Who Will Be Left?

[Catsmeow]

Didn't Hal Lindsey teach us that the Soviet Union would be an agent of the endtimes? Last time I checked, the USSR was dead, and the rest of us are still here.

No, not exactly. He was referring to the scripture which points to the armies of the north, (which at that time was the Soviet Union). Now it would be Russia.

It wasn't a matter of what the proper or formal name of the kingdom was but the location of the army to the north of Israel.

You missed the point. It's not a war on proper names but the location of the army given in scripture, which is a geographic marker to the north of the holy city, (Jerusalum).

[Catsmeow]

If you had a direct vision from Jesus today, that the end would be coming tomorrow, what would you do diferently that you're not supposed to be doing already

I wouldn't be doing anything differently. I am walking daily with my Lord and standing firm on His word.

I would do nothing differently.

If, however...I was healthy and well, I'd do a lot more than I am. I'm rather limited in what I can do physically.

So I am resigned to prayer, bible study and fellowship online.

[stevehut]

No, not exactly. He was referring to the scripture which points to the armies of the north, (which at that time was the Soviet Union). Now it would be Russia.

Look into it, and you will see that modern-day Russia is only a fraction as powerful as the old USSR. Most of the old Soviet-bloc countries are now emerging as capitalist democracies, and some have joined NATO.

The power of the USSR, was that they could conscript Czechs and Romanians (for example) as soldiers. They could take all the natural resources. They controlled the governments of those countries.

Without this ability, Russia will never be able to regain the glory days of the USSR. They don't have the money, the people, the tax base, or (for that matter) the political will.

They want to retake Yugoslavia? Good luck. NATO is a mutual defense association. Anyone who declares war on one, declares war on all. That (not an invasion of Iraq) would be the "mother of all battles."

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Catsmeow,

I refer only to "pre-wrath" because we are NOT appointed unto wrath. That makes it pretty plain to me.

You are correct here, but I believe, as you say, you are confused regarding the "great tribulation":

The "tribulation" argument (as you call it) gets confusing because there are is a tribulation and a Great Tribulation. There is a time of testing and also a time of God's wrath upon mankind.

The Great Tribulation which is aka the "Great and Terrible Day of the Lord" and is generally considered to be an expression of God's judgement upon mankind.

Here are the verses regarding the "great tribulation":

Matthew 24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The time frame Jesus is referencing in the above is the immediate days preceding His 2nd advent.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

"The great tribulation" mentioned here is the last 3 1/2 years prior to the Lord's coming in which the Beast is going to wage war against the saints of God AND overcome them.

The "great and terrible day of the Lord" is:

Revelation 11:15-18 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

So are we in agreement here? The seals and the bowls (tribulations) have already been poured out by this time.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[rollinTHUNDER]

I need help in fully understanding this verse of scripture taken from Luke Ch21:

Luke 21:35-36

35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Can anyone elaborate on this? Is this possibly connected to the Parable of the Ten Virgins?

Good question cats. There is only one logical answer that fits all of the problems dealing with the rapture and those who are worthy to escape. I believe you would be correct in relating it to the parable of ten virgins, because nothing else fits. I just posted this to someone else today on another forum. I would advise you to take a very close look at it, and not just skim over it real quick because you may miss the deeper truths hidden underneath the surface. The rapture is a very deep and profound mystery. Check this out:

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It appears that you are saying that the very elect can be deceived, but did you notice that it says (if it were possible)? That's a very good question in and of itself.

So, is it possible that God's very elect can be deceived? Hmmmm?

Personally, I believe that it is an impossibility. I believe that many believers will be deceived, but none of the elect (chosen) will be. Here I go again....

Of course this is all still a great mystery, and I don't think it can be proven, not even with scripture, but here is why I believe the very elect can not be deceived:

First, the Lord will descend to the clouds to gather the wise virgins (those who are ready and have overcome the world). The foolish virgins (lukewarm who are not yet ready) will still need to be purified. These will be thrown in with the unbelievers (Luke 12:46) to face the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth (Rev. 3:10).

There are millions of believers, but very few are willing to die for what they believe. The ones who have voluntarily crucified their flesh (wise virgins) will escape, but the foolish have a rude awaking coming. But these too, will finally surrender their lives, but only under duress. That only leaves those who will not be strong enough, and these will fall away from the faith and take the mark of the beast.

It's a no brainer that the wise were not deceived. On the other hand, the foolish virgins may have been late bloomers and not ready for the wedding supper, but they still are not deceived either, as they will finally overcome. Then the bride (church) will have finally made herself ready (Rev. 19:7). The wise will already be standing around the throne in heaven when the foolish virgins (souls) are being gathered and placed under the altar. Both the wise and foolish are the elect, and both will reign 1000 years (Rev. 20:4). Those who fall away and take the mark are not the elect, and they never were.

