Joshua-777

What Kim Walker believes is no where near what your accusing her of believing as evidenced through her sermons and lyrics. Your issue is with personal prophecy, which you clearly don't believe in. With the glory cloud and other signs, your issue with it is that you don't understand why God would do something like that, so in your opinion He wouldn't. No where does those signs contradict scripture and a cloud manifesting vs. Being taken up in heaven and having mind blowing visions are two different things. With the Kundilini thing, once again it's your opinion birthed out of fear and not understanding. What you're calling the kundilini is leading people by the millions to Christ. The Charismatic/Pentecostal movement is the fastest growing sect of Christianity and also the most missional. Among those you got Reinhard Bonnke who has lead over 70 Million to the Lord, Heidi Baker who has risks her life for the Gospel and has lead over a million people to the Lord, Lief Hetland who risks his life in Muslim countries and has also lead a million people to the Lord. Heidi and Leif both were both on the point of burn out when they were hit by the glory of God at Toronto, that empowered them to impact nations for the Gospel of Christ. What we should use to discern is not the odd manifestations, but the confession of faith and the fruit. The Kundilini will not confess Jesus. 1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Panthesm? no, way different. Pantheism believes that all of creation is God, and that God is an impersonal force. Truth is God lives in believers through the Holy Spirit and there is this crazy relationship with Him described in John 17 that I can't wrap my mind around, The Holy Spirit, is transforming us into the image of Christ. 2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord. With the cloud of glory, I've been in meetings where His presence fell and about 15-20 people in the audience started screaming and slithering like snakes getting delivered from demonic spirits, healed, set free. I don't think a fog machine can do that. Discounting and calling something heresy because you don't understand it, isn't a good reason. That is saying "God will only do something that I can understand, and if I can't understand it, it is heresy." You say the presence of God terrified people people, it did, but there is another side where friends of God loved to stay in His presence such as Joshua, and peoples response to the glory was to worship Him. Exodus 33:9 And it came to pass, when Moses entered the tabernacle, that the pillar of cloud descended and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the Lord talked with Moses. 10 All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshiped, each man in his tent door. 11 So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle. David feared leaving God's presence, Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. In His presence is also refreshing and fullness of Joy Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, Psalm 16:11You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore. Adam and Eve loved the presence of God until sin entered, then they hid from His presence(Gen 3:8). Cain killed able and left the presence of God (4:16), Sin causes us to hide from God's presence, but we can now enjoy the presence of God because of the blood of Jesus. The blood of Jesus is enough to perfect our conscience towards God. Which, if we really understand the power of the blood of Jesus, we would not shrink back in fear. Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! Through Christ, we become friends of God. John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you If you view yourself as a sinner and an enemy of God, then yes, God's presence will scare you. If you know that Jesus has declared you righteous, and that he really paid for your sins, then you can have a clear conscience and boldly approach the throne of grace. I cant answer for Todd Betnly, I haven't followed any of his teachings, I do believe the kundilini warning is a bunch of garbage spreading fear and division. I've watched a few of those videos and they are slanted, twisted, misquoted, and have false information. The devils the accuser of brethren, and it's really sad when the Body of Christ acts like him. The kundilini is a counterfeit found in Hinduism and new age, it will never point people to Jesus, as the only begotten son of God. There is, however a rise of new age teachings, as I'm witnessing and talking to people alot, I'm seeing a growing trend I'm concerned with. There is many who hold the beliefs that we are all Christs, and Jesus was just someone who realized who he was, or that there is a universal Christ consciousness that we are all trying to tap into. Many practicing Reiki and Therapeutic touch which is occult in nature, it's being payed for by insurance in most hospitals. That is a growing concern that I'm seeing many be deceived by, however, They all claim Jesus wasn't the Son of God and attack the deity of Christ. They are not the Charasmatic movement.

That's the Jesus culture we're talking about. There is some misunderstandings on this though. Bethel does believe in the role of apostle and prophetic still being in effect, but the apostles and prophets are held to the authority of scripture, their message in the time is grounded to scripture and not new doctrine. They also believe and operate in the gifts of the Spirit. They believe all the gifts are fully in function and to aid the spread of the Gospel and the edification of the Church. The website this info is from takes a stance that all sign gifts have ceased.

