memorykeeper Posted November 7, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2009 What does it mean in the bible when it refers to the "falling away" or apostasy before the 'son of perdition is revealed'? Is that referring to christians that are not christians any more or who have given up the Lord? were these christians ever christians in the first place or did something happen to them at this time to make them leave from following the Lord? memorykeeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2009 You will get agreement to both sides. Personally, I believe they were Christians. My reason is how can someone fall away from something that they never were? The next question will be falling away from what? I believe they will still be going to church, but falling away from the truth of scripture. As you view many of the major pastors, there are a lot who have built false doctrines and left the word, preaching their doctrines instead of His word. I have also seen pastors stand in frot of their congregation reading from another mans book and preaching that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorykeeper Posted November 7, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 I do believe they were christians too. The only thing is that I think is that church denominations are falling away from the truth, well, they are filled with people so its really people. How can a denomination start to believe something that is contrary to the bible now, when years ago, it was wrong? I just wonder if it is a part of this falling away from the truth. Truth 50 years ago, is still truth now. It seems like a cancer, this apostacy, that spreads from one to another. Does it mean these people are not christians anymore, or are they against the truth or just caught up in the tide of the way the world is now? Its kind of scary to me that people right before Jesus returns are falling away. Is it the pressure of the environment since things are getting worse? How can a person be kept from falling away? memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorykeeper Posted November 7, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Oh I just read a post where someone already wrote about this. It was very interesting so I guess its already been done. memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2009 Nobody but God knows if anyone is saved or not. There have been arguments that those who say "Lord Lord" thought they were saved also, so I just leave this up to He who will judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Elly Posted November 7, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 415 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/31/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1945 Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) I do believe they were christians too. The only thing is that I think is that church denominations are falling away from the truth, well, they are filled with people so its really people. How can a denomination start to believe something that is contrary to the bible now, when years ago, it was wrong? I just wonder if it is a part of this falling away from the truth. Truth 50 years ago, is still truth now. It seems like a cancer, this apostacy, that spreads from one to another. Does it mean these people are not christians anymore, or are they against the truth or just caught up in the tide of the way the world is now? Its kind of scary to me that people right before Jesus returns are falling away. Is it the pressure of the environment since things are getting worse? How can a person be kept from falling away? memory Satan knows his time is short and he is working overtime to deceive the world. One of his specialities is called "Rock-a-By Baby" - a lullaby to sing the churches to sleep. He has many other lies as well he is using. Why do churches turn from the truth? Well, look at Israel, how they backslid over and over until God delivered them to their captors. They they rejected Jesus and he scattered them. People have a form of godliness, but no power in the churches. Only a remanent will be saved. God help us all. I for one am going to keep praying that the Lord will keep me, he said he would. Yes, it is very sad and tragic, the condition the world is in, and especially the churches. Edited November 7, 2009 by Miss Elly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel joseph Posted November 7, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2009 What does it mean in the bible when it refers to the "falling away" or apostasy before the 'son of perdition is revealed'? Is that referring to christians that are not christians any more or who have given up the Lord? were these christians ever christians in the first place or did something happen to them at this time to make them leave from following the Lord? memorykeeper Hi Memorykeeper One view is that the great apostacy refers to the rapture of the church. The original terms used imply this. "the great apostacy" can also be interpreted "the great departure" It is talking about the definate article and not some general thing. But the context seems to imply a very large falling away from the faith. This is also confirmed by many other end time verses. I wrote a piece on the great apostacy edition 7 on my website at www.thepropheticscroll.org I have also spoken about it in the message to the seven churches edition 11 Either way, there will be a big departure and a big falling away from the faith. The once saved always saved doctrine doesn't carry any weight. Hebrews 6:4 "Its impossible for those who were once enlightened to come back...they would be twice cruicifying our Lord. Cheers Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2009 Yes, there are many "theories" out there from one end of the spectrum to the other. Place your trust in His word only. Read scripture and ask God to reveal to you what He meant. We are given the Holy Spirit for many reasons, one of them being to teach us all truth. Man will always fall short, myself included, but He never does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted November 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted November 8, 2009 What does it mean in the bible when it refers to the "falling away" or apostasy before the 'son of perdition is revealed'? Is that referring to christians that are not christians any more or who have given up the Lord? were these christians ever christians in the first place or did something happen to them at this time to make them leave from following the Lord? memorykeeper Hi Memorykeeper One view is that the great apostacy refers to the rapture of the church. The original terms used imply this. "the great apostacy" can also be interpreted "the great departure" It is talking about the definate article and not some general thing. But the context seems to imply a very large falling away from the faith. This is also confirmed by many other end time verses. I wrote a piece on the great apostacy edition 7 on my website at www.thepropheticscroll.org I have also spoken about it in the message to the seven churches edition 11 Either way, there will be a big departure and a big falling away from the faith. The once saved always saved doctrine doesn't carry any weight. Hebrews 6:4 "Its impossible for those who were once enlightened to come back...they would be twice cruicifying our Lord. Cheers Joel The Greek word apostasia means a defection or departing from a former standard, not a departure from a location. In answer to the question posted by the original poster, the II Thess 2 verse does indeed refer to a world-wide departure from correct doctrine. We can see evidence of this in every denomination in one way or another. While there have always been small differences in Christian teaching, this apostasy is a departing from the very foundational truths: The Trinity/Personage of Christ The Resurrection The Inspiration and Inerrancy of Scripture The Second Coming We're not talking modes of baptism or whether or not spiritual gifts still exist, but the very truths upon which the Christian faith is founded. The attack by Gog, through Magog (Satan's army) is against the Holy City (a euphemism for the Church) which is the repository of truth. One of the very places Magog has attacked is Christian seminaries. Liberal theology has been plaguing the Church for years, but now it's a flood. One denomination after another is falling publicly, most noticeably the recent apostasy of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America in permitting practicing homosexuals to preach as long as they are in a committed relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babbler Posted November 8, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 550 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/08/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2009 What does it mean in the bible when it refers to the "falling away" or apostasy before the 'son of perdition is revealed'? Is that referring to christians that are not christians any more or who have given up the Lord? were these christians ever christians in the first place or did something happen to them at this time to make them leave from following the Lord? memorykeeper The 7 churches in rvelation were succumbing to the pressures of their society and falling away from the truth. In Christ there is no lawlessness (sin) whereas the son of perdition is known as the lawless one. Paul said, "the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine but following their own desires, will surround themselves with teachers who tickle their ears." 2 Tim 4,3. You will notice this in the churches that are accepting homosexuality in their ministers and congregrants (Episcopalians, Reform Judaism, Lutherans, Presbyterians, United Methodists, United Church of Christ and others). In 1 Cor 6, 9 we are told not to be deceived that no sodomite will see the kingdom of God. These churches have become friends of the world and fallen from the truth. It is the beginning of a worldwide apostasy. "O you unfaithful ones, are you not aware that love of the world is enmmity to God? A man is marked out as God's enemy if he choses to be the world's friend." Jas 4,4 Worldwide the media has inundated the public with propaganda to accept homosexuality out of love and understanding. So we question our beliefs under this pressure. Don't! They set their mouths against the heavens, their tongues roam the earth. So my people turn to them and drink deeply of their words. They say, "Does God really know?" "Does the Most High have any knowledge?" ------------------- Had I thought, "I will speak as they do," I would have betrayed your people. Though I tried to understand all this, it was too difficult for me. Till I entered the sanctuary of God and came to understand their end.--Ps 73, 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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