Yahsway

Amen and Amen cardcaptor, we worship Jesus and him alone. Not an icon or relic. The cross in those days was the emblem of the Babylonians who worshipped Tammuz, the cross-god. But crosses have been around for many years before Jesus and they have absolutely nothing to do with God or His Christ. The phrase "pick up your cross and follow Jesus" does not mean to pick up your cross and worship it. The cross was an emblem of suffering and shame. In the 15th century B.C.E. the Vestal Virgins of pagan Rome wore crosses around their necks and the Egyptians as well. The Buddhists and numerous other sects in India also used the sign of the cross as a mark on their foreheads. The cross was also widely worshipped or regarded as a sacred emblem of Bacchus, the Babylonian Messiah, for he is represented with a head-band covered with crosses. In the 1945 Encyclopedia Americana states "The symbol of the cross was used thruout the world since the later Stone Age; Greek pre-Christian crosses were the tau and swastika; the cross first became a symbol of Christianity during the reign of Constantine." The 1965 World book Encyclopedia vol. VII states- "Cross forms were used as symbols, religious or otherwise, long before the Christian era in almost every part of the world. This symbol had a wide diffusion before the Christian era in Europe, Asia, and America, and is commonly thought to have been an emblem of the sun or fire; and hence of life."

Smalcald, thanks for that. I agree with what you say. Here are a few quotes from just a few of our "Church Fathers" that also agree. Methodist John Wesley- "But, the Moral Law contained in the 10 commandments, and enforced by the prophets, he (Christ) did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken.... Every part of this Law must remain in force upon ALL mankind, and in ALL ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangable relation to each other." Dewight L. Moody- "The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This 4th commandment begins with the word 'remember', showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the Law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can man claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other 9 are still binding?" Presbyterian T. C. Blake wrote- "The Sabbath is a part of the Decalogue-The Ten Commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution. Until, therfore, it can be shown that the whole moral Law has been repealed, the Sabbath WILL stand...The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath." Anglican/Episcopal Bishop Seymour wrote "We have made the change from the 7th day to the 1st day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the Authority of the One Holy Catholic Church." Disciples of Christ-Alexander Campbell wrote- "The 1st day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the 1st day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any imitation of such a change." Ausburg Confession of Faith written by Melanchthon and approved by Martin Luther wrote- "They (Roman Catholic) refer to the Sabbath Day, as having been CHANGED into the Lords Day. contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the Power of the Church, since it has Dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"

Mankind was never "required" to become a Jew for Salvation. not in the OT or NT. God "saved" the mixed-multitude" that left from Egypt as well. This was before God gave them His laws. Yeshua himself said "And OTHER sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be ONE flock and one shepherd." (John 10:16) John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life." As for the Sabbath Acts 15:20- but we (Jerusalem council) write to them (The Gentiles) to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses has had thru out many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the Synagogues every Shabbat. Are these 4 requirements a blanket exemption from the rest of the Torah? Are these the only 4 prohibitions that apply to Gentiles? Not so! For absent are the commandments such as one honoring ones parents, and the prohibition against murder ect.. The 4 requirments given to the Gentiles by the Jerusalem council are not presented as if they are a Replacement for the commandments of the Torah. They are simply 4 basic requirements set forth by the Jerusalem Council to make sure that the Gentile believers were not participating in the idolatry of their local temples. As for the rest of the Torah laws, James neither binds their observence upon the Gentiles, nor does he exempt them from them. Instead he says that "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath." The Torah was read in the synagouge every week. At the time of the Jerusalem council, Jewish and Gentile believers were still assembling in the local synagouges every Sabbath. And in those synagouges the Torah was read every week. So as to Gentiles and the written Torah, James says that the Gentile believers WILL HEAR the Torah. They will read it aloud every week. They wil HEAR it preached every week. The most obvious expectation is that by Hearing it read and hearing it preached will lead to doing it. So James simply says (in my paraphrase) Lets not make things difficult for these Gentiles coming to the faith. Lets have them do a some basic things so they don't get tossed aout from fellowship, and as for the rest of the Torah (instructions) they will be HEARING it every week. Acts 20 7- Speaks of Paul and the disciples being together to "break bread" (this was not communion) this was an actual supper. Breaking bread in Hebrew thought is to have a meal together, which they did just after the Sabbath, when the sun goes down on Saturday and the evening starts the next day or the 1st day of the week, Sunday. This is still done today by the Hebrews. Notice verse 8 says There were many LAMPS in the upper room where they gathered together. This was the evening after Sabbath which in the Hebrew calander days is the 1st day of the week. Shabbat is over, the sun has gone down, the 1st day of the week has started, it is dark from the sun going down. You would know this in western thought as Saturday night. If you look in this same chapter in verse 6, you will also discover that Paul still kept the Feasts of the Lord for he did not sail away on his journey until AFTER the Days of Unleavened Bread. 1 corinth. 16:2 Paul wants the believers to lay aside something on the 1st day of the week for a collection for the saints in Jerusalem. Why lay it aside on the first day of the week? Remember the money changers in the synagogue? Remember Yeshua said that the Lords house is a house of prayer? Business matters should be done on the first day of the week. The Sabbath is a day of rest and reflection. No where in this chapter and verse does it say that Sunday was to be a day of gathering together to worship (although everyday is fine) and nowhere does it insinuate that the Sabbath has been done away with for the Sabbath day was not a day for business practices and Paul understood that. Thats why he tells them to store it up on the 1st day of the week. Remember Acts 21:24 ...and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you (Paul) are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. There is nothing said about "circumcision" in the flesh in the 10 commandments. God has always wanted a circumcised Heart according to Duet. 30:6 You are right in that the ordinances (the penalty) has been nailed to the cross for Jesus paid our penalty. But the 10 commandments-ALL of them are still in effect today.

