mizzdy

In scripture we read of nose rings and not in a bad light either, but that is a far cry from piercings all over the face and whatnot. The markings or tattos in scripture were done for the dead, it was a pagan practice that had gained ground within Gods set apart people. Any time someone takes something and chooses to put Gods name on it its wrong. I'm not entirely sure what He thinks of tats which have His name or scriptures on a person I think thats between the person and God. What I don't like is people getting all uppity about what others have chosen to do and deciding it will stand between them and God, not our call, not anyones call but His. Just my nickels worth. shalom, Mizz

Boy .. are you telling me I must even keep the commands inwardly. No way ! : p So tell me then what are Gods commandments and how do we keep them? How to we walk in the Spirit if not inwardily that produces outwardly signs? We also know that our thoughts are judged as well, lust in the heart according to Yeshua is the same as physically doing the deed, is it not? The laws are not there to save anyone, never were and never will be yet when we come to Him and accept Him what will He be writing on our hearts? I am saying we all must obey Him, we obeyed when we confessed His name and confessed He is the risen Messiah, now what? By the covenant made with Abraham we are shown salvation, by faith and grace yet even Abraham obeyed God and was found righteous because of His faith which produced righteous acts. Is that not obeying the commandments? How then if you do not have to keep the commandments, do you obey God? what is there to obey then if His commandments are no longer something that needs to be followed? Are we all adrift in love of Him with no concrete purpose? In the newer covenant what laws is Jeremiah and the book of Hebrews speaking about, and remember Jeremiah as was Paul Torah observant, they kept His Torah and knew faith was what brought them into a right relationship with God. shalom, Mizz I fully agree with you and was being facetious. Sorry about that. : ) 1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. Ohhhhh ok! I am so sorry! I did misunderstand!

The website is from people who see the 'people behind the scenes puppeting those in front' kinda thing. What is said is true, you start mixing and matching things from this religion and that religion and you get complete falsehoods. There will be a 'religion' dominating the world at the end of the age and it won't be christianity it will be a form of it mixed with the ones gone before, it will appease many in all religions. The Azua street revial came about over the idea that speaking in tongues is the sign of the indwelling of the holy Spirit, something which scripture doesn't say at all. If we were there to witness these events many would be suggesting that it looked much like a Todd Bently show without the special effects and all. There was, I am postive, many who came to belief in Messiah from these things yet we find a lot of the the modern day jumping and wiggling on the ground, howling and barking type stuff comes directly from this revival. The revival did help to break down race barriors, I do believe God uses all kinds of things to reach the lost.

Eternal life is right now. Eternal life begins the minute you are saved. We can know that we have today. Eternal life is a person, really. Jesus is Eternal Life. We are not eternal beings yet, we have that promise by and through Him we will obtain that eternal life when we are resurrected and changed. These bodies still die, still hold diseases, we are still physically part of this fallen world. I know that I am saved, I know that I am promised eternal life and that will come when I am changed out of this physical body but not before. I do see a difference in what is promised and when it is fully given. I do agree with you that Yeshua is eternal and when we are of Him and in Him we also will see that eternal life. shalom, Mizz

Exactly He took that penalty of sin which is death from us and put it upon Himself, we see that in the Abrahamic covenant when God alone walked between the pieces. He did not release us from obedience to His instructions. just took the penalty and gave us a way to be able to walk in them with the help of the Spirit. What laws did He do away with, (set you free from) and what laws did He decide to keep, (obeying what other ones)? Did you know there are more 'laws' spoken of in the NT than in the OT, all made harder to follow also but all the laws found in the NT is found in the OT in one form or another. It is the Spirit that corrects, convicts us yet there is still a basis for it all is there not? And lets remember salvation is not an issue here, that is a free gift given. shalom, Mizz

