ayin jade Posted July 11, 2009 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,798 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2009 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do. 16 And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy? 17 And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and is giving it to your neighbor, to David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD, nor execute his fierce wrath on Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you now. 19 And, the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The LORD also shall deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. The Lord left Saul, yet on this day Saul and his sons would be with Samuel (who is dead and appearing as a ghost for the witch of Endor). Is Saul saved? If not, why would he be with Samuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted July 11, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 287 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/26/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/07/1967 Share Posted July 11, 2009 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do. 16 And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy? 17 And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and is giving it to your neighbor, to David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD, nor execute his fierce wrath on Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you now. 19 And, the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The LORD also shall deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. The Lord left Saul, yet on this day Saul and his sons would be with Samuel (who is dead and appearing as a ghost for the witch of Endor). Is Saul saved? If not, why would he be with Samuel? I believe this scripture is a good indication that Hades (not Hell, Hell is different) exists and the dead do go there to wait for resurrection. If Hades is the land of the dead, then Samuel would be there. However it is a bit tricky because Ecclesiastes, states more than once that in Hades, you don't know anything. So Samuel's knowledge of what is going on is very strange indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 11, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 11, 2009 In the OT, the concept is when you die, you go to Sheol, which is translated as "the grave." They did not have a concept of Heaven and Hell the way we do, but I do believe they had a concept of the righteous and unrighteous having a different fate after death. It is unclear, though, what this concept was, as it is not mentioned in the Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted July 11, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Personally, I'm not smart enough to answer your question, but I did find this. Described as a paraphrase by Rev. C. Wesley, What do these sloemn words portend. A ray of hope when life shall end. Thou and thy sons, though slain, shall be to-morrow in repose with me. Not in a state of hellish pain, If Saul with Samuel do remain: Not in a state of damn'd despair, If loving Jonathan be there. Adam Clark writes: Saul had commitedthe sin unto death-the sin to be visited with a violent death, while the mercy of God was extended to the soul. Thus say my faith, my hope and my charity and doth not the mercy of God say the same. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted July 12, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 287 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/26/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/07/1967 Share Posted July 12, 2009 In the OT, the concept is when you die, you go to Sheol, which is translated as "the grave." They did not have a concept of Heaven and Hell the way we do, but I do believe they had a concept of the righteous and unrighteous having a different fate after death. It is unclear, though, what this concept was, as it is not mentioned in the Scripture. I understand that Hades is Greek for sheol, I should have been more correct and said sheol. Here is a snip of what Wiki has for sheol: Sheol (pronounced "Sheh-ole")[1], in Hebrew שאול (Sh'ol), is the "abode of the dead", the "underworld", or "pit".[2] Sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous dead, as recounted in Ecclesiastes and Job. By the second century BC, Jews who accepted the Oral Torah had come to believe that those in sheol awaited the resurrection either in comfort (in the bosom of Abraham) or in torment. This belief is reflected in Jesus' story of Lazarus and Dives. At that time Jews who rejected the Oral Torah believed that Sheol meant simply the grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbershay Posted July 12, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2009 very interesting perhaps osas plays out here. something to pray about and ponder for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesult Posted July 12, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 326 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2009 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do. 16 And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy? 17 And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and is giving it to your neighbor, to David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD, nor execute his fierce wrath on Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you now. 19 And, the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The LORD also shall deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. The Lord left Saul, yet on this day Saul and his sons would be with Samuel (who is dead and appearing as a ghost for the witch of Endor). Is Saul saved? If not, why would he be with Samuel? I believe this scripture is a good indication that Hades (not Hell, Hell is different) exists and the dead do go there to wait for resurrection. If Hades is the land of the dead, then Samuel would be there. However it is a bit tricky because Ecclesiastes, states more than once that in Hades, you don't know anything. So Samuel's knowledge of what is going on is very strange indeed. Sheol (hades) the grave and gehenna (lake of fire) are all translated as 'hell' in the bible in english, but they're three seperate places (revelation mentions them all seperatly when referring to final judgment). The fact that Samuel was 'at rest' seems to indicate that he was in the grave, which makes sense as he was a righteous man. In revelation is tells us that all will stand before Gods throne for judgement, and that happens after Christs return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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