Shiloh, With Kim Walker, that is not heresy. Feeling herself in the arms of Jesus, having a vision of God making a copy of her out of Himself to look at, is not adding to scripture or taking away from it. What is the fruit, comfort and edification, which prophetic ministry is edification, exhortation, and comfort. If your having a hard day and you feel Jesus hug you, that is comforting, if you see the picture she saw that bear fruit that, "Wow, God loves me, He created me." That vision doesn't teach new doctrine but is like God saying, "I love you, Your valuable to me, I made you in my image" I remember praying for a guy who looked like the demonic Jack Sparrow. He had dreadlocks, an eagle claw holding a crystal around his neck. While we prayed he started manifesting a demon a little but and I had a vision of a Father playing catch with his son and I told him what I saw and that God wanted to be a father to him. He broke down crying and was delivered. Now, with that, you can say hey thats not scriptural! God the Father doesn't play baseball. But it was something showing the relationship God wanted to have with him. I went to see Kim Walker and Jesus Culture about two years ago in Portland. There was a lady who was paralyzed from her waste down. She had a vision of dancing with Jesus and when she came out of the vision she was out of her wheel chair dancing. I think my pastor at the time knew her personally. God can and does speak to us. This is just normal Christianity. We have the Holy Spirit available to everyone Joel 2:28 “And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. Lets move on to Glory clouds, angel feathers, gold dust etc. Would it be better if they talked to donkeys? Or if they spit in peoples eyes to heal them? In the bible God moved in so many ways. as a glory cloud, healing, multiplication, making the road appear like sapphires, making an axe head float. Holding the sun still, winding it backwards, walking on water, blinding sorcerers, Pauls clothing casting out demons, making money out of a fishes mouth. the list goes on and on. To say that God exhausted His resources and will not do anything different than what's been written in regards to how He manifests, is to ignore that God always does something different and new as evidenced through the progression of the bible. I've actually seen angel feathers appear out of nowhere during meetings, gold dust cover our seats and hands, I have two chucks of gold taped in my bible from when I received prayer and had gold in my teeth and lips. I don't look for that stuff but sometimes it does happen. Those signs also don't take my focus off of Jesus. I want to know Him more, We enter the Kingdom like a child. John 20:30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; John 21:25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen. WIth Todd Bentley, Bill Johnson's heart was not to throw him out as a heretic because he fell in horrible sin. Bill wanted to see him restored back to the truth of the Gospel. He made it publicly clear that he does not approve or condone any of those actions but also said that Todd was a friend of his and he was not going to throw him to the wolves. His interest in Todd Bentley was to see him restored back to Jesus. What you've mentioned was not heresy but more of a cessationist view of the operation of the Spirit.

So what do you believe they teach is heresy? Also, with many heresy hunter websites, a lot of the info is misquotations, directly false information, and are aimed to spread fear.

People can get saved through false teachers yes, but it's the fruit of their lives that I'm most blown away by. More than nice people, many of them become people who risk their lives to spread the Gospel to the nations. I minister sometimes with Bethel students and love Jesus culture. I disagree with you strongly on them being shot through with heresy, but as we've discussed on topics before, we don't really agree with each other too much. I do however, believe in Jesus, that he was the Son of God, that He died on the cross, rose again, and is the only way to the Father, eternal life, and the Kingdom of heaven, and that He's coming again to rule and reign over the earth. lol, So does Jesus culture and Bethel. I also like that Bethel addresses heresy when it comes up. Just a few weeks ago, someone who was really well known came to Redding recently and really fell from the faith. He taught that we are all gods, and Jesus wasn't God, and some other really twisted doctrine. Bill Johnson addressed the issue and had four sessions counter what was said, defending the deity of Christ and countering the new age doctrine this guy brought and issued a severe warning against him but also asked that everyone would pray that he would be restored back to the faith.

I love Jesus culture and Bethel. I've visited Bethel a few times and know many people who have graduated from BSSM and are a part of that ministry. They are some of the most radical, onfire, in love with Jesus people you can meet. I have known so many people who have given their lives to Jesus because of the fruit of those ministries also. I've seen people radically transformed, delivered from addictions, and become passionate lovers of Jesus because of their ministry. I'm also glad that Charasmatic/pentecostle is the fastest growing part of Christendom in the world today. I honestly believe that John MacArthur has put out way more poisonous stuff with his strange fire, charasmaric chaos, etc. He has caused so much division in the body of Christ and persecution for anyone who believes in the gifts of the Spirit.

Yes!

A few authors I really love are Bill Johnson, Randy Clark, Heidi Baker, and Graham Cooke.

