How does the churches interpret concubines

[Guest man]

precept's

Who's bashing who know, onelight. Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Man's

Would you mind explaining that?

It's self-explanatory.

Anybody can quote scripture.......even the devil.

You asked a question, I answered it and you accuse me of bashing you. Your 40 some posts have very little if any substance to them at all. Your actions thus far have done very little to uphold the screen name you have chosen for yourself.

[Smalcald]

I have not read the entire thread so apologies if this have been covered.There are many seemingly crazy things done by people in Genesis through the entire OT. Christians however are called to live as Christ told us to live. Our law is the law of Christ as explained very specifically in the New Testament, the Good News, not the laws and statutes and behaviors of the ancient Jews and other tribes and people described in the OT.

Christ told us that any sex outside of marriage between a man and women was sin, was fornication this was further driven home by Paul; who specifically calls out fornication and sex outside of marriage as one of the things that if we live in it, will mean that we will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Serious business.

So obviously concubines, prostitutes, one night stands we may pick up at a bar or an immoral sexual relationship you end up living with, having an affair within marriage; are all sin, are all living in death and without repentance will send us to hell.

[Guest Butero]

How do the churches explain concubines in the context of fornication? Is unmarital sex really a sin?

Gen 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

2Sa 5:13 And David took [him] more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.

Gen 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard [it]. Now the sons of Jacob were twelve:

1Ch 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

1Ch 2:46 And Ephah, Caleb's concubine, bare Haran, and Moza, and Gazez: and Haran begat Gazez.

1Ch 7:14 The sons of Manasseh; Ashriel, whom she bare: ([but] his concubine the Aramitess bare Machir the father of Gilead:

2Ch 11:21 And Rehoboam loved Maachah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines: (for he took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines; and begat twenty and eight sons, and threescore daughters.)

Food for thought.

When the Bible refers to someone having a concubine, it was not the same as simply having sexual relations outside of marriage. The concubine was similar to a wife in that she belonged to one man. It wasn't the same thing as sexual relationships while simply dating. The bigger question is what God thinks of polygamy which opens up another can of worms. It is clear in the Old Testament that the practice was never forbidden. In the New Testament, the practice is never outright forbidden either, but it is clear from the requirements for bishops and deacons that God's best is a marriage between one man and one woman. At the same time, situations could occur, where there is a shortage of men as a result of war where polygamy might be necessary so all single women could have a husband, and I believe this is acceptable in the sight of God. Isaiah 4:1 says, "AND in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach."

Back to your original question. How does the church explain concubines in the context of fornication? A concubine was looked at as a wife in the sight of God so no fornication was taking place. Is sex outside of marriage a sin? Absolutely. The Bible states that those who engage in fornication will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. You didn't ask, but I would imagine the next question would be regarding polygamy. Is it acceptable today? The practice is illegal in this country, and since we are supposed to obey the laws of the land, I believe it would be wrong. I do think it is possible in theory for a church to decide to unite couples through some type of marriage not recognized by the government if they decided to do so, and that might be a way around the law, but I don't believe polygamy is necessary. One wife is enough and there are enough single men and women to go around. That is just my opinion. On the other side of the coin, some people believe that Jesus changed the rules and that polygamy is no longer allowed in the sight of God. While I don't hold to that viewpoint, I feel like the possibility should be considered because I could be wrong, and you will have to give account of your own actions to God on the judgment day. In other words, such actions should not be taken lightly because divorce is clearly wrong, and if you were involved in a polygamous marriage, you would be bound to those women for life.

[Guest shiloh357]

How do the churches explain concubines in the context of fornication? Is unmarital sex really a sin?

Gen 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

2Sa 5:13 And David took [him] more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.

Gen 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard [it]. Now the sons of Jacob were twelve:

1Ch 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

1Ch 2:46 And Ephah, Caleb's concubine, bare Haran, and Moza, and Gazez: and Haran begat Gazez.

1Ch 7:14 The sons of Manasseh; Ashriel, whom she bare: ([but] his concubine the Aramitess bare Machir the father of Gilead:

2Ch 11:21 And Rehoboam loved Maachah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines: (for he took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines; and begat twenty and eight sons, and threescore daughters.)

Food for thought.

When the Bible refers to someone having a concubine, it was not the same as simply having sexual relations outside of marriage. The concubine was similar to a wife in that she belonged to one man. It wasn't the same thing as sexual relationships while simply dating. The bigger question is what God thinks of polygamy which opens up another can of worms. It is clear in the Old Testament that the practice was never forbidden. In the New Testament, the practice is never outright forbidden either, but it is clear from the requirements for bishops and deacons that God's best is a marriage between one man and one woman. At the same time, situations could occur, where there is a shortage of men as a result of war where polygamy might be necessary so all single women could have a husband, and I believe this is acceptable in the sight of God. Isaiah 4:1 says, "AND in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach."

Back to your original question. How does the church explain concubines in the context of fornication? A concubine was looked at as a wife in the sight of God so no fornication was taking place. Is sex outside of marriage a sin? Absolutely. The Bible states that those who engage in fornication will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. You didn't ask, but I would imagine the next question would be regarding polygamy. Is it acceptable today? The practice is illegal in this country, and since we are supposed to obey the laws of the land, I believe it would be wrong. I do think it is possible in theory for a church to decide to unite couples through some type of marriage not recognized by the government if they decided to do so, and that might be a way around the law, but I don't believe polygamy is necessary. One wife is enough and there are enough single men and women to go around. That is just my opinion. On the other side of the coin, some people believe that Jesus changed the rules and that polygamy is no longer allowed in the sight of God. While I don't hold to that viewpoint, I feel like the possibility should be considered because I could be wrong, and you will have to give account of your own actions to God on the judgment day. In other words, such actions should not be taken lightly because divorce is clearly wrong, and if you were involved in a polygamous marriage, you would be bound to those women for life.

Don't waste your energy, Butero. precepts is tryig to use the concbine issue to justify fornication by changing the meaning of "concubine" to mean something else. precepts has sin in his/her life that he/she doesn't want to surrender to the Lord. precepts was not asking serious study question.

[Smalcald]

Hi Butaro,

I basically agree with your answer.

How do you interpret what Christ said below about marriage though in light of allowing polygamy?

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

This seems to be very singular in its intent, the two becoming one, not the many becoming one.

[precepts]

Smal's

I have not read the entire thread so apologies if this have been covered.There are many seemingly crazy things done by people in Genesis through the entire OT. Christians however are called to live as Christ told us to live. Our law is the law of Christ as explained very specifically in the New Testament, the Good News, not the laws and statutes and behaviors of the ancient Jews and other tribes and people described in the OT.

Christ told us that any sex outside of marriage between a man and women was sin, was fornication this was further driven home by Paul; who specifically calls out fornication and sex outside of marriage as one of the things that if we live in it, will mean that we will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Serious business.

One of the other posters hit the nail right on the head, a concubine was a woman that you had a relationship with but not married to, sort of like a mistress. Fornication would be having casual sex, sex without a relationship, that's the point I was trying to make. Secondly, show the scripture where sex outside of marriage as with a mistress/concubine is a sin.

Smal's

So obviously concubines, prostitutes, one night stands we may pick up at a bar or an immoral sexual relationship you end up living with, having an affair within marriage; are all sin, are all living in death and without repentance will send us to hell.

A concubine is a mistress.

Smal's

Hi Butaro,

I basically agree with your answer.

How do you interpret what Christ said below about marriage though in light of allowing polygamy?

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

This seems to be very singular in its intent, the two becoming one, not the many becoming one.

How would the jews with wives and concubines define it, especially since they lived after genesis?

[precepts]

shiloh's

Don't waste your energy, Butero. precepts is tryig to use the concbine issue to justify fornication by changing the meaning of "concubine" to mean something else. precepts has sin in his/her life that he/she doesn't want to surrender to the Lord. precepts was not asking serious study question.

You sound like a spoil child.

butero's

When the Bible refers to someone having a concubine, it was not the same as simply having sexual relations outside of marriage. The concubine was similar to a wife in that she belonged to one man.

That is exactly my point. Fornication is casual sex without a relationship, adultery is sex with a married woman.

butero's

It wasn't the same thing as sexual relationships while simply dating.

Ditto!

butero's

The bigger question is what God thinks of polygamy which opens up another can of worms. It is clear in the Old Testament that the practice was never forbidden. In the New Testament, the practice is never outright forbidden either,

And that's a fact.

butero's

but it is clear from the requirements for bishops and deacons that God's best is a marriage between one man and one woman.

Depends on which church you're referring to, some prefer celibacy.

butero's

At the same time, situations could occur, where there is a shortage of men as a result of war where polygamy might be necessary so all single women could have a husband, and I believe this is acceptable in the sight of God. Isaiah 4:1 says, "AND in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach."

butero's

Back to your original question. How does the church explain concubines in the context of fornication? A concubine was looked at as a wife in the sight of God so no fornication was taking place. Is sex outside of marriage a sin? Absolutely.

