EricH Posted November 5, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 5, 2009 The scriptures do not spell out the reasons that God made the trees available. One is left to speculate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted November 5, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,273 Content Per Day: 4.86 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted November 5, 2009 The tree was planted, so that man would fall, so that God could show His ultimate love for us by sending Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. 1Pe 1:20 (MKJV) indeed having been foreknown before the foundation of the world, but revealed in the last times for you, Jeremiah 1:15 is about Jeremiah, not all of us (even though God does know EVERYTHING, so He does know Adam and Eve even though they were not born the way we were). I'm sure that God would have preferred that Adam and Eve obeyed him and not eaten of the forbidden tree - it brought a curse on all mankind and all his creation. However, he had plan B in mind before it happened, luckily for all of us - the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus was NOT plan B. Jesus was and is the only plan God has ever had for us. That's right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Elly Posted November 5, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 415 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/31/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1945 Share Posted November 5, 2009 The tree was planted, so that man would fall, so that God could show His ultimate love for us by sending Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. 1Pe 1:20 (MKJV) indeed having been foreknown before the foundation of the world, but revealed in the last times for you, Jeremiah 1:15 is about Jeremiah, not all of us (even though God does know EVERYTHING, so He does know Adam and Eve even though they were not born the way we were). I'm sure that God would have preferred that Adam and Eve obeyed him and not eaten of the forbidden tree - it brought a curse on all mankind and all his creation. However, he had plan B in mind before it happened, luckily for all of us - the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus was NOT plan B. Jesus was and is the only plan God has ever had for us. I believe Plan A was for Adam and Eve NOT to sin. Of course God had another plan if they did and that was Jesus. Do you think God WANTED Adam and Eve to sin? In your first post, it seemed that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Elly Posted November 5, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 415 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/31/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1945 Share Posted November 5, 2009 The tree was planted, so that man would fall, so that God could show His ultimate love for us by sending Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. 1Pe 1:20 (MKJV) indeed having been foreknown before the foundation of the world, but revealed in the last times for you, Jeremiah 1:15 is about Jeremiah, not all of us (even though God does know EVERYTHING, so He does know Adam and Eve even though they were not born the way we were). I'm sure that God would have preferred that Adam and Eve obeyed him and not eaten of the forbidden tree - it brought a curse on all mankind and all his creation. However, he had plan B in mind before it happened, luckily for all of us - the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus was NOT plan B. Jesus was and is the only plan God has ever had for us. That's right! Is anyone reading what I said, maybe I did not make it clear. PLAN A was for Adam and Eve not to sin. PLAN B was already in place before they did, with the sacrifice of Jesus. Please do not make me sound like I don't know that Jesus was in the mind of God should Adam fail. Guess I did not make myself clear. People here are so quick sometimes to jump on a person like a dog with a bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 5, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 5, 2009 I believe Plan A was for Adam and Eve NOT to sin. Of course God had another plan if they did and that was Jesus. Do you think God WANTED Adam and Eve to sin? In your first post, it seemed that way. If I may. I don't think that was His "Plan A". God sees down through all of time. He knew that Satan would rebel and take 1/3 or the angels with him. He knew that Satan would tempt Eve and that she would be deceived by him. He also knew that Adam would disobey Him and also partake in the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He knew that He would save man from their sin through His Son. We don't know squat compared to the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted November 5, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 5, 2009 If you claim God had a plan A, and then whoops that didn't work, better go with plan B, then you are claiming that God either made a mistake or didn't have the foreknowledge of the fall. Both are wrong. Jesus is Plan A and there never has been a plan B. God doesn't need a back up plan . Man was always going to sin. Jesus was crucified for us from before all eternity. Why? To atone for our sins. How can He be crucified for sin if sin was not certain to occur? I am not saying that God authored sin, because sin is part of His permissive will and not His decretive (perfect) will, but God knew it was always going to happen and considered this in His decretive (perfect) will. God knew that Adam and Eve would fall, and He permitted it. No one is jumping on you like a dog with a bone. This is just normal discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Elly