Salvation is a free gift, but it will also cost you everything. Have you ever noticed that everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die?

Luke 9:23-24

"And He said to them all, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me. (24)For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it."

This is one major difference between the wise and foolish virgins. Both are virgins (elect), but not all are ready when He appears. Both lay down their lives. The wise do it voluntarily, while the foolish must be forced in the tribulation. Better late than never I guess. No flesh will ever be able to enter into heaven. It must be crucified, one way or the other. But it's a matter of choice isn't it. Like that old commercial says, "You can pay me now, - or you can pay me later." But it will be much more expensive for those who wish to pay later, for they must pay not only with Jesus' blood, but they must also shed their own, not to even mention their loss of rewards in heaven.

Many will argue that Jesus died for them and that is the end of the story. Not so. We have a part to play as well. Jesus made the sacrifice, and we must do the same. We have a choice. We can choose to be a living sacrifices (voluntarily), or we can choose to give our heads (against our will).

Most would probably choose to take the easy route, the living sacrifice. But this requires a very disciplined lifestyle of self-denial. Going to church every Sunday is not going to cut it. You will find many hearers of the word there, but few doers. There's much more to being a believer than just saying we believe.

The wise way to get there is:

Rev. 19:9

"And he saith unto me,Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

[This is a great multitude from all nations that will be standing before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palm branches in their hands (Rev. 7:9).]

The foolish way to get there is:

Rev. 14:9-13

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven sayiWrite, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: saying unto me, Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."

[These are those souls who will be seen under the altar in heaven, asking for vengeance.]

So who is Jesus coming for in the rapture?

The disciplined ones, His disciples of course!

Oh I almost forgot to mention another group of His elect that will not be deceived. The believing (1/3) remnant in Israel (Zech 13:8-9). Jesus warned in Matt. 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Wise Virgins - get raptured, so obviously they can not be deceived.

Foolish Virgins - they may be too late for the wedding supper, but they eventually overcome.

1/3 Remnant of Israel - though they narrowly escape, these also are not deceived either.

Many are called, but few are chosen. Only those who are not His elect can be deceived, but those who are held in His hands, the devil can not touch.

We need to be careful. Many are being taught to believe in today's popular Pre-trib theory in which the entire church will escape in the rapture. This is not scriptural. If this was truth, then there would be none left to be beheaded in the tribulation period. Many of the ones who are teaching this also claim that if you hear the gospel before the rapture, but get left behind, you can not get saved in the tribulation. Those teaching this have totally misunderstood the parable of the ten virgins. They assume that everyone that is not ready when the Bridegroom comes will take the mark of the beast, but scripture in no way backs this assumption. Be on your guard folks, those same teachers are the very same teachers that are also teaching the [Once saved - always saved balogna].

I hope this helps. Cheers!

[Guest idied2]

Two thirds of the population of the earth will be taken and bound to be burned as the tares are gathered to be burned in the fire.Those who are left: one third of the population of the earth: are the subjects of the kingdom of GOD. These are not the ones who were worthy to obtain the first resurection: or the catching away to meet the LORD in the air. These are the subjects of the kingdom who will be taught by the LORD and HIS firstfruits.HIS elect. HIS saints.

. Zechariah 13

8 And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the Lord, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it:

9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The Lord is my God.' "

Revelation 7

7:9

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

7:14

And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

7:17

for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

IN CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Guest idied2]

Notice that the only ones on mount zion with the LORD are the 144 thousand, it also says that the 144 thousand are those redeemed from earth.

Revelation 14:1-5

1 Then I looked, and behold, a* Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps.

3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth

4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Here are scriptures where CHRIST described them.

Luke 20:35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Mt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

Mark 12:25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

Mt 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[stevehut]

If, however...I was healthy and well, I'd do a lot more than I am. I'm rather limited in what I can do physically.

I don't think God expect any of us to be Supermen(women). He judges our hearts, that we do what we are able. Looks like you've done the best you can.

[Guest idied2]

Luke 21:35-36

35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Here is how thoes who are worthy escape all these things.

Psalms 91:1-8

1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2 I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."

3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler And from the perilous pestilence.

4 He shall cover you with His feathers, And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler.

5 You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day,

6 Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness, Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.

7 A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it shall not come near you.

8 Only with your eyes shall you look, And see the reward of the wicked.

Ephesians 6:10-18

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,

15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints--

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Guest idied2]

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

Remember that the word of GOD burned the captain and fifty. Brought water out of the face of the rock. Shut the mouth of the lions. Shielded from the heat of the furnace. Made a three day journey last one day. Parted the sea. protected with a pillar of fire. healed the sick and raised the dead. ect.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: