Bold Believer Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Most Believers say "I want to go to heaven" or 'I'm going to heaven when I die." Is that really true? Yes and no. Heaven is the abode of God, angels and spirits. The Third Heaven belongs to God. The angels and righteous spirits awaiting the resurrection go to heaven, but our ultimate destination is the New Earth, NOT heaven. Man was never made to dwell in heaven, but on the earth in an Edenic state. God created Earth just for us and on the Last Day the earth will be made new (renewed if you will) and the Church (the Bride, the Holy City) will down out of heaven having met Christ in the air, and we will reoccupy the earth. I'm not sure where the idea of eternity in heaven comes from, but the Scripture doesn't indicate that to be the ul;timate case. Will you go to heaven as a Believer? In spirit to await the resurrection, absolutely. After the resurrection, no. That is not to say that we will be 'earthbound' so to speak, only that our ultimate home will be the New Earth. (Before anyone asks, no, I am NOT a Jehovah's Witness. I don't buy a bit of their heresies. That said, a stopped clock is right twice a day.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2009 Most Believers say "I want to go to heaven" or 'I'm going to heaven when I die." Is that really true? Yes and no. Heaven is the abode of God, angels and spirits. The Third Heaven belongs to God. The angels and righteous spirits awaiting the resurrection go to heaven, but our ultimate destination is the New Earth, NOT heaven. Man was never made to dwell in heaven, but on the earth in an Edenic state. God created Earth just for us and on the Last Day the earth will be made new (renewed if you will) and the Church (the Bride, the Holy City) will down out of heaven having met Christ in the air, and we will reoccupy the earth. I'm not sure where the idea of eternity in heaven comes from, but the Scripture doesn't indicate that to be the ul;timate case. Will you go to heaven as a Believer? In spirit to await the resurrection, absolutely. After the resurrection, no. That is not to say that we will be 'earthbound' so to speak, only that our ultimate home will be the New Earth. (Before anyone asks, no, I am NOT a Jehovah's Witness. I don't buy a bit of their heresies. That said, a stopped clock is right twice a day.) That's what I believe the Bible shows...from what I understand this idea of going to Heaven is not theologically sound, and is based on such things as John 14 ...I go and prepare a place for you....in My Fathers house are many mansions etc. I think the transitional period between our ressurected life on the New Earth is a bit of a mystery, and open to some inspired guess-work (scripturally based of course)...do we literally sleep, until the voice of the L-rd ressurects us, or do we go to Heaven for a period, or is there some other holding area? Many believe that when Jesus led captivity captive, and proclaimed victory to the souls in Paradise/Sheol, they were taken up to dwell in Heaven....and it could be that we dwell in some part of Heaven without out new bodies until the time comes for everyone to be ressurected. I'm not a JW either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2009 Most Believers say "I want to go to heaven" or 'I'm going to heaven when I die." Is that really true? Yes and no. Heaven is the abode of God, angels and spirits. The Third Heaven belongs to God. The angels and righteous spirits awaiting the resurrection go to heaven, but our ultimate destination is the New Earth, NOT heaven. Man was never made to dwell in heaven, but on the earth in an Edenic state. God created Earth just for us and on the Last Day the earth will be made new (renewed if you will) and the Church (the Bride, the Holy City) will down out of heaven having met Christ in the air, and we will reoccupy the earth. I'm not sure where the idea of eternity in heaven comes from, but the Scripture doesn't indicate that to be the ul;timate case. Will you go to heaven as a Believer? In spirit to await the resurrection, absolutely. After the resurrection, no. That is not to say that we will be 'earthbound' so to speak, only that our ultimate home will be the New Earth. (Before anyone asks, no, I am NOT a Jehovah's Witness. I don't buy a bit of their heresies. That said, a stopped clock is right twice a day.) Okay, so put it in terms a 4-year-old can understand. Seems perfectly clear to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Well Im going to heaven where the streets are paved with gold and the river of life is lined with 12 fruit trees and I get to travel the universe. This earth is not going to be renewed but rolled up like a scroll and discarded as trash, God is making a new earth, but I doubt it will be so that we inhabit it in any fashion like here. We will have glorified bodies that do not need food and can be transported accross the universe at will. Seriously you think we are coming back here after being raptured? God is going to erase all the sorry and sad memories of such a sorry and sad place.IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted December 1, 2009 From Luke Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." From Matthew So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. 29"Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c] 30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 1, 2009 OK, at first I thought you were saying we don't go to Heaven at all. But that's not what you are saying, right? You are saying that after the resurrection and the creation of the New Heaven and New Earth, we will be living on the new Earth, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2009 OK, at first I thought you were saying we don't go to Heaven at all. But that's not what you are saying, right? You are saying that after the resurrection and the creation of the New Heaven and New Earth, we will be living on the new Earth, correct? Thats what I heard. This might be slicing the baloney a little thin since in Revelation 21 and 22 the new heaven and earth both seem to be the dwelling place of God. But I appreciate the spirit of the post. We sometimes confuse the intermediate state with the final state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 OK, at first I thought you were saying we don't go to Heaven at all. But that's not what you are saying, right? You are saying that after the resