The 144,000 Spiritual Israel?

[angels4u]

Amen Snowdove!

[Matthitjah]

May I first say,

I harbour no ill will towards any Jew.I have been grafted in amongst them in the Spiritual part. The true part of Abrahams seed. My Savior is a Jew. Abraham has many seed even to this day. If the fleshy part of Israel is to be all saved because they are Abrahams fleshy seed? Why not his other fleshy seed as well? Paul said he and other Jews(The first true members of the church in Christ) were the elect under grace the remnant of Jews even as it is today. Even today Jews believe and become a remnant of G-ds perfect Spiritual Israel.

Dad Ernie,

Ch 9 reveals that Paul was lamenting that "his brothers in the flesh" had "missed" their day of salvation.

Ch 10 then tells us the outline of the Gospel of Jesus Christ by which the Jews (in fact everyone) must be saved, but Paul is specifically speaking of the Jews.

Agreed

No where in Romans does it state that all Israel of the flesh will be saved. Only (as in 11:23) if they do not continue in unbelief then G-d can graft them back in

That if is a big statement. For I feel if Paul knew for certain that all fleshy Israel was to be saved, (through belief and Spiritual conversion to the true Spiritual Israel the extension of the King who came, the Messiah. Who now leads true Israel of which we are a part) he wouldn't say if

Fleshy Israel was condemned and destroyed. They thought by destroying the Messiah they would take his kingdom(inheritence). The exact opposite happened he took away their inheritence. To be a light to the World, to represent G-d, to be his people, to minister to the World.

So all Israel is saved thru the Christ. The remnant, those grafted in branchs, whosever believes.

Shadow2b,

The seventy weeks you speak of are true. Each week consisted of 7 days. Each day was a year correct?

They were as in verse 24 of Daniel 9

To finish the transgression

To make an end of sins

To make reconcilliation for iniquity

To bring in everlasting righteousness

To seal up vision and prophecy

And to annoint the most Holy

in dan.9.-vs.-25.--accounts for only 69 weeks which leaves the 70/th week to be fulfilled when the anti-christ signs a seven year covenant with ISRAEL to guarantee their safety..--------- hope this is understandable------

I understand all that. The only problem is the seventy weeks were determined for Daniels people. The A.C can't fullfill a whit or a tither of that whether he signs a false contract or not.Even if he is ethnically Jewish. He wish's to falsify the work of Jesus. Who will sew up prophecy? Who already put an end to sin? Who reconcilled iniquity?Who has everlasting righteousness?

I say there is no 7 year tribulation because I think there is only 3 1/2 years left of the true 70 weeks of Daniels prophecy.

I don't care what the Beast does or say's when he comes to power.He is a lying deceiver anyway. He will try anything including twisting scripture to fool the Faithful.

.---- DOC IF james 1--1-- isn't speaking of the 12 tribes scattered abroad ,WHO in the wide eyed world is he referring to ??

James 1:1

James a bondservant of G-d and of the Lord Jesus Christ .

To the Twelve Tribes which are scattered abroad:Greetings.

He goes on to talk of patience in the Faith and perserverence in Tribulation.He sure wasn't talking to or about the fleshy non Christ believing Jews who were persecuting the Church.

He calls the Faithful Spiritual believers of Christ the twelve tribes of Israel.They were scattered abroad as the Faith spread.

Brother Shadow Jesus redeemed you and left you blameless before the throne of G-d.How great an act. To which we are not worthy except thru Grace.

I know better than to believe we are Raptured at Revelation 4's calling up of John. I am a Post Trib/ Pre Wrath believer.Amen

I said there were 19 different list's that don't agree with the list in Revelation7.

Look at the blessings of Jacob to his sons in Genesis 49. There is one list.

Also Numbers 1 there is a list which doesn't match. Search the old testament.Seek , Ask, Pray diligently.

I Posted this thread to deepen awareness. I lately have been on a Spiritual Quest to understand the Word of G-d.Really understand it.I seek his Holiness and a measure of understanding. To see him we must see in the Spirit. Not to say all scripture is symbolic either. I just feel and have been led to believe this is.

Look at the charecteristics of the 144,000

1. Multiple of twelve which is a multiple of 3 and 4. 3 representing the Trinity and 4 representing the 4 corners of the Earth of all humanity from which they come.

Look at Revelation 7:1-3 John see'e four mighty Angels standing at the 4 corners of the Earth holding the 4 winds .

Then another Angel comes and cry's out not to harm the Earth or the sea or the tree's until the servants of our G-d are sealed.

2. 144,000 are a great multitude that no man can number.Verse 9.

3.People from all over the Earth redeemed. Rev 14:3,4

4.People who trust Jesus. Rev 7:10

5.Value truth in their relationship with G-d and eachother.Rev 14:4,5

Snowdove,

Grace and peace to you also.

I think sometimes man puts too much effort into wanting to understand everything instead of having faith in G-d's plans.

I have Faith in G-ds plan to the utmost, of that you can be assured.

Exactly because I have Faith and the given Word I try to understand it. So as I can partake of it's blessings.

G-ds plans have been revealed we just look at them thru smoked glass as it were.

Matthew 24:25 " See, I have told you beforehand."

Revelation 1:1

Peace to you, keep the Faith.

Peace

 :inlove: Amen

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Snowdove,

I was under the impression -

The 144,000 are Jews who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah. These people always will be Jewish, and

will  continue to practice their religion.  They are G-d's people

One thing you have straight is that the Jews will ALWAYS be Jews and the gentiles will never be Jews. But there is only one Name on earth or in heaven by which we must be saved, whether it be Jew or gentile. Either we be obedient to Jesus Christ or we are lost regardless of whether Jew or Gentile. Our customs and celebrations may differ with our location or with our nationality, but they must NEVER conflict with the scriptures. So if this is what you want to label as "religion", that is fine. Personally, I belong to Jesus Christ, I DO NOT belong to some "religion".

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest shadow2b]

May I first say,

I harbour no ill will towards any Jew.I have been grafted in amongst them in the Spiritual part. The true part of Abrahams seed. My Savior is a Jew. Abraham has many seed even to this day. If the fleshy part of Israel is to be all saved because they are Abrahams fleshy seed? Why not his other fleshy seed as well? Paul said he and other Jews(The first true members of the church in Christ) were the elect under grace the remnant of Jews even as it is today. Even today Jews believe and become a remnant of G-ds perfect Spiritual Israel.

Dad Ernie,

Ch 9 reveals that Paul was lamenting that "his brothers in the flesh" had "missed" their day of salvation.

Ch 10 then tells us the outline of the Gospel of Jesus Christ by which the Jews (in fact everyone) must be saved, but Paul is specifically speaking of the Jews.

Agreed

No where in Romans does it state that all Israel of the flesh will be saved. Only (as in 11:23) if they do not continue in unbelief then G-d can graft them back in

That if is a big statement. For I feel if Paul knew for certain that all fleshy Israel was to be saved, (through belief and Spiritual conversion to the true Spiritual Israel the extension of the King who came, the Messiah. Who now leads true Israel of which we are a part) he wouldn't say if

Fleshy Israel was condemned and destroyed. They thought by destroying the Messiah they would take his kingdom(inheritence). The exact opposite happened he took away their inheritence. To be a light to the World, to represent G-d, to be his people, to minister to the World.

So all Israel is saved thru the Christ. The remnant, those grafted in branchs, whosever believes.

Shadow2b,

The seventy weeks you speak of are true. Each week consisted of 7 days. Each day was a year correct?

They were as in verse 24 of Daniel 9

To finish the transgression

To make an end of sins

To make reconcilliation for iniquity

To bring in everlasting righteousness

To seal up vision and prophecy

And to annoint the most Holy

in dan.9.-vs.-25.--accounts for only 69 weeks which leaves the 70/th week to be fulfilled when the anti-christ signs a seven year covenant with ISRAEL to guarantee their safety..--------- hope this is understandable------

I understand all that. The only problem is the seventy weeks were determined for Daniels people. The A.C can't fullfill a whit or a tither of that whether he signs a false contract or not.Even if he is ethnically Jewish. He wish's to falsify the work of Jesus. Who will sew up prophecy? Who already put an end to sin? Who reconcilled iniquity?Who has everlasting righteousness?

I say there is no 7 year tribulation because I think there is only 3 1/2 years left of the true 70 weeks of Daniels prophecy.

I don't care what the Beast does or say's when he comes to power.He is a lying deceiver anyway. He will try anything including twisting scripture to fool the Faithful.