Boy .. are you telling me I must even keep the commands inwardly. No way ! : p So tell me then what are Gods commandments and how do we keep them? How to we walk in the Spirit if not inwardily that produces outwardly signs? We also know that our thoughts are judged as well, lust in the heart according to Yeshua is the same as physically doing the deed, is it not? The laws are not there to save anyone, never were and never will be yet when we come to Him and accept Him what will He be writing on our hearts? I am saying we all must obey Him, we obeyed when we confessed His name and confessed He is the risen Messiah, now what? By the covenant made with Abraham we are shown salvation, by faith and grace yet even Abraham obeyed God and was found righteous because of His faith which produced righteous acts. Is that not obeying the commandments? How then if you do not have to keep the commandments, do you obey God? what is there to obey then if His commandments are no longer something that needs to be followed? Are we all adrift in love of Him with no concrete purpose? In the newer covenant what laws is Jeremiah and the book of Hebrews speaking about, and remember Jeremiah as was Paul Torah observant, they kept His Torah and knew faith was what brought them into a right relationship with God. shalom, Mizz

Well who thinks that Yeshua has already come and resurrected the elect yet? Abraham was faith, he knew there was going to be a redeemer, God found him righteous and he will be raised, along with all the others who walked in faith in God and the promise of the Messiah, on the day He comes and His angels gather the elect. Eternal life only comes when He returns, changes those in the grave and those alive. And when the millennial reign is over and all is said and done, then comes the forever after.

To me all this is saying that Gods Torah or Gods instructions are what teaches us and if we follow them we will not fall into evil ways.

It seems this will be a movie available sometime next year and it does have an advertisement at the end of this part, but its well worth the 15 or so minutes it takes to watch the video.. there is a part one if anyone is interested on the same site. It is on the emergent church, how doing things in the way of gimics and such to bring in others to Messiah really should not be done, the plain truth of scripture should be spoken and it is that truth that will bring others to Him. shalom, Mizz

Spiritual Laws are concrete laws.. they will last forever, physical laws will not however. Yet we are still physical so we obey physical laws. Is it that God changes with each passing generation that some live by physical laws and some only spiritual ones? Certainly we worship God in the Spirit but we obey Him also in the physical, Yeshua showed us exactly how we can obey God and it was not just spiritual laws He walked in. God calls us to obey Him physically don't you think? And I agree that we are to love God above all else, Due. 6 shows that, shows that we are to obey only Him, deny oneselve and put God above all else. You see I do not see a whole new way of life in the NT but one that God outlined way back when and Yeshua came to show everyone just how that is to be walked out. When we deny ourselves we put Him first which is the first of His commandments. Our old nature is under the burden of the consequences of the whole of the law, when we confess Messiah we are to put away that sinful nature and walk in the Spirit of the law, not a brand new set of instructions at all, we just are not bound to sin any longer as He as set us free from that and now it is up to us to walk in it all. shalom, Mizz

Reap what you sow comes from Hosea 8:7, 10:12 and Job 4:8 and I think there are a few more that show this concept. I do not see 'spiritual laws' I see concrete laws we are to follow, instructions given to show us how to walk a righteous path before God. shalom, Mizz

No Candice, I do not have an issue with pierced ears, but concerning body piercings and tattoos...I don't personally like most of them, I think there is a biblical precedent under Old Covenant Law against them, and I have seen many people with grotesque piercings, and hideous tattoos so I am inclined to generalise and throw everyone in the pot together. Lol...I have far more things to be concerned with than worry why people do them, and I understand and appreciate your reasons...I also don't believe they all have demonic motives...but I do think it is a present cultural influence, and generally speaking up to now, it has been the domain of the rebellious and the disenchanted who want to make some sort of statement in their flesh, or those to whom tattoos and piercings are part of a life-style they have adopted. One of the ways I have learnt to look at things over the years is to realise where things originated and why....therefore if I see something as originating from gangs (hellsangels) and pagan tribal culture, I am inclined to think of it as 'unwholesome' even if we are able to sugar-coat it and make it more palatable. Would I make an issue of it? No, probably not...and as Nigel has pointed out, it is what is in a persons heart that matters, or has predominance...but I think many people who have piercings and tattoos themselves, would be hard pressed to explain to their children why they shouldn't get loads of tattoos and piercings and have horrid things done to their 'bits' as well. I suppose I just think it crosses a line and can bring things into ones life that it is better not to have to deal with in the first place. As a parting shot, I also think they can present a health hazard either through infection, or through catching them on something. I think I have run over my 2 pence worth, and normally I wouldn't have anything to say on the matter...but as it is a discussion board I thought I would stick my oar in anyway. The Torah only speaks against markings and such when it comes to the dead, Lev. 19:28 says not to mark or tattoo oneselve for the dead. The idea of piercings from what I can gather from the Torah is that even the woman had nose piercings, there are 4 verses that even say the woman had their nose pierced. I am right there with you about some of the tats and piercings though, some are just really out there. I was so thankful when my daughter had to take some of hers out for work. I have to resent your line about the hellsangels! lol I actually know many of the original angels in CA and not all of them have tats except for the ones from the service, some never even got the angels logo on them! Yet I do have to agree theres a lot of the gang element to many, and people go crazy with tats and piercings. I have two tats, never remember they are there unless someone sees one and asks about it, and the best part of it all is when He comes again they will disappear along with all my diseases, I truly am looking forward to that new body He will give me! shalom, Mizz

From 30 years ago? wow hmm If its on his heart that he should go back and tell that person then I think thats what he should do. As for restitution that can happen if he feels he should do that, it also can be a huge can of worms also. I only stole something once in my life so many years ago the place is no longer open I could not make restitution even if I wanted to do so. If he is wanting to do this and there is no avenue for him to set things straight then maybe he could give the amount to charity, buy a homeless person a meal or blanket. I would ask him what he thinks God is showing him, and have him pray earnestly as to what he should do. shalom, Mizz

The word "Tribulation" in any bible, concordance or bible dictionary means or is speaking of a trial as in affliction IE the testing of ones resalve or commitment. The word Wrath in any bible, concordance or bible dictionary means and is speaking of the "Punishment of God". The word for tribulation is thlipsis it means tribulation, affliction, trouble, anguish, persecution, pressing together and pressure, Messiah spoke of the megathlipsis that will come upon us all at the end of the age. Wrath is orge/orgay and the word thumos is used also, it means wrath, fierceness, vengeance, indignation, anger exhibited in punishment or used in punishment. Thumos is wrath, fierceness, indignation, passion, anger, anger forthwith boiling up and soon subsiding.... They are different in meanings and usages. The tribulation is different than the wrath and we are not appointed to Gods wrath. I can come up with at least a dozen or so off the top of my head that most use for wrath thats only meant for tribulation but for the pretribbers nothing will do to take away their sense of comfort to think they are going to be whisked away so God can punish the Jews, which is what most pretribbers tell me anyhow that it is the Jews who are left behind so they can be punished. Sorry if that offends anyone out there just writing what I have been told over the dozen or so years people have been trying to convince me of a pretrib rapture and that theres two separate bodies and now the really silly theory that God has a wife and Messiah has a bride. shalom, Mizz You go girl. LOL Pretribbers believe in what I call "Escape Theoligy". By the way where did you get that info about the words tribulation and wrath? Strongs. I have some articles on the subject, the feasts line up the whole plan of God and His reconciliation/redemption, if your ever interested just send me a pm and I will send them to you. shalom, Mizz

Jesus managed to be a light with a drink in his hand and ate with those who took the Lord's name in vain Matthew 9:10 King James Version (KJV) 10And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. Luke 22:20 20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. There is a vast differece between having wine with a meal and going out drinking with some gentile buddies. Messiah nor the apostles were walking around with a wineskin full of wine while they declared the news of the coming kingdom. And yes certainly every single person on this earth will hear a cuss word or two as well as other things yet it does not mean we should be allowing those things from our mouths or into our lives. There are good people, good believers who can listen to cuss words, watch some questionable movies who are not in danger of falling prey to the entrapment behind it, there are also others who are in danger of being around all that and falling prey to it. The best course of action we can take is to avoid for ourselves the things we know are a danger, we also should avoid going out drinking and having a grand time with gentile people. By our actions we are judged by all those around us, you can say thats right or wrong but its the way God set it up, His chosen elect should portray all the godliness Yeshua did, and we know that Messiah never got drunk, with anyone, nor did He go around cussing and all that nonsense. By our actions, our deeds, our words, through our lives we are to be set apart for the world to see His glory and grace and by that others would want to have the shalom and blessing only He can give. And frankly one can not shine His light when they are stumbling around drunk with the unsaved or cussing like a sailor either. shalom, Mizz

Gentiles means nations also, a tribe of unknown peoples, it also describes the promises to Ephraim that he and his offspring would become just that. Gentiles are also considered pagan to God, not part of His covenant or promises but that by faith and belief in the Messiah the genitles are grafted into Israel. Hosea shows how the northern kingdom were scattered into the gentile nations, forgetting who they are and thus become the gentiles themselves no longer knowing where they came from, yet we see God grafting them back into His tree, His covenant when they return, repent and confess that Messiah is the son of God. Romans has nothing to do with a rapture, pretrib or otherwise. shalom, Mizz

The word "Tribulation" in any bible, concordance or bible dictionary means or is speaking of a trial as in affliction IE the testing of ones resalve or commitment. The word Wrath in any bible, concordance or bible dictionary means and is speaking of the "Punishment of God". The word for tribulation is thlipsis it means tribulation, affliction, trouble, anguish, persecution, pressing together and pressure, Messiah spoke of the megathlipsis that will come upon us all at the end of the age. Wrath is orge/orgay and the word thumos is used also, it means wrath, fierceness, vengeance, indignation, anger exhibited in punishment or used in punishment. Thumos is wrath, fierceness, indignation, passion, anger, anger forthwith boiling up and soon subsiding.... They are different in meanings and usages. The tribulation is different than the wrath and we are not appointed to Gods wrath. I can come up with at least a dozen or so off the top of my head that most use for wrath thats only meant for tribulation but for the pretribbers nothing will do to take away their sense of comfort to think they are going to be whisked away so God can punish the Jews, which is what most pretribbers tell me anyhow that it is the Jews who are left behind so they can be punished. Sorry if that offends anyone out there just writing what I have been told over the dozen or so years people have been trying to convince me of a pretrib rapture and that theres two separate bodies and now the really silly theory that God has a wife and Messiah has a bride. shalom, Mizz

As to my Jewish brethren they are both, Messianic and those within Judaism and none of them will tell you that they are going to be whisked off to heaven while the rest are being punished and if any of your Jewish friends or organizations believe that then they do not know what scriptures said. Not one of my Jewish brother would endorse an org. that tells anyone God has a wife and Yeshua a bride, all my Messianic friends will tell you that you are grafted into an already existing body, to a body already brought forth at Sinai and it is by faith alone that we are in this body. None of them would endorse the website you mentioned since most believe its just a place to get Jews to convert to christianity. The idea that Hosea is about God having a wife and Yeshua a bride is frankly absurd, Hosea shows God sending Israel out because of idolatry and then bringing them back to Him when they come back to the understanding of who they are in Him. Hosea is about all who come back to Him in faith, after all it is about a restoration, a reconcillation to Him and not a brand new nothing. Posting walls of scriptures do not change Gods simple message, Israel is His, we are grafted into Israel when we come to Him in faith and confess His name. Theres no gentile church with a convenant, but as we are told in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8 that Judah and Israel and their companions are in the covenant. As far as the tribulation you are stuck in a man made thinking, the tribulation will be for all of us, the wrath is not. There is no whisking away of anyone till the last trumpet is sounded after the plagues and before the wrath or bowl judgment. You even know that Noah was not taken off this earth for safety, so why would God not do the same for us during the bowl judgments, and hmm thats exactly what He will do take us to a place of safety while He pours His wrath upon those men and woman, nations and wicked after the tribulation. If you wish to think that you will be taken somewhere at the start of the tribulation I pray hard that you do not lose your faith when the tribulation comes upon us all. I rarely ever get involved with topics like this because most every single person has their mind made up for them by their pastors, by the prophecy teachers who are ranking in the money on all these theories, which are not provided for in the scriptures. A complete reading of the feasts of God, along with a straightforward reading of all the prophecies are clear, the saints/elect are here during the great tribulation, and then the angel comes to gather the elect before the bowl judgments, sorry you cannot see this. shalom, Mizzdy

Any pretribbers want to explain their interpretation here? None can explain it other than what has been regurgitated over and over by those wishing a quick escape or so it seems. The fact that a pretrib rapture was not in any writings of the apostles, ancient sages didnt write about it either, and that it is a notion concocted in 1830ish doesn't seem to bother anyone either. The pre-trib rapture was grapped ahold of and ran with in the churches for a lot of reasons, some seem to just want to see God as some nice guy who would not harm anyone and will come and whisk all the 'true' believers off to heaven so they can watch the wicked and Jews being tormented. Also the idea that the word tribulation and wrath are completely different doesn't seem to register either, different meanings and used much differently by the writers of the scriptures. The timeline of the end times is also corrupted when it comes to the pre-tribbers also, how can the saints/elect be sealed on earth if they are in heaven? When we see the saints on earth during the trib, protected for the last few plagues and then changed and taken to Him as the final bowl judgments are put upon those still left, and that we also see those who have come out of the great trib who have washed their robes and made them white is ignored also. Its prophecy teachers who keep writing books, who keep putting out articles saying they are correct, that keep this division going. In the end it can be a dangerous theology to have, imagine those who do not get whisked away when the great trib starts who will lose faith in Him because they didnt get to go to heaven before it all happens. Sorry to go on about it all! shalom, Mizz

Considering I know many Jewish folk and speak to many regularly more than a few of them are rabbis, I believe I know a bit about what they think and not one Jewish person would ever agree that God has a wife and the the Messiah has a bride. Matter of fact not one would ever agree that God would ever have a wife nor that the Messiah will be bethrothed to anyone either thats just not something thought about. You must be aware by now that God, Yeshua has only one bride, one body, one new man and to say that God has a wife and Yeshua has a bride you and all those who would say that make God out to be a polyamist. There is not two separate anything. I also do not hang on every word men like Jack Kelly write, I completely agree with scriptures that the saints are on this earth till the wrath of God comes about, the saints are sealed, the two witness come on the scene and they are killed, right after the last trumpet we are changed and raised to meet Him, the the bowl judgments come to those still alive who did recieve the mark. Also how can the angels mark the elect on earth if they are in heaven? we read that in Rev. 9 Read it for yourself, not through the lense of men. I would like to hear in your own words, with scriptures to back it up that God is married and that His Son is engaged to another body of set apart elect. If anything God divorced the northern kingdom of Israel, gave them up to become forgotten in the nations where they were scattered and only when the Messiah came were they reached out to to bring them home, a work Paul took up by the way. You will have to prove there are two bodies of Messiah. shalom, Mizzdy

If you have a bride for Messiah and a wife of God you have two separate bodies, two redemption plans, two of everything yet God calls us one body, one new man, one period. Replacement theology is a broad topic but over all it is the taking the idea that some entity called the 'church' has taken the 'Jews'. Where may I ask is the covenant with the gentiles? Where does it say anywhere in scripture that God made a covenant with the gentiles? I really want an answer to that question in all my years of asking not one person can answer it. Certainly we are Abrahams seed if we are confessing Messiah because Messiah is the seed promised. The newer covenant is made of two houses, read that in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8, a covenant to the house of Israel and their companions and to Judah and their companions, those companions are the grafted in gentiles now in covenant with God. There is not separate church, God is not going to take one group out and then set out to bring judgment and punishment on the Jews! That is utter nonsense. Frankly I do see two groups, one who is at the wedding feast and one that stands outside and wails about all the good deeds they did. Not one person will be saved without the confession of His name and who He is, theres no doubt about that at all. Paul was sent out to the lost, he also knew that those long scattered to the nations of the world were Israel also, just as the prophecy in Hosea states, lost to who they are, generations and generations who have been in the world so long they have no clue to who they are. Those called by God will listen and obey, then they will spread His word wherever they go. Despite the best efforts of all these prophecy teachers and the twisting about of scriptures and that fact that this rapture theory did not come about till around 1830, theres no scriptures, no apostlic writings, ancient writings that ever suggest we are raptured out of this world before the great tribulation happens. Israel did not reject Yeshua, the pharisees, the ruling parties, etc. did. The apostles, almost every single person in that group that Yeshua raised that the apostles taught were Jews, were already following Gods commandments and knew the Messiah would come and they accepted their Messiah. The 'church' was not a bunch of gentiles learning new ways of doing anything. These arguments, these debates about rapture and who the body of Messiah is are the reason our Jewish brethren do not see the Messiah, they are foreign to scriptures, they do not portray Him who scriptures tell us. Every single christian I know gets all up in arms about how islam makes Yeshua out to be yet christians all over the world take the Jewish Messiah, the one written about throughout the entire bible and make Him into some greek/roman looking guy who threw out the very core of scriptures so everyone can feel good about Him and what He expects from His called out assembly. As I said there are two groups, one in the wedding supper and one outside, but not one Jewish and one gentile, that is what is at the very core of replacement theology. God has one body, one called out assembly, one group of saints, one body that has white robes. The tribulation is not for the Jews but for all those who claim to know Him, for those who are on the fence, who will come to know Him, its a time of refining the body of Messiah, to separate the wheat and tares. shalom, Mizz

