Romans623

I particularly like Lee Strobel. His "Case For..." series is instructive, inspiring and edifying. Mr. Strobel effectively answers critics of God and the Bible on many levels. He interviews the experts who provide otherwise inaccessible answer that expose the criticisms as disingenuous. He is particularly good in "The Case For The Real Jesus." He tackles the accusations leveled against the original manuscripts that make up the Bible as we know. His defense of them is insightful and intuitive. He chooses people to interview who have their finger on the pulse of the most important experience and background to derail the vicious, and often caustic criticisms. As a laymen, I would not begin to know how to answer or silence these critics, or where to find the sources that could. Lee Strobel provides great support and relief by making those powerful responses available in his books. -Romans623

If there is any Common Denominator that should draw people of different backgrounds together you would think that Jesus Christ's death for us, and the Salvation He afforded us through His shed blood would be the overwhelming Uniting Factor to those who accept His Sacrifce. But, by and large, we worship in self-imposed compartments we call "churches," separated by color, nationality, ethnic background, and race. These things ought not to be. But they are. How did thy start? And how can we correct this? How does this reflect on our worship of God? What message, if any, does it send to the unsaved? Or, are any of you happy with this divided status quo, and why? -Romans

I have, on a cd-rom that includes The Bible, The Koran and the Book of Mormon. When I used the hypertext search feature in the Book of Mormon, the word "demon" does not occur; the word, "demons" only occurs one tme in the book of Helaman 13:37: "Behold, we are surrounded by demons, yea, we are encircled about by the angels of him who hath sought to destroy our souls..." When I typed in "devils,", here is what came up: 1 Nephi 11:31: "And he spake unto me again, saying, Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Lamb of God going forth among the children of men. And I beheld multitudes of people who were sick, and who were afflicted with all manner of diseases, and devils and unclean spirits, and the angel spake and showed all these things unto me. And they were healed by the power of the Lamb of God, and the devils and the unclean spirits were cast out." The next "hit" to come up for the word, "devils" is alien to Biblical Christianity. It depicts unrepentant sinners themselves being transformed into demons . It is found in 2 Nephi 9:8-9: "O the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace.! For behold if the flesh should rise no more our spirits must become subject to that angel who fell from before the presence of the Eternal God, and became the devil to rise no more. And our spirits have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself, yea to the being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the childrren of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness." Several more references to casting out devils occur, and then this surprising text that carbon copies the New Testament, word for word. 3 Nephi 14:22: "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?" (The next verses then carbon copy Jesus' sayings about building a house upon a rock.) The last "hit" for the word "devils" is found in Mormon 9:23: It is a direct quote from Mark 16:17-18 in which Jesus lists the signs that shall follow them that believe, including "in my name they shall cast out devils..." In all honesty, I was not previously aware that the Book of Mormon had direct quotations from the Bible. So, thank you. Your question also allowed me to learn some new things.

The only time I am aware of, where a demon is cast out after uttering a name, is the time Jesus cast out the demon(s) calling themselves Legion, "for we are many" (Luke 8:30). I hasten to add a warning about such an activity. Casting out demons, while it can be cited as a Biblical practice, it is not something to "dabble" in. This is dangerous business. Casting out demons is not a Fruit of the Spirit! Consider these two other very important Scriptural notations on the subject of casting out demons: First, the Book of Acts records an event where some people, without authorization or ordination, decided to take it upon themselves to cast out demons, with disastrous results! Notice: "And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded" (Acts 19:14-16). You just don't decide one day to start casting out demons. There is indeed a powerful dark spiritual realm. We would do well to not rattle their cages, especially in a misguided attempt to prove you are "somebody." It did not work for the seven sons of Sceva. In fact, it backfired big time! Second, Jesus said, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:22-23). Casting out, or attempting to cast out devils (or demons) named or not, is NOT a proof of being a Christian. It is not a proof that the person performing these exorcisms has any kind of special anointing from God. Jesus will tell some of these people, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity"!! Very, very serious business this. Romans623

Consider several things, here: First: For the Bible to limit the role of pastor, or being able to teach in church to men, is in no way intended to demean women, any more than when God limited the priesthood exclusively to the Tribe of Levi. Even David and Solomon, Kings of Israel, could not go into the House of God as anything more than worshippers. They could not, by law, offer sacrifices as priests. In fact, when the priest Samuel delayed his coming, King Saul who was a Benjamite, offered a sacrifice as a thank offering for a military victory. Samuel told the King that what he did was very wrong and foolish. The act led to the downfall of the King, and the ultimate loss of a dynasty for Saul. My point is that God makes the rules. It is not our place to question Him, second guess Him, resist Him, ignore Him, oppose Him, or criticize Him. For nearly two thousand years, it was universally understood that the role of pastor and teacher in the Church was ordered by God to be filled by men, as opposed to women. Every denomination: Catholic, Protestant, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, they all had one thing in common: the male was be ordained as Pastor, not the female! It was not until the social upheavals of the 60's, and the rise of the Women's Liberation Movement that women suddenly became restless in their silent roles given them in the Church. Twenty centuries of Biblical precedent was kicked to the curb, and now we see as supposedly acceptable a female clergy. But the Bible says we are not to be be conformed to the World, but Transformed by the Word of God. Women are taking leadership roles in the Church, assuming the responsibilities and title of Pastor: Which would you say was the actual source for this? the Bible or the world? If God was displeased with the King of Israel performing spiritual duties to God, why should I believe now that He is pleased with women in the Church usurping authority over a man, and becoming pastors and teachers in the Church, contrary to God's clear statements on the subject? Romans623

Dear mdenny: With all due respect to you, Ellen White was neither inspired, nor did she have any idea of what she was writing about when she claimed to have seen the Fourth Commandment glowing. Has it ever occurred to you that even though Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, and even though Paul is responsible for writing more of the New Testament than any other author, never ONCE did he instruct, urge, command or suggest in writing that ANYONE at ANYTIME rest on the Seventh Day?? How do you suppose he went about preaching to Gentiles, many, if not most if whom were slaves, and invite them to join a religion where they had to rest - cease - from their master's orders and labor requirements every seventh day!!! Where are his instructions to these slaves for how not to be killed when they insisted on resting? Where does he mention those who were killed or beaten for keeping a Seventh Day Sabbath? Where are his recommendations to masters of slaves who were Christians for making sure they did not order their slaves to work on the Seventh Day Sabbath? The silence of Paul on these critical matters is deafening! The Old Covenant was done away. The laws we are to obey went from being written on tables of stone to being written on our hearts. 2 Corinthians 3:3