The law was given not only to the Jews but to the "mixed multitude" who joined themselves with them AFTER they (the Jews AND the mixed multitude were Redeemed from bondage and slavery in Egypt. Numbers 15:15-16 Notice they were redeemed first, then they recieved Gods commandments. God did not tell them they first had to follow His commandments, they were redeemed from Pharoh first. Mankind was never required to become a "Jew" for salvation ever. Neither in the OT or the NT. Gods laws applied to both Jews and non-Jews. The Torahs application to both Jew and non-Jew is "perpetual". It does not say "until Messiah comes" or any other qualification. Perpetual means forever. The 10 commandments were not given as 10 steps to salvation but rather they were given to a people already redeemed from bondage. Living as God instructs us is and has always been a response to His Grace. The Torah NEVER earned anyone their salvation. Right standing with God has always come thru faith in God and His promises and thru His Annointed One. But Jesus death on the cross did not do away with the Sabbath Day. It is perpetual. Jesus death on the cross did not give me the freedom to murder, lie, steal, commit adultry, dishonor my parents and it certainly did not do away with the first commandment of the 10. We cannot pick and choose which of the 10 commandments are in effect today because they all are. Of course the Catholic church has always said that the 4th commandment and the one about graven images are done away with and the Protestants just want to leave out the 4th commandment. Makes one wonder. Sunday was/is a universal day set-aside by mankind (Constantine) as a univeral day of worship and rest. And it was done more for political than religous reasons. Thats my 2 cents and oh Yea, Shabbat Shalom

I know what you mean about the "stranger" part. I remember on our honneymoon driving to Nashville I was looking at him thinking "what have I done? This man could be a hatchit murderer for all I know". Ha! We still laugh about it to this day! I asked him what he was thinking when he ran into that door hitting his head and he said he thought I was so beautiful that all he wanted to do was get out of the room without tripping or hitting the door which is exactly what he did. Well of course I did forget to mention that he was so handsome , yada yada And later we both revealed to each other how we had both been praying to God for the right mate. I certainly dont advocate anyone else getting married that quick but hey, its worked out grand for us. We have 4 wonderful children, but no grandchildren yet. We both love the Lord, we are music ministers, and we are probably more in love with each other today than when we first met.

Leonard, what are we gonna do with you? Just tooo funny! Ha! Well. lets see, I met my husband on a Friday the 13th while as a patient in the hospital. He came in my room to draw my blood and when he left the room he ran smack into the door. It was soo funny and I fell in love with him right then and there. 3 weeks later we were married and have been married for 28 years.

Arthur, you really need to do a study on "The Lords Day", for it is like no other day, who will be able to stand on that day? Malachi 3- Malachi in the hebrew means "My Messenger" Revelation has a lot to say about "The Lords Day", it was Revealed to John. It is not a day of Worship. Joel 2:11 says "for the Day of the Lord is great and Very terrible; Who can endure it? As for the Day of Pentecost which was/is called Shavout in the Hebrew, was/is a celebration every year by the Jews which was 50 days after the day of First Fruits which came after the Passover every year and ALWAYS fell on a Sunday or the first day of the week. This was not nothing "new", what was new was the giving of the Holy Spirit on that day we have in Acts 2. As for the Sabbath heres a quote from "Faith of our Fathers, 92nd edition., p.89, the quote being from Cardinal Gibbons- "You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. Yet scriptures enforces the religious observence of Saturday, a day which WE never sanctify." The Archbishop of Reggio at the Council of Trent 1562 set all hesitation aside by openly declaring that tradition stood above Scripture. In the book "Cannon and Tradition on page 263 he writes- "The authority of the Church could therefore NOT be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed the Sabbath into Sunday, NOT by the Command of Christ, but by its OWN authority." The Sabbath day which the Lord sanctified and said would be forever is still the 7th day of the week. To quote the book "History of the Church" third period A.D. 311-590- Hessey- "Constantine is the FOUNDER, in part at least, of the civil observance of Sunday, by which alone the religious observance of it in the church could be made UNIVERSAL and could be Properly Secured. He enjoined the observance, or rather forbade the public desecration of Sunday, not under the name of Sabbatum, BUT under its old astrological and heathen title, Deis Solis, familiar to ALL his subjects, so that the LAW was as applicable to the worshippers of Hercules, Apollo and Mithras, as to the Christians. There is no reference whatsoever in HIS LAW either to the fourth commandment OR to the Resurrection of Christ. Besides, he expressly exempted the country districts, where paganism still prevailed, from the prohibition of labor, and thus avoided every appearance of injustice."

