Alcohol

[Ovedya]

that being said, i suspect that exrockstar was being a little facetious when he asked about drinking with pretzels... a bit of light hearted humour that may not have been the best joke to make!

i see nothing wrong with having an occasional drink. i see plenty wrong with someone drinking as a means of escape, or to party, or to whatever. and while many christians may condemn me if i have a margarita with my fajitas, i'm quite comfortable knowing that God doesn't mind a bit.

an occasional drink is fine.

using good judgment is the key.

Alcoholics can't use good judgment, and you don't know if you're an acloholic til you drink.

Please clarify. I think that an alcoholic is perfectly capable of making good judgments when he's not drinking.

[kat8585]

that being said, i suspect that exrockstar was being a little facetious when he asked about drinking with pretzels... a bit of light hearted humour that may not have been the best joke to make!

i see nothing wrong with having an occasional drink. i see plenty wrong with someone drinking as a means of escape, or to party, or to whatever. and while many christians may condemn me if i have a margarita with my fajitas, i'm quite comfortable knowing that God doesn't mind a bit.

an occasional drink is fine.

using good judgment is the key.

Alcoholics can't use good judgment, and you don't know if you're an acloholic til you drink.

Please clarify. I think that an alcoholic is perfectly capable of making good judgments when he's not drinking.

Of course they can, but not when they're drinking. I mean they can't make good judgments about their drinking. No one knows if they are an alcoholic til they drink, and then it's too late. Why take the chance?

[Ovedya]

that being said, i suspect that exrockstar was being a little facetious when he asked about drinking with pretzels... a bit of light hearted humour that may not have been the best joke to make!

i see nothing wrong with having an occasional drink. i see plenty wrong with someone drinking as a means of escape, or to party, or to whatever. and while many christians may condemn me if i have a margarita with my fajitas, i'm quite comfortable knowing that God doesn't mind a bit.

an occasional drink is fine.

using good judgment is the key.

Alcoholics can't use good judgment, and you don't know if you're an acloholic til you drink.

Please clarify. I think that an alcoholic is perfectly capable of making good judgments when he's not drinking.

Of course they can, but not when they're drinking. I mean they can't make good judgments about their drinking. No one knows if they are an alcoholic til they drink, and then it's too late. Why take the chance?

I think it's been observed that the general tendency toward addiction can be detected through other means. One can have an addicitive personality and decide that it's probably not a good idea to even try alcohol.

problem is, in our culture it's all too common for children to try alcohol when they're as young as 13 and 14.

[Servant54]

there is no doubt that alcohol abuse and/or addiction is epidemic in our country. i'm not disputing that by any stretch of the imagination. what i am saying is that people should not jump to the conclusion that all individuals who have an occasional drink are abusing it or are dependent on it, nor should those who do not drink (for whatever reason) stand in judgment of those who have an occasional glass of wine (or draft beer or margarita or whatever.)

If it can be scripturally proven it is wrong to drink , then one could judge someone who who does such.

Just like someone who commits any other sin like say blasphemy,cheating etc. We are commanded to..(IITim 4:2 Preach the word,convince,rebuke,exhort etc)

When I say judge I mean like believing someone is wrong, not judging someone eternally. You have to believe the sugar jar is tipped over before you proceed to right it.

I must add that there is a time and a place to share truth and also an attitude that we are supposed to have of humility to come under people who have fallen and lift them up..less we also sin in the process of helping others.

I want to be careful myself as not to sound haughty or sound like a know it all.

I am trying to change peoples attitudes mostly..I am not so terribly concerned with someone over 50 taking a drink once a year(even though I believe it wrong)..I am mainly concerned as to how they relate to our youth and the image they represent by being a drinker and saying drinking is ok. They are on the wrong political side of the debate and their words and actions give our youth the wrong impression.

[Guest LadyC]

well, since it can't be scripturally proven that it is sinful, then judging based on that alone can't (or shouldn't be done.) you've hit on something though... we can judge the attitude and motive with which someone consumes alcohol, and the behaviour that may result from them doing so.

as for how people are relating to youth in this particular thread, or more accurately the circumstances that were brought up in the OP, i haven't seen anyone here on the wrong side of that debate. what has happened though is pretty typical... the discussion got off track and took on a life of its own... it became an argument (or a debate) between two opposing sides... the side that says drinking any alcohol is a sin, and those that say drunkenness is a sin.

the OP wasn't about that at all. it was a specific situation in which poke's underage girlfriend was trying to justify partying. she has no business drinking, period.

[kat8585]

that being said, i suspect that exrockstar was being a little facetious when he asked about drinking with pretzels... a bit of light hearted humour that may not have been the best joke to make!

i see nothing wrong with having an occasional drink. i see plenty wrong with someone drinking as a means of escape, or to party, or to whatever. and while many christians may condemn me if i have a margarita with my fajitas, i'm quite comfortable knowing that God doesn't mind a bit.

an occasional drink is fine.

using good judgment is the key.

Alcoholics can't use good judgment, and you don't know if you're an acloholic til you drink.

Please clarify. I think that an alcoholic is perfectly capable of making good judgments when he's not drinking.

Of course they can, but not when they're drinking. I mean they can't make good judgments about their drinking. No one knows if they are an alcoholic til they drink, and then it's too late. Why take the chance?

I think it's been observed that the general tendency toward addiction can be detected through other means. One can have an addicitive personality and decide that it's probably not a good idea to even try alcohol.

problem is, in our culture it's all too common for children to try alcohol when they're as young as 13 and 14.

All the alcoholics I know, and I know quite a few (4 are in my family), found out they were alcoholics after they drank. Then it was a long, painful process (for everone) to reach bottom and become sober, and know they are still alcoholics. One hasn't reached bottom yet, and is very young.

[Guest LadyC]

but i think what ovedya is trying to point out is that in most cases, there are indicators of being prone to addiction long before a person picks up their first drink. not always, but usually.

family history is one indicator. emotional instability is another. any tendency to over-indulge in other things is yet another. and of course, a disregard for laws concerning alcohol or any other substance is a huge red flag.

[Believer1997]

but i think what ovedya is trying to point out is that in most cases, there are indicators of being prone to addiction long before a person picks up their first drink. not always, but usually.

family history is one indicator. emotional instability is another. any tendency to over-indulge in other things is yet another. and of course, a disregard for laws concerning alcohol or any other substance is a huge red flag.

I DEFINITELY believe that people are predisposed to alcoholism. I've seen it in my husband's family and my own. I don't think it's all environmental - I think there's something there just ticking away inside and when they start to drink if they have a predisposition for alcohol or substance abuse - it grabs hold. I worked for a long time in the mental health field and I've seen some pretty amazing family studies... It's terrifying to think that you could so easily become an addict because of a genetic chink in your armor.

[Ovedya]

but i think what ovedya is trying to point out is that in most cases, there are indicators of being prone to addiction long before a person picks up their first drink. not always, but usually.

family history is one indicator. emotional instability is another. any tendency to over-indulge in other things is yet another. and of course, a disregard for laws concerning alcohol or any other substance is a huge red flag.

Right. Had I known my tendency toward addiction I probably could have saved myself at least 14 years of pain and misery.

[Servant54]

well, since it can't be scripturally proven that it is sinful, then judging based on that alone can't (or shouldn't be done.) you've hit on something though... we can judge the attitude and motive with which someone consumes alcohol, and the behaviour that may result from them doing so.

as for how people are relating to youth in this particular thread, or more accurately the circumstances that were brought up in the OP, i haven't seen anyone here on the wrong side of that debate. what has happened though is pretty typical... the discussion got off track and took on a life of its own... it became an argument (or a debate) between two opposing sides... the side that says drinking any alcohol is a sin, and those that say drunkenness is a sin.

the OP wasn't about that at all. it was a specific situation in which poke's underage girlfriend was trying to justify partying. she has no business drinking, period.

Oh it was proven that it was a sin..Pro 23;31 actually since then no one has proven it in not sin. (If you do not believe this scripture forbids alcohol then try explaining it.)

Now we all believe it is sin to be drunk and actually the practice of drunkenness will send one to hell. That is an important fact in this discussion.

I am trying to change attitudes and bring folks out of a sleep that the church has been in concerning this subject.

PS I have not forgot answering other earlier questions..I was just coming in out of the rain a minute..back to yard work..the rain quit.