The Lord placed me in a ministry where I'm dependent on His leading. I help train teams in evangelism that is dependent on the Holy Spirit. When we leave, alot of times God will give clear direction where to go, words about people, personal direction in steps to take, confirmation, and so much more. I can give hundreds of examples of God speaking to us and moving us. One day my wife and I were at the mall and as soon as I got there, I saw a picture in my mind of a guy with shoulder length brown hair, a black beanie, a black sweater and a long board, and I heard shoulder and toe. Chelsea recorded me saying that. That day we saw many people touched by the love of God and come to know Jesus. I didn't see that guy though. As soon as we were leaving, I saw the guy sitting on a bench with some other friends, we walked up asking if we could bless them. I was surprised because one of the guys had a pentagram on his beanie and he was like, ya that would be cool. The guy i was looking for was exactly what I saw. I asked him if he had pain in his shoulder and his toes. He said he had pain from his shoulders to his toes. We prayed for healing and then I got a word about how he climbs high things, and turns out he was a rock climber. Chelsea played him the description and he gave his life to Jesus. I was hanging out with my friend Dem Saturday and there was two new agers hanging around, who are deep in the energy and meditation type stuff. He asked if he could pray for them and they started debating about some force, Dem said he knew that force, it's Jesus. They kind of disagreed then Dem challenged them, he said, "Well, let me pray and ask Jesus something only He would know about you." One guy said no, but the other guy kind of pushed him into seeing what happens. So Dem prayed, and then said some accurate things about his character and asked if his parents got a divorce. He started really stressing and said, "You all are going to mess me up" The divorce was the reason why he lost faith in God, so Dem, listening for Gods voice was able to call it out. The guy freaked out and said he had to get out of there. Another example, one day I was walking through walmart and I saw a girl and heard "Suicide" in my heart. I asked her if I could talk with her and turns out she was struggling with suicide over a relationship issue. My wife and I were able to minister to her and reveal God's heart for her in that situation. Another example, a girl came to a meeting wanting a deeper walk with the Lord. My friend Michael starts telling her about how much God loves her and wants to be a Father to her, and then started saying things that she used to pray for when she was little. She broke down crying and her walk with the Lord has been strengthened ever since. One time my wife and I took a leap of faith on what we believed God was telling us to do. That leap put us in a spot where we had to move and had no money. I prayed and kept hearing the Lord say "Trust Him" A lady randomly knocks on the door and handed us three thousand dollars saying the Lord told her to give it to us. We had the money to move. I believe we can hear God's voice. We actually have more clear examples of people hearing the Holy Spirit talk to them in the book of acts, than the scriptures speaking to them. I also think it's ludicrus to think that God no longer speaks to us personally, considering the fact he did in the OT and NT, and now He lives in us through the Holy Spirit. We're uinder a much better covenant. When Holy Spirit prompts us, moves us, changes our direction, He will never take away from scripture, but make scripture personal. Lets say that God is calling me to be a missionary in Africa, I cannot find a single scripture in the bible where it says, "Josh is called to be a missionary in Africa" I can go to scripture and find concepts, missionary work, and and understand the commission but no where in scripture do I find, Josh go to Africa. God is still spreading His Kingdom and He is still giving us direction. He didn't write a book and lose His voice.

Because if the director is an atheist, his views are going to be seen through his work.

I like the way the CJB translation puts it. James 2:17 Thus, faith by itself, unaccompanied by actions, is dead. 18 But someone will say that you have faith and I have actions. Show me this faith of yours without the actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions! If you have faith in God, you are going to act on it.

Do you mean luck as in random things happening, or God's favor being displayed more and more?

That depends on what you want. Do you want the worship music to entertain people by how well it's executed or do you want the worship to carry God's presence presence and change people? I've seen very well executed worship, timely, everything sounded amazing, and it was professionally executed but lacked something. For some reason it was a struggle to really enter into worship. Other times, I've seen worship, where the worship leader is on stage worshiping the Lord with all his heart and there is a presence that is in the room with it. It causes people to be more aware of God and I've seen many people run up to give their lives to the Lord because of the music alone. They encountered God through the music.The difference between the two is one was performing for the audience, the other was worshiping and connecting with God through the music. What are you after? If you want to lead people into an encounter with God through music, prayer is more necessary than practice.

So, I was just wondering on everyone's opinion of Christian yoga. I know that's a growing thing, but it kind of concerns me for multiple reasons. I remember praying with a lady who had horrible back pain. As we prayed, the pain started moving around to other parts of her body and getting more intense. An hour of praying over her, I heard the word "Yoga." I asked if she practiced yoga and she did and said, "thinking about it, that's when I first got this pain." She renounced yoga and the pain left instantly. I've seen a few healings similar now. When I was in bible college, I took a class on spiritual warfare and the professor was from India. He brought up this subject and said that there is a saying "You cannot have Hinduism without yoga, and you can't have yoga without Hinduism." To someone who grew up in a Hindu culture, Christian Yoga is not possible. Yoga is the communion of Hinduism. It's how they have communion with their gods, they open themselves through yoga to spiritual encounters with demonic spirits. What are your thoughts?