Well said Leonard, I couldn't agree more.

You have to start at verse one in chapter 2. It says that the heavens and the earth and all the host of them were finished and that God rested on the 7th day and blessed the 7th day. then verse 4 in chapter 2 says= This is the "History"of the heavens and the earth when they were created ect.... Chapter 2 is just going over all that God had done in the first 6 days of creation.

Candi770, Here is the web site to Yeshuat Yisrael- www.yeshuatyisrael.com It is located in Franklin, Tn in the Nashville metro area. Ken Gibbs is the Rabbi. Shalom

Candi770, I live near the Nashville area and have attended Yeshuet Yisrael (spell?), Is this the same one you found? Shalom

If you want to know how Noah gathered all those animals then rea the scriptures. Gen 6:20 "Of the birds after their kind,of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind WILL COME TO YOU TO KEEP THEM ALIVE. 6:9 two by two they (the animals) went into the ark TO Noah. Noah did not have to "manage to gather all those animals", They came to Noah.

billielovesdarrin, To answer your question about the vultures and the dead bodies and where they come into play, read Revelation 19:17. It is the supper of God. The verse about the 2 men in bed is referring to the threshing floor bed, not a literal bed you sleep in. Two women grinding at the mill, two men in bed (threshing floor) ect... These verses are referring to the Harvest. The seperation of the wheat from the chaff/Tares. This is done at His coming. when He(Yeshua) Reveals Himself. This key words are "in that Day when the Son of Man is revealed."

If we look at verse 30 in that chapter it says- "Even so will it be in the DAY when the Son of Man is REVEALED." This is not the rapture as some might speculate as Jesus is Revealing Himself to all men on the earth and the wheat and the tares are seperated at that time. There will be some going into the Kingdom who will not taste death but see the Son of Man coming in the clouds back to earth to set up His kingdom that He will rule for a thousand years.

Very insightful jscoleman! I knew there was more to that scripture as no one here has mentioned what God's Name is. "You shall not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain" Our God has a name? I have heard people use the Name "Jesus", Gods Son in vain before. Interesting.

I bet you couldn't go to their arab countries and shout out that they are "dogs". This just sickens me. Shiloh, anti-semitism is so much on the rise its scary. I seriously am thinking that Jewish people are not safe anywhere in this world except for in Israel. Doesn't scripture talk about another "exodus" greater than the first one? I read somewhere recently where Jewish people in Europe were buying houses in Israel, site unseen thru real estate companies in Israel because they see whats coming and they are going to leave and return to Israel. Do you possibly see this might happen also with American Jewish citizens? Shalom and thanks for the heads up with posting that article.

No biggie bro, just having a little fun. Be blessed!!

Sarcasm dear st. worm, sheesh, you are wound toooo tight. Lighten up! Shalom

Actually the President of Proctor and Gamble tithes to and backs the Reverend Sun Yung Moon, not the devil. Ha!

correct me if i am wrong, but isn't "Jesus" the Latin term taken from the Greek "Iesous" which is taken from the Hebrew "Yeshua"?

A Multitude from the Great Tribulation Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could Number, of ALL nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands crying with a loud voice, saying "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" verse 13 Then one of the elders answered saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes and where do they come from?" verse 14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know," So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the Great Tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb, ect....

was the rapture imminent before say 1948?

I have been following this thread for some time and thank you George for your faithfulness and thank you also Shiloh for your in- depth study of Holy Writ and your faithfulness as well. I would like to add something if I may. I see death as a sweet savour unto God. Let me explain. When we drink the fruit of the vine and eat the matza we are proclaiming Yeshua's death until He comes back, This is a memorial. When we pick up our OWN cross/die to self, this must be a sweet savour unto God's nostrils. When the sacrafices in the OT where done with a pure and contrite heart, the smoke from those offerings I believe were also sweet before our God. There will be flesh here to worship and be taught during the millinium, the sacrafices then are to be for a memorial for those who will be living in the flesh during that time and for all those born during that time. It will be as a memorial, to remember the Great sacrifice made by Yeshua. and yes, He will rule from Jerusalem with a rod of iron.

"Reward time with God the Father"? Exactly when does God the Father according to scripture dwell with men again?

You must read Rev 19 in its entire context starting at verse 1 How did the wife make herself ready? Rev 19:7 The answer is in Rev 19:2