you know there is a creator that created the creation. its common sense. --- what do you think?

hey all. im wondering - does anybody know where in scripture its prophesied that Damascus will be destroyed? and what of this war going on now? ('wars and rumors of wars') do you think that the above prophesy could come true during this war? God bless.

Paul Kaiser. what you have just displayed is a works-based salvation. just because one isn't prepared - you say that he is not saved. because he has not fruits. but we are not saved on whether or not we have fruits. we are saved by believing and a repentant faith. (also taken from wotm - as i can see most of your post is) the stony ground hearer was saved. so was the thistle grounded hearer. the wayside hearer was not saved because he understood not the word. why do i say that the first two i mentioned are saved? because only the saved have a chance at producing good fruit. the unsaved do not have a chance at producing good fruit. --- i suggest you look into the difference between "salvation of the spirit" and "salvation of the soul" - they are intertwined. yet separate. --- just a question - are you part of the school of biblical evangelism?

hmm. interesting post secondeve. i'll take note of what you've said. thank you. --- although i could prove to you there is a God. (many christians say they can... hmm) but without using the bible - and without using the term 'faith' - and without using anything to do with religion if you're curious (or if anyone's curious) - PM me. --- you do have some valid points. although - you still dont know when you'll die. --- i will point this out though first with an illustration: if i go to the top of the empire state building - and believe - convince myself that there is no such thing as gravity - and then go jump off. what's going to happen to me? ----> KERSPLAT!! yeah. i'll be dead - because gravity was still there. here's what im getting at: what you believe in - or what you think is right for you - does not neglect the Truth. --- just some food for thought.

let me throw something out here that will probably get EVERYBODY's head spinning... RND - you say that the soul cannot live for eternity. --- has anyone ever heard of "salvation of the soul" ? also "salvation of the spirit" ? salvation of the spirit is what most of christendom call salvation. but there is the salvation of the soul - 1 Peter 1:9 - Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. so yes - the soul can live for eternity. God takes back the spirit that he gave us.

another thing we need to realize is the when the NT speaks of the "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven" it is not talking about Heaven. the kingdom is in us Jesus said. the kingdom is a spiritual realm where spiritual warfare goes on. thats how scripture lays it out. so what we christians call "Heaven" and the "kingdom of heaven" are different. where the Lord resides and "kingdom of God" is different. ---

floatingaxe. please read the following. which i posted earlier on. i will rephrase something.

its the Holy Spirit's job to CONVICT. (caps for emphasis not yelling) we are to use scripture to convince. "almost thou pursuaded me to become a christian" - recognize where that's from? acts i believe.

here's the scripture: "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: For we walk by faith, not by sight: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." no where in that portion of scripture does it say that right when you die you go to be with the Lord. no where in that scripture does it say that right when you die that you dont go to be with the Lord. paul is simply saying that while we are mortal - we are not in the presence of the Lord. paul is also simply saying that he would rather get out of this mortal state and be in the presence of the Lord.

wow. all i can say is wow. unbiblical cliche's are in this thread. can't you spot them? now i am not at all doubting anyone when they say they are saved. --- first of all: "God shaped hole in your heart that only Jesus can fill" - it may not be unbiblical - but we as christians should not use this phrase for it causes a false hope. second: "Jesus will make you happy!" - that is unbiblical - Jesus will cause us to have Joy in our hearts - there is no promise of happiness. if you think so - provide scripture. --- listen to secondeve. how are you going to witness to this person? are you going to say that he/she's got a God shaped hole in his/her heart and only Jesus can fill it? this persons gonna respond with "im already happy - i've got what i want - now go away" you gonna say "Jesus will make you happy!" uh... secondeve already said "im happy" you going to say "God's got a wonderful plan for your life!" yeah. secondeve will probably say - "yah - and so do i - and im playing it out right now" --- may i ask how all of you got saved?

hey. im curious as to people's thoughts on this. and/or if they have any scripture to back their opinions. where did evil come from? did God create evil? or did satan? or what?

yes.

yah... like that'll go well. doing what we want and doing what God wants are different things.

well - you'd better get acuainted with the scriptures and re-read my post. there is scripture there. --- so you're going to abide by that law in genesis... do you eat pork? do you stone people when they disobey the law? do you sacrifice? etc. --- the laws that have changed. do you know what laws have been changed? the sacrificial laws. under the priesthood. that is what has changed. you have eisegeted that scripture and made it out to say that the law has been done away with. you need to read the whole book of hebrews to understand what is meant. even just the chapter for that matter. to beable to exegete the scripture. --- what hasn't changed is the moral laws. which Jesus talked extensively about. not as much as some other topics. but still. --- you focus on that law in genesis. yet you dont take into account any other scripture. you eisegete it.

im wondering if i could also add to this that what draws people to Christ is the Holy Spirit. and the fact that Christ is full of Grace AND Truth. so we must be like Christ and have both Grace and Truth when we speak to them. God bless!

oh wow. that's as much a heretical unbiblical cliche as "if you ask Jesus into your heart he will defenitaly come in!" stay away from it. its not biblical. God will not indwell a wicked person. --- oh. and will you people please stop quoting one person after the other? its wasting space, bandwidth, and reading time. sweet - thanks.

first and foremost - Christ did not come to do away with the law. that is unscriptural. and heretical. yes they were fulfilled. what does that mean - fulfilled? well... when a glass if half full - and you want to fill it up - do you first empty the glass of fresh water and then fill it up with more fresh water? no. the law is our school master to bring us to Christ. think of it like this: during school - you have rules. when you graduate - you thank your school master for helping you through your school years - do you then take out your glock and shoot your school master in the head? no. you thank him and you keep memories of him. im speaking of the moral laws - because Jesus spoke on the moral laws. the ten commandments. Paul said that he had not known sin but by the law. so without the law - it seems as though there is no sin - yet the person who knows not the law is living ignorantly in sin. --- all over the NT there is the moral law. sermon on the mount - Jesus didnt change the ten commandments - he shone a new light on old law expanding them. in Acts, the epistles, revelations etc. if you can find a place that says we dont have to follow the moral laws then i'll give you a $1,000.00 money order. (i dont use paypal yet) but i dont have to worry - because you wont find such a scripture reference. --- "Thou shalt not murder" ever heard of that? by your post i dont think you have. if someone has done something so terrible that according to man's standards he needs the death penalty - then fellow man is not to take his life. it is in God's hands. God has given that person life - and God can take it away. "Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge His people." so it is not for man to take man's life. for we can only kill the body. God can kill the body and the soul. --- the moral law has not been done away with. God bless.

could you please not swear Lepaca? thanks. --- obviously the two mean different "observing" and "obeying" because the scriptures dont contradict themselves. they have totally different meanings alltogether. the pharisee's observed the law. paul obeyed the law. --- then comes the question: what is the purpose of the law? --- works without faith is vain. faith without works is dead. but its still faith. --- a swimming pool without water is still a swimming pool. it would hurt to try and swim in it though. ---

notice the difference though. there's no debate here. its simple... what is different in those two verses? "observing the law" and "obeying the law" those that just observe the law wont be righteous. i wont be swimming if i just stand at the side of the pool and think that im swimming. those that obey the law will be righteous. i will be swimming if i jump into the water.