HB to 3 men who changed the modern world

[nebula]

Shaping the Modern World

By Chuck Colson

2/12/2009

Mendelssohn, Lincoln, and Darwin

Two hundred years ago, three boys were born a few days apart in Germany, England, and the United States. All of them would become renowned and affect the lives of not only their contemporaries but of generations to come.

One would produce great works of art and revive interest in long-forgotten artistic treasures. One would lead his nation to a

[Celtic Warrior]

And of course no one has ever been killed because the words of Jesus were misused, so by the application of logic of the person posting this, that would mean that every death done "in the name of Jesus" must be laid at the feet of Jesus Himself. And last reckoning I've seen the number of people who have been murdered in the name of Jesus far surpasses any other cause of people finding reasons to kill each other.

Oh, hypocrisy how ugly and jaded thy view is. Perhaps if Christians would practice Christ's teachings instead of hate, fear, intolerance, gossip, slander, murder, bigotry, prejudice and all the other foul things that are done in the name of the Prince of Peace, perhaps, just perhaps, the paradise God originally designed might just be a bit closer for all of us

[ollkiller]

I don't get that article at all. Anyhow. My view is.

Stalin was a murdering (insert expletive). Wouldn't have mattered if he was athiest or buddist. Just liked control and power and used death and torture camps to get it done.

Whoa surprisingly Hitler was the same.

Whoa spanish inquisation, people wanting to control other people and using death to achieve this. Remember people power and control.

Notice a common denominator. Religion or athiesm does not make someone kill millions. It's because he is a murdering (insert expletive). Religion or athiesm is a nice easy label of an excuse to use.

I like LAMP.

[nebula]

I take it you guys never had a "World Views" class, or the like?

[nebula]

Well, in my college "World Views" was a required course and not a choice.

But to explain, by the dictionary a world view is: "a comprehensive view of the world and human life" (source).

The gist of this is that how you view "the world" (what life is, what it's about, what we at our core are about, who or what defines morality, etc.) - i.e. does it have naturalistic base? a theological base? (which can be subdivided into the particular theologies) a nihilistic base? an existential base? - influences how one interprets and interacts with everyone and everything.

Or to put it simply: "it refers to the framework of ideas and beliefs through which an individual interprets the world and interacts with it." (source)

So, the point the OP is presenting has to do with the impact of evolutionary thought as a world view basis (if you will) on one's actions, or the justifications for those actions.

If humans are nothing more than animals, why treat a mass of humans any different than a mass of animals? If our existence is about adaptability and survivability, then why not eliminate those with genetic expressions that disfavor survivability of the species?

And no, this isn't a denial of individual choices nor an individual's bad character. For anyone can use any argument to their own ends - for we are so good at self-deception. I've heard and read enough from the the writer of this article to know that he knows this - and even teaches this himself.

In this presentation, however, he is looking at one element of belief and thought and highlighting the impacts of this belief as a "world view" and pointing out the consequences of this thought on action.

[nebula]

Oh, hypocrisy how ugly and jaded thy view is. Perhaps if Christians would practice Christ's teachings instead of hate, fear, intolerance, gossip, slander, murder, bigotry, prejudice and all the other foul things that are done in the name of the Prince of Peace, perhaps, just perhaps, the paradise God originally designed might just be a bit closer for all of us

BTW, CW -

If your judgment is against the writer of this article, you should check into how many people have "turned from death unto life" because of him and his ministry.

[Celtic Warrior]

Oh, hypocrisy how ugly and jaded thy view is. Perhaps if Christians would practice Christ's teachings instead of hate, fear, intolerance, gossip, slander, murder, bigotry, prejudice and all the other foul things that are done in the name of the Prince of Peace, perhaps, just perhaps, the paradise God originally designed might just be a bit closer for all of us

BTW, CW -

If your judgment is against the writer of this article, you should check into how many people have "turned from death unto life" because of him and his ministry.