Ever been to the Santa Monica pier, or any of those places in So. Cal? you'll find that more than one might think people, old and young alike have no clue what has transpired over the last 100 years in this world. Having used to be a beach bum I can attest to the fact that many of those who come to those places dont have a clue as to who hitler was, part of those interviews were done at a college, thankfully a few of those kids knew the answer. And what gets me about that Steve guy, think thats his name, is he is just one in a long line of hitler lovers I have witnessed first hand down at the beaches and elsewhere. I know who those other people were, yet hitlers main focus was to eliminate the undesireables, the ones that didn't match up to his ideal world. I do love the way Comfort brings the conversation back to the unborn, back to how it is only through Him we can be saved.

So your saying God has two groups of people, two means of salvation? And yes it has everything to do with Israel, who enters the gates of the new Jerusalem? God does not have two groups of people, the tribulation is not for 'Israel' so He can punish them, that is complete replacement theology at its core.

Right now there is, at least with the group I'm interacting with. But I appreciate your POV; perhaps I can mention this to them? But this is also why the older believers need to open their arms to the influx of teenagers coming in and gently guiding them out of their old lifestyles - most of them know nothing of the Bible, etc. these days. From my point of view Neb, that is the problem when the church. Older people really don't know the Bible really well. They have been going to church on Sundays for so many years and listening to the same sermons year after year that the entire Bible isn't really heard or read. Personally I've learned more studying to post on threads here in the past 8 years than I ever learned in Church. Thats the sentiments of most people I know, young and old. Its a shame, but we are held accountable for what we choose to listen to, who we listen to and that includes what we know of His Word. shalom, Mizz

I do not hold to a pretrib rapture of anykind, not saying you or anyone else has to agree with that. As I said we have been in a tribulation since Adam was kicked out of the garden, the great tribulation spoken of is not the wrath of God, the bowl judgments are His wrath. During the great trib we all will be here, this is the time of Gods refinement of His bride, casting off those who are lukewarm, those who truly have not given themselves fully over to His will. But to think that we all are going to escape this great tribulation is not in scripture, no matter how many times someone can turn and use scriptures to find some escape avenue. Just as God lifted up Noah, or how God kept those safe in Goshen as the angel of death passed over, God will protect us during the time the angels are pouring out the judgments on those who have not bowed to Him. shalom, Mizz I agree mizzdy. I believe we are here & protected during the wrath because after the 6th vial/bowl is poured out, we see in Rev 16:15, " Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." This indicates to me that the saints are still here. I believe we are protected by being "in Christ" How can we be protected if the Restrainer is gone? Would our Lord leave us without the Holy Spirit? No groom would leave his bride at the mercy of his enemy why would Christ? Are you men better than the Lord or are you women willing to settle for anything less in a groom? I certainly am not. My Bridegroom knows the danger that I face with the Holy Spirit removed and He will come and take me from the harm His enemy would inflict on me. I know this for an absolute certainty and not a shadow of a doubt. The Spirit resides within us, why would God remove that from us? Where exactly does it say that it is the Holy Spirit that restrains? Yeshua will come for His bride, we will be taken to Him, protected by Him during the wrath that is poured out but we will be here during the great tribulation. By the blood of Yeshua we are saved from Gods wrath. shalom, Mizz