When I was an earl teenager, I was drawn quickly to drugs because I wanted something to change the way I felt. I grew up under alot of abuse and struggled with constant depression. Drugs were a way to feel something different. When I was introduced to Crystal Meth at the age of 15, that quickly became my drug of choice. It felt mellow but amazing peace. On it, your house could burn down and everything could be going wrong but you still would feel peace, it also made you focus on things for hours. When I was crashing, it felt like death gave me a hug, but when I was on it I felt more alive than ever. That is how drugs quickly get people hooked, the feeling of estacy and an escape from the problems of life. When I was 18 I moved to WV from CA to get off probation early. When I got to WV, I tried finding meth but couldn't. I went through some hard withdrawals, mood swings every few minutes. One night I broke down and started shouting at God question after question about things I blamed Him for. The next day my sister made me go to Church. It was my first experience in a more Charismatic Church. During the worship, I started feeling this love, peace, and joy wash over me, then something inside me rise up and I felt hatred towards it. I started hearing my thoughts, but they weren't my thoughts say, "I will not give my life to Jesus!" Then, the lady on the worship team locked eyes with me and spoke something in tongues. When ever she said caused me to tremble under this intense presence and I was in snot and tears. All the anger left, I was undone. I ran to the front to give my life to Jesus. A month goes by and my sister found marijuana seeds in my room and kicks me out of the house. I ended up moving into a house that was a 24-7 party house. Every night was a crazy party, there was a constant supply of weed, alcohol, and cocaine. I would get high, but something was different. I no longer could be satisfied with drugs. I used to get high and be at peace, but now I just felt more depressed. I realized drugs are a counterfeit for the presence of God. About a year of drugs, it no longer satisfied like God's presence so I quit. This was about 11 years ago. I am convinced that drugs are a counterfeit to the presence of God. That peace that surpasses all understanding, that is what people are searching for in drugs. That can only come from the presence of God. Now, I witnesses to drug addicts on the streets all the time and one thing I love to do is to take their hand and pray for the peace of God to fill them. Alot of times, they will end up feeling higher on God than drugs could ever get them.

It's interesting America has been the #1 missionary sending country and has aided the spread of the Gospel through out the world for the last hundred years. America needs Jesus, I'm a firm believer in you reap what you so. America has yet to reap into the harvest she's sown into.

Then why did Jesus die for us? I gave you scripture that proves that we are chastised (punished) for our sins. You just made a statement of fact with nothing to back it up. Do I really have to explain the plan of salvation to you? When Adam sinned by eating of the forbidden fruit, it created a separation between man and God. There had to be a method of restoring us to right relations with the Father, so he sent his Son Jesus to pay the penalty for our sins. The wages of sin is death, so Jesus died for our sins, not his own, When we accept him as our Lord and Savior, his death pays the penalty for our past sins. It doesn't guarantee that we will never suffer consequences for future sins. As a matter of fact, scripture says just the opposite. It states that God chastises disobedient children. Are you going to deny the scriptures? God's chastisement or correction is not just for sin, it is how he trains us, and matures us. He is not punishing us as the very scripture you quote does not say that. It says he is disciplining us out of love and to make us partakers of his Holiness. Sure there are times when he will chasten us because of sins, but we all are chastened by the Lord, regardless if we sin or not. It is his way of bringing us to a point where he wants us. Scripture does not describe this as "Punishment". On topic, we avoid sin because God has given us new natures. We still wrestle with the devil, and our own flesh at times, but our desire is to please God. Not only that but, we have people who are looking to us as lights. We are the only Christ they will see. We are to be children of light, and show forth God's glory to the world around us. It is a huge responsibility. Hebrews 12:3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: “My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.” The context of chastisement appears to be suffering hostility from sinners. The purpose is to train us in righteousness.

Because I'm in love with Jesus.I love being close to Him, I love His peace, His presence. When were close to Him, the desire for sin diminishes. It's like eating at a five star dinner and then someone says, hey lets dig in a trash can to get some good food. It doesn't sound appealing. However, if you stand outside the restaurant, you don't know your a child of God, you don't know intimacy with Him, you act like a spiritual homeless orphan. In that place, trash does look appealing. We are His children. He loves us!

Yay Jesus!

There is a flood of satire websites I'm seeing come across facebook, landlover, worldnewsdaily, etc.

1 Corinthians 14:4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. So tongues don't lead to spiritual growth? I guess Paul must have meant something else by edify. It makes sense to me that spiritual gifts will cause spiritual edification. I don't think he was ordering them in importance, he actually does do that at the bottom of the chapter. 1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. If you want to cut off the pinky in favor of the thumb, your going to weaken your grip.