Posted November 6, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 415 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/31/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1945 Share Posted November 6, 2009 If you claim God had a plan A, and then whoops that didn't work, better go with plan B, then you are claiming that God either made a mistake or didn't have the foreknowledge of the fall. Both are wrong. Jesus is Plan A and there never has been a plan B. God doesn't need a back up plan . Man was always going to sin. Jesus was crucified for us from before all eternity. Why? To atone for our sins. How can He be crucified for sin if sin was not certain to occur? I am not saying that God authored sin, because sin is part of His permissive will and not His decretive (perfect) will, but God knew it was always going to happen and considered this in His decretive (perfect) will. God knew that Adam and Eve would fall, and He permitted it. No one is jumping on you like a dog with a bone. This is just normal discourse. No God did not make a mistake, Adam did. God did not want Adam to sin, that was his perfect will. And yes it does sound like the dog with the bone, I'm not claiming that God made a mistake or didn't have foreknowledge of the fall. Try a little kindness. No doubt ye are the people (Job - Holy Bible). Consider my comments over, as no doubt "ye are the people". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCMS Posted November 6, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 48 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1984 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 If you claim God had a plan A, and then whoops that didn't work, better go with plan B, then you are claiming that God either made a mistake or didn't have the foreknowledge of the fall. Both are wrong. Jesus is Plan A and there never has been a plan B. God doesn't need a back up plan . Man was always going to sin. Jesus was crucified for us from before all eternity. Why? To atone for our sins. How can He be crucified for sin if sin was not certain to occur? I am not saying that God authored sin, because sin is part of His permissive will and not His decretive (perfect) will, but God knew it was always going to happen and considered this in His decretive (perfect) will. God knew that Adam and Eve would fall, and He permitted it. Hmm, and see what makes me wonder why. Because the sin of Adam and Eve doomed all of mankind to sin. And it hurts God when we sin, though it's in our nature. But it's in our nature because of the mistake of Adam and Eve. Why was this allowed, is what I am curious about. Because God flooded the Earth shortly after, killing everything there was, because of the sin of man. So why was the sin allowed, if God knew in advance that they would sin anyways? "Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence. And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth." - Genesis 6:1-12 Genesis 6 says, ""And God said to Noah, 'I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth." God was upset because of the sin of man. They were violent and disobedient, so he flooded the earth and ended mankind. So, that makes me wonder WHY he allowed sin, knowing what the future would hold, basically. Hope my questions come across the way I'm trying to ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 6, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 6, 2009 Miss Elly, consider this. God, who knows that the power of love is the greatest power of all, when He created all that there is, He allowed all His creation to have a free will to choose what is truly in their hearts.1. He knew that there would be some that would follow after their own desires instead of after Him.2. Those who truly loved Him would follow His will in their lives. Those who are His would be His through love, not for any other reason.3. God could of created all there is to be perfect in every way, but that would be like having puppets, doing His will forever, without choosing. God wants us to be with Him, but only if it is in our hearts. Otherwise, He would of never given us free will to choose our own path in life. We can choose to follow Him, or our personal worldly desires. As I said before, God knew all that will ever happen before it ever happens. He knows the beginning from the end and all that is in between. 1. In both Matthew 6:21 and Luke 12:34, Jesus poke these words. "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." 2. We read in scripture many times about the desires of the world and thier evil ways. We, who are His, came out of this world, but those who desire to remain, do so by their own choice. Ephesians 2:1-3 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 3. Luke 10:27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted November 6, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 6, 2009 <snip> Hmm, and see what makes me wonder why. Because the sin of Adam and Eve doomed all of mankind to sin. And it hurts God when we sin, though it's in our nature. But it's in our nature because of the mistake of Adam and Eve. Why was this allowed, is what I am curious about. Because God flooded the Earth shortly after, killing everything there was, because of the sin of man. So why was the sin allowed, if God knew in advance that they would sin anyways? <snip> God was upset because of the sin of man. They were violent and disobedient, so he flooded the earth and ended mankind. So, that makes me wonder WHY he allowed sin, knowing what the future would hold, basically. <snip> So that He could send Jesus, to demonstrate His love for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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