You would be right, never heard of him, but I will also remind you that Jesus Himself says there will be many who THINK they are serving God who He will say to them "I never knew you". And I'm reminded of the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. Of those who thought they were doing 'all the right things' only to have Jesus evict them from His presence, all the while He was calling into His banquet those who couldn't figure out when they had done the good things.

In point of fact, the OP is being selective about his "facts" as most are wont to do. He choses facts that support his position and while conveniently ignoring facts that oppose his conclusions. Worldviews notwithstanding, more people have been killed in the name of Christ than for any other single cause in history, so the OP's point is irrelevant (Yes I am a Christian and NO I am not putting down Jesus, by any means). People kill because they are tainted self centered souls. They don't need reasons or justifications, though they find them all to often, and more often than not, in the name of RELIGION. It would be very safe bet to say that the number of people killed over Religion FAR exceeds those killed by 'naturalist views', and the next largest reason for killing is PATRIOTISM, Not NATURALISM. The point and evidence is nothing more than a "let's feel good about ourselves by putting down others' viewpoint while ignoring the evil that hides under the guise of Christian. We would all be better off if Christians would concentrate on living as Christ lived (which does NOT include pointing fingers, putting down others, getting all judgmental, condemning, creating fear and hate, misdirection, misinformation, etc). Jesus calls us to FOLLOW HIM and you don't see Him pointing fingers or getting mad at anybody EXCEPT THE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE of His day. Maybe you should start reading there and figure out why, THEN come back and comment about Naturalism and such.

evil is evil and hides in many disguises, including wearing the guise of Christian. But you can tell by their fruits, the Bible says clearly, and selectively picking your facts is just another form of deceit (called Spin), which means LIE. And Liars are clearly not included in the list of good fruits of the Spirit, but instead are in the other list, the deeds of the Flesh.

And hypocrisy includes doing what you attack others for doing. It's a double standard, where you condemn others and put them down for their actions/attitudes and yet puff yourself up when you do the very same evils.

[nebula]

Fair enough, but while you are pointing a finger at Chuck Coleson, you should also pay attention to the three pointing back at yourself.

You have made a judgment against him based on one article.

Is that righteous?

I highly recommend you do a google search on him, find out about him and what he does and what he's about. Then if you have a problem with this presentation, come back and speak it in perspective.

OK?

[oak]

Shaping the Modern World

By Chuck Colson

2/12/2009

Mendelssohn, Lincoln, and Darwin

Nebula,

I see a bad distinction between you and Colsen. You have mind; he has none. Historically

[Celtic Warrior]

Fair enough, but while you are pointing a finger at Chuck Coleson, you should also pay attention to the three pointing back at yourself.

You have made a judgment against him based on one article.

Is that righteous?

I highly recommend you do a google search on him, find out about him and what he does and what he's about. Then if you have a problem with this presentation, come back and speak it in perspective.

OK?

Oh really? I made a judgment against him? Where? I made a comment about selectively chosing 'facts' to support a position while ignoring facts that oppose that position. I never made ANY comment about your hero.

In point of fact, the writer is making a point against Darwin by picking and chosing what facts he wants to present, while hiding facts that present a different side the to issue. He is also limiting his objectivity by selecting 3 unrelated people and NOT picking relevant people. If the point is people who have been killed over ideology built on beliefs started by a person, Jesus and God would have a much worse record than Darwin. And Lincoln barely would fit.

Perhaps I have this Christian thing figured out all wrong, maybe I'm being the wrong kind of Christian.... BUT, to my way of thinking Christians have an extra duty to make sure they present a TRUTHFUL picture at all times, even if the facts aren't complimentary to what they want to believe. That means The Truth, The WHOLE Truth and NOTHING BUT the Truth!!! Picking and chosing what facts you use and how you present them is called SPIN (manipulating data to get people to see the result you want) and SPIN is just a fancy word for Twisting the Truth, which means Being Deceitful, which is the same as lying. SO, is it ok for Christians to be liars? IF NOT, then isn't it about time that Christians quit presenting half truths, spin, rhetoric and other methods of deceitful intent? Even if it means they lose a few arguments!!!