.---- DOC IF james 1--1-- isn't speaking of the 12 tribes scattered abroad ,WHO in the wide eyed world is he referring to ??

James 1:1

James a bondservant of G-d and of the Lord Jesus Christ .

To the Twelve Tribes which are scattered abroad:Greetings.

He goes on to talk of patience in the Faith and perserverence in Tribulation.He sure wasn't talking to or about the fleshy non Christ believing Jews who were persecuting the Church.

He calls the Faithful Spiritual believers of Christ the twelve tribes of Israel.They were scattered abroad as the Faith spread.

Brother Shadow Jesus redeemed you and left you blameless before the throne of G-d.How great an act. To which we are not worthy except thru Grace.

I know better than to believe we are Raptured at Revelation 4's calling up of John. I am a Post Trib/ Pre Wrath believer.Amen

I said there were 19 different list's that don't agree with the list in Revelation7.

Look at the blessings of Jacob to his sons in Genesis 49. There is one list.

Also Numbers 1 there is a list which doesn't match. Search the old testament.Seek , Ask, Pray diligently.

I Posted this thread to deepen awareness. I lately have been on a Spiritual Quest to understand the Word of G-d.Really understand it.I seek his Holiness and a measure of understanding. To see him we must see in the Spirit. Not to say all scripture is symbolic either. I just feel and have been led to believe this is.

Look at the charecteristics of the 144,000

1. Multiple of twelve which is a multiple of 3 and 4. 3 representing the Trinity and 4 representing the 4 corners of the Earth of all humanity from which they come.

Look at Revelation 7:1-3 John see'e four mighty Angels standing at the 4 corners of the Earth holding the 4 winds .

Then another Angel comes and cry's out not to harm the Earth or the sea or the tree's until the servants of our G-d are sealed.

2. 144,000 are a great multitude that no man can number.Verse 9.

3.People from all over the Earth redeemed. Rev 14:3,4

4.People who trust Jesus. Rev 7:10

5.Value truth in their relationship with G-d and eachother.Rev 14:4,5

Snowdove,

Grace and peace to you also.

I think sometimes man puts too much effort into wanting to understand everything instead of having faith in G-d's plans.

I have Faith in G-ds plan to the utmost, of that you can be assured.

Exactly because I have Faith and the given Word I try to understand it. So as I can partake of it's blessings.

G-ds plans have been revealed we just look at them thru smoked glass as it were.

Matthew 24:25 " See, I have told you beforehand."

Revelation 1:1

Peace to you, keep the Faith.

Peace

[Guest shadow2b]

May I first say,

I harbour no ill will towards any Jew.I have been grafted in amongst them in the Spiritual part. The true part of Abrahams seed. My Savior is a Jew. Abraham has many seed even to this day. If the fleshy part of Israel is to be all saved because they are Abrahams fleshy seed? Why not his other fleshy seed as well? Paul said he and other Jews(The first true members of the church in Christ) were the elect under grace the remnant of Jews even as it is today. Even today Jews believe and become a remnant of G-ds perfect Spiritual Israel.

Dad Ernie,

Ch 9 reveals that Paul was lamenting that "his brothers in the flesh" had "missed" their day of salvation.

Ch 10 then tells us the outline of the Gospel of Jesus Christ by which the Jews (in fact everyone) must be saved, but Paul is specifically speaking of the Jews.

Agreed

No where in Romans does it state that all Israel of the flesh will be saved. Only (as in 11:23) if they do not continue in unbelief then G-d can graft them back in

That if is a big statement. For I feel if Paul knew for certain that all fleshy Israel was to be saved, (through belief and Spiritual conversion to the true Spiritual Israel the extension of the King who came, the Messiah. Who now leads true Israel of which we are a part) he wouldn't say if

Fleshy Israel was condemned and destroyed. They thought by destroying the Messiah they would take his kingdom(inheritence). The exact opposite happened he took away their inheritence. To be a light to the World, to represent G-d, to be his people, to minister to the World.

So all Israel is saved thru the Christ. The remnant, those grafted in branchs, whosever believes.

Shadow2b,

The seventy weeks you speak of are true. Each week consisted of 7 days. Each day was a year correct?

They were as in verse 24 of Daniel 9

To finish the transgression

To make an end of sins

To make reconcilliation for iniquity

To bring in everlasting righteousness

To seal up vision and prophecy

And to annoint the most Holy

in dan.9.-vs.-25.--accounts for only 69 weeks which leaves the 70/th week to be fulfilled when the anti-christ signs a seven year covenant with ISRAEL to guarantee their safety..--------- hope this is understandable------

I understand all that. The only problem is the seventy weeks were determined for Daniels people. The A.C can't fullfill a whit or a tither of that whether he signs a false contract or not.Even if he is ethnically Jewish. He wish's to falsify the work of Jesus. Who will sew up prophecy? Who already put an end to sin? Who reconcilled iniquity?Who has everlasting righteousness?

I say there is no 7 year tribulation because I think there is only 3 1/2 years left of the true 70 weeks of Daniels prophecy.

I don't care what the Beast does or say's when he comes to power.He is a lying deceiver anyway. He will try anything including twisting scripture to fool the Faithful.

.---- DOC IF james 1--1-- isn't speaking of the 12 tribes scattered abroad ,WHO in the wide eyed world is he referring to ??

James 1:1

James a bondservant of G-d and of the Lord Jesus Christ .

To the Twelve Tribes which are scattered abroad:Greetings.

He goes on to talk of patience in the Faith and perserverence in Tribulation.He sure wasn't talking to or about the fleshy non Christ believing Jews who were persecuting the Church.

He calls the Faithful Spiritual believers of Christ the twelve tribes of Israel.They were scattered abroad as the Faith spread.

Brother Shadow Jesus redeemed you and left you blameless before the throne of G-d.How great an act. To which we are not worthy except thru Grace.

I know better than to believe we are Raptured at Revelation 4's calling up of John. I am a Post Trib/ Pre Wrath believer.Amen

I said there were 19 different list's that don't agree with the list in Revelation7.

Look at the blessings of Jacob to his sons in Genesis 49. There is one list.

Also Numbers 1 there is a list which doesn't match. Search the old testament.Seek , Ask, Pray diligently.

I Posted this thread to deepen awareness. I lately have been on a Spiritual Quest to understand the Word of G-d.Really understand it.I seek his Holiness and a measure of understanding. To see him we must see in the Spirit. Not to say all scripture is symbolic either. I just feel and have been led to believe this is.

Look at the charecteristics of the 144,000

1. Multiple of twelve which is a multiple of 3 and 4. 3 representing the Trinity and 4 representing the 4 corners of the Earth of all humanity from which they come.

Look at Revelation 7:1-3 John see'e four mighty Angels standing at the 4 corners of the Earth holding the 4 winds .

Then another Angel comes and cry's out not to harm the Earth or the sea or the tree's until the servants of our G-d are sealed.

2. 144,000 are a great multitude that no man can number.Verse 9.

3.People from all over the Earth redeemed. Rev 14:3,4

4.People who trust Jesus. Rev 7:10

5.Value truth in their relationship with G-d and eachother.Rev 14:4,5

Snowdove,

Grace and peace to you also.

I think sometimes man puts too much effort into wanting to understand everything instead of having faith in G-d's plans.

I have Faith in G-ds plan to the utmost, of that you can be assured.

Exactly because I have Faith and the given Word I try to understand it. So as I can partake of it's blessings.

G-ds plans have been revealed we just look at them thru smoked glass as it were.

Matthew 24:25 " See, I have told you beforehand."

Revelation 1:1

Peace to you, keep the Faith.

Peace

[Snowdoove]

Everyday is a perfect day to say Thanks!

Thanks be to G-D!

My next door neighbour Pam, is a Jehovah Witness.

She believes that the 144,000 are priest who will administer to risen folks in the new Kingdom. She believes that there are some Jehovah Witness who will be these priests. Men and Women.

. :lightbulb:  :lightbulb:  :lightbulb:  

[starfire]

I belive that it more because the people in the Bible had no idea about millions.

[George]

Just wanted to throw out a question for discussion -- What tribes make up modern day Israel?  Judah and Benjamin.  Where are the other tribes listed in Revelation 7?  

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[Guest shadow2b]

Just wanted to throw out a question for discussion -- What tribes make up modern day Israel?

[George]

That's an interesting take on things Gary.  So basically the 144,000 is a past event and not a future event or did I misunderstand what you said?  

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George