You're contradicting yourself, you said early concubine were umarried relationships. "The concubine was similar to a wife in that she belonged to one man", is your words.

butero's

The Bible states that those who engage in fornication will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. You didn't ask, but I would imagine the next question would be regarding polygamy. Is it acceptable today? The practice is illegal in this country, and since we are supposed to obey the laws of the land, I believe it would be wrong. I do think it is possible in theory for a church to decide to unite couples through some type of marriage not recognized by the government if they decided to do so, and that might be a way around the law, but I don't believe polygamy is necessary. One wife is enough and there are enough single men and women to go around. That is just my opinion. On the other side of the coin, some people believe that Jesus changed the rules and that polygamy is no longer allowed in the sight of God. While I don't hold to that viewpoint, I feel like the possibility should be considered because I could be wrong, and you will have to give account of your own actions to God on the judgment day. In other words, such actions should not be taken lightly because divorce is clearly wrong, and if you were involved in a polygamous marriage, you would be bound to those women for life.

The point is, there's no law forbidden concubines aslong as it's a relationship. The says if a man divorce his wife for any reason other that fornication/adultery, he that marries her commiteth adultery.

The fact still remains, the churches teaching on marriage doesn't line up with the bible. They're against common law relationships instead of preaching against casual sex. It should be find someone or someones and settle down, cease from the real fornication.

[sheya joie]

No, as I and others have already pointed out, the concubine is not a mistress; she is a wife but with lesser status than a regular wife. Whether a slave wife or a secondary wife in a polygamous situation, the concubine is still a wife, married to the man of the family.

Once again, in the case of the concubine in Judges 19-20, we have this verse:

Jdg 20:4 And the Levite, the

husband

of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that belongeth to Benjamin, I and my

concubine

, to lodge.

The man identifies the woman as his concubine, and is himself identified as the woman's husband. If she had been merely a mistress, he would not have been spoken of as her husband.

Also, the relationship of Keturah to Abraham is spoken of here as wife

Gen 25:1 Then again Abraham took a

wife

, and her name was Keturah.

but here as concubine

1Ch 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's

concubine

: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

The evidence of Scripture shows that the concubine was not merely a mistress but an actual wife.

[OneLight]

Smal's

I have not read the entire thread so apologies if this have been covered.There are many seemingly crazy things done by people in Genesis through the entire OT. Christians however are called to live as Christ told us to live. Our law is the law of Christ as explained very specifically in the New Testament, the Good News, not the laws and statutes and behaviors of the ancient Jews and other tribes and people described in the OT.

Christ told us that any sex outside of marriage between a man and women was sin, was fornication this was further driven home by Paul; who specifically calls out fornication and sex outside of marriage as one of the things that if we live in it, will mean that we will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Serious business.

One of the other posters hit the nail right on the head, a concubine was a woman that you had a relationship with but not married to, sort of like a mistress. Fornication would be having casual sex, sex without a relationship, that's the point I was trying to make. Secondly, show the scripture where sex outside of marriage as with a mistress/concubine is a sin.

Smal's

So obviously concubines, prostitutes, one night stands we may pick up at a bar or an immoral sexual relationship you end up living with, having an affair within marriage; are all sin, are all living in death and without repentance will send us to hell.

A concubine is a mistress.

Smal's

Hi Butaro,

I basically agree with your answer.

How do you interpret what Christ said below about marriage though in light of allowing polygamy?

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

This seems to be very singular in its intent, the two becoming one, not the many becoming one.

How would the jews with wives and concubines define it, especially since they lived after genesis?

Strange how we have given proof against this belief that concubines were not considered wives. Can you give proof to back your understanding. I have personally shown you how the Hebrew word meant a lesser wife. Is this to be ignored so you can back up some idea that the church brushes aside fornication?

[Guest shiloh357]

Smal's

I have not read the entire thread so apologies if this have been covered.There are many seemingly crazy things done by people in Genesis through the entire OT. Christians however are called to live as Christ told us to live. Our law is the law of Christ as explained very specifically in the New Testament, the Good News, not the laws and statutes and behaviors of the ancient Jews and other tribes and people described in the OT.

Christ told us that any sex outside of marriage between a man and women was sin, was fornication this was further driven home by Paul; who specifically calls out fornication and sex outside of marriage as one of the things that if we live in it, will mean that we will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Serious business.

One of the other posters hit the nail right on the head, a concubine was a woman that you had a relationship with but not married to, sort of like a mistress. Fornication would be having casual sex, sex without a relationship, that's the point I was trying to make. Secondly, show the scripture where sex outside of marriage as with a mistress/concubine is a sin.

Smal's

So obviously concubines, prostitutes, one night stands we may pick up at a bar or an immoral sexual relationship you end up living with, having an affair within marriage; are all sin, are all living in death and without repentance will send us to hell.

A concubine is a mistress.

Smal's

Hi Butaro,

I basically agree with your answer.

How do you interpret what Christ said below about marriage though in light of allowing polygamy?

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

This seems to be very singular in its intent, the two becoming one, not the many becoming one.

How would the jews with wives and concubines define it, especially since they lived after genesis?

It would appear someone is trying to justfy sin.