Metropolitan

I was looking for something regarding Judas, and instead of opening another topic, I thought i will bump this one, instead! John 6:70 says "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve , and one of you is a devil" First of all, Im assuming the literal meaning here, of Judas being a devil If Judas was a devil, why was he chosen to be among Jesus' disciples? If he indeed was a devil, isnt it ironic that Judas' name wud have figured in the 'book of life'? I wish someone can sort this out for me...Thanks and God Bless

I pretty much agree with that...I normally dont set aside a day for fasting and praying..If the Lent season allows me to do that, I see no harm...I dont think the argument is about whether it is good or bad(How can it be good for some, and bad for others, beats me still)...We are debating about the scriptural aspect of it...I hope we keep it that way

What I would like to know is that the abstinence of meat, or meat products is throughout the 40 days period or is it applicable on certain days of the week? Horizon, while I dont entirely deny it may be a man-made tradition, cause there is no instance in the bible where Jesus and his disciples/apostles have given a Lenten call to their followers, it may have had a relevance in the early time ...Probly an effort to get the early Christians to a time for self-introspection and spiritual cleansing, if I may call that! Man-made tradition? I dont know, maybe yes!

There are lots of people who atleast try change their lifestyle during the lent ,in a positive manner...Self-denial? I dont think theres anything wrong with this...I dont know where exactly this fits in the scriptures, but if its helping some folks, whats the harm?There is no period specified in the bible where we need to fast n pray, again it may be an initiative of the early church fathers, and they did make it sound like an apostolic tradition!

My God, Shiloh...I never thought that there was so much to the word covenant...This is amazing...The wealth of knowledge that im getting from this forum..Just that, Im too excited to even read it all!

TheLutherans claim it as a sign and remembrance of Baptism. Following are some references which I got from the ELCA worship :FAQ site

I always wanted to ask this, but dint know whom to ask..What is the relevance of the 'sign of the cross'(In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the H.S)? ...Why is this tradition still so important in some mainstream(catholic and orthodox) churches? How did it originate? I hope I get some answers to this ....God Bless!!

1- Doesn't matter. He was commissioned by God to do it, 2- If you look at history, baptism is not unique to judaism or christianity. Lot of religions have purification rites with water. 3- Because that was the norm for John's baptism. They had to repent and confess their sins. 4- I think you mean "confirmation". 5- Because the Bible requires personal faith and repentance before baptism. Steve Thanks Steve..I personally had 2 baptisms, the last one much later in life(my church is not aware of that)...We have infant Baptism in our church, thats why we had the same for my son..Im sure someday he will have another one just like me when its time for him..Obedience to the Bible will take precedence in my life, but church traditions are important to me too, as I dont want to be alienated from those who follow them! In the love of Jesus Christ, my saviour John

I always wanted ask this....We read the first instance of water baptism by John the Baptist....If Jesus was baptised by John, then who baptised John? When was he baptised? Is there a possibility that someone else must have started it, which is not recorded in the bible? And why was Jesus baptised so late in his life? Mainstream churches follow infant baptism, and once the child grows up he affirms the same vows taken by his parents at the time of his "First communion"? why is this considered not right? As a parent I wud like my son to be a Christian as early as he can in his life...So why is it wrong if i arrange to get him a baptised as a child?

What a crock. That is based on the "Book of Legends," not upon the Scripture. It goes back to post-biblical midrashic literature that dates to just before the Medieval period. The "hills" are actually summits such as Scopious, Nob, a ridge between the Trytopean valley and the Kidron Valley and other places of similar ilk. They are not literally "hills." Jerusalem sits on Mt. Moriah, which is really more of a mountain range than a single mountain. Jerusalem is surrounded by ridges, summits and valleys, not separate "hills." What a compassionate teacher you are! I don't possess much patience for those who take every opportunity to disparage Israel. Like I said, I stand by everything I say. David, Im pretty new here, and so far I have seen some very responsible posts from a whole lot of worthy 'officials'...But some how, the tone of your posts in this particular thread has taken me aback..And more so when I see them responding to a womans post..A newbie like me may form an alternate impression about you, which I think is not right! God Bless you bro!

Ah, the age old question. Well in Romans 9 God says he has mercy on whom he has mercy but he also says no man comes to the Father but by me. That's all I know And the descedents of Adam who lived in the B.C era? I know they will be judged according to the Law, because they were under the law...But where are they now? Are they already judged? There is mention of Abraham being in the Heaven, so was he judged according to the Law?Or is his judgement is pending too? Im sorry for asking all of these..And I hope Im not guilty of the following verse said by Paul to Titus in 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

And what happens to the people who has never heard the message of salvation? Where do they go? Is there any possibility that they may pass the test at the time of judgement?

I think the truth is somewhere in between the extremes....The spiritual world and the literal interpretation cannot be absolute in their own ways...One cannot do without the other....It will be a little pre-posterous to assume that everything mentioned in the Book of Revelations is as literal as it can be, but then one cannot see all of them as a 'sign' of things to come...When we die we surely go to a place....Assuming that place to be Heaven, which at the moment we dont where it is, but it surely exists, as that is what the first verse of the Bible says in Gen 1:1...This Heaven could be anywhere in space hidden from us, or maybe another galaxy(dont have scripture to quote)...But if Stephen did see it from earth.. Act 7:55 'But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,' Act 7:56 'And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.' Both these verses indicates that Stephen actually saw Heaven from earth as he looked "up"...which to an extent means that Heaven is somewhere above...and 'standing' another physical aspect to heaven? To all me this is fine..But there was another question in my mind, which I cudnt run away from?? What was the need for the "New Earth" ???? Why wudnt we just abide with Jesus in this present Heaven? One school of thought says...That earth is the realm where God's glory has been challenged and resisted , it is therefore also the stage on which his glory will be most graphically demonstrated.By reclaiming , restoring , renewing and resurecting Earth and empowering a regenrated mankind to reign over it, God will accomplish his purpose of bringing glory to himself--Alcorn Hmm....So far so good...At this stage I wud like to believe that we all will be heading to the intermediate Heaven after the judgement of faith..So it is not your works but your faith that decided where u r heading to(heaven or hell)....The final judgment of works will be at the end of the old earth(after the millenium??) and before the beginning of the New Earth Ref for above Eph 2:8,9 Tit 3:5 Rom 14: 10-12 2 1 Cor 3:13-14 2Tim 2:12 Rev 2: 26-28 and 3:21Cor 5:10 Whether it is a physical place or not, whether we shall have glorified bodies or not,, we shall surely come to know... But what is more imp is that we all hold on to our faith in Christs atoning sacrifice for us...As that is what is going to save us from the sins we committed..and that is what is going to decide where you are headed to!

Treasured, I cant thank you enough..Thanks again

I agree with that too...Frankly speaking, I have been going through these thoughts, especially in the last few days!

Erich, Im a little confused now.Im still trying to understand what exactly are you trying to say by this post.3 different aspects to a temptation? Whats is God trying to say to us through these verses? Im not sure, but are we missing something here...God Bless

Floatingaxe, I expected more than that from you...Im sure you would like to back it up with some thought provoking explanations, as you normally do..Thanks!!

...to tempt us? We are all so aware that God did test/tempt Abraham as we read in Gen 22:1...But as I was reading the other verses containing tempt, it was all in the context man tempting God or Christ...We also say the Lord Prayer, And lead us not into temptation , but deliver us from evil" Mat 6: 13 Luk 4:13 "And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season."...We read about the temptation of Christ..Was there any involvement of Father God in this temptation? I would request my brethren here, to please enlighten me in this regard...Does God test us knowingly? And does he allow the devil to tempt us as well? God Bless

The arguments by Pixy and whysoblind reminds me of an incident some years back.My neighbour was a Pentecostal Christian(the kinds who wear 'only whites' to church and dont visit medics for any sickness whatsoever) ...Her 14 year old son suddenly fell very sick but she refused to take him to a doctor...And she kept on fasting and praying...Needless to say his condition got complicated with acute pneumonia and what not and he finally died after some days...It was a shocking incident for all of us in the neighbourhood...We cant blame God for our stupidity....You cant ride on the bonnet of a car, expecting God to save you from an inevitable accident My apologies for going Off-topic , but we as Christians got to face these contemporary issues with a bit of rationality. PS: I have to also mention this. God is faithful.HE has blessed that family and their financial condition has changed much for the better.They are doing fine by the Grace of God

If someone can give a bit more clarity on the subject...Im not sure if the bible advocates only 'natural contraception' or 'natural family planning', and has a case against all other kinds of contraception within the institution of marriage, ofc?

Thanx for those slideshows..Loved them all, but the River Jordan, Mount Tabor and Mount Zion has left a lasting impression on my mind...I have seen a lot of sandy desert , since Im living in the midst of one...But these are truly wonderful pics...Thanx again

I hope I dont end up being a topic-killer Its an interesting topic, thats why I thought of responding to this. Im not a hugger/kisser myself, and a firm hand-shake is all that I extend and expect from people whom I really dont know myself. And as somebody pointed out , if ever I hug, its got to be a genuine warm hug, not half hearted. And it usually happens with folks whom i know very well. I also think most women would surely come to know the ulterior motive, when she feels a physical contact. And so she has every right to protest, if she doesnt like it.Theres no point being silent about it, if you really cant stand it.Just avoid him and make it obvious as well! I wudnt expect a stranger to go on a hugging-spree(if thats the term) in my church, cause thats not common-place with us.

I have been reading this particular thread with great interest.The topic "Heaven" has always attracted me, and there are indeed a lot of queries for which I was seeking some answers to. Most theoligians have now woken upto the theory of "new heaven" and a "New Earth". When we die we more or less know where we are going..So if its the heaven, or intermediate heaven, I would like to know if this place is in space at the moment?.or probably in other universe unseen by mankind?? Acts 7:55-56 says " Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to Heaven and saw the heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God" please note the word in italics...looked up, saw and standing.All these indiactes that Heaven is a physical place/realm somewhere up there...But then obviously my next query is where is the intermediate hell, then? Also will we be judged immediately after our death? then what about the final judgement when Christ comes back( Revelations 20: 11-13)? Can somebody give us some more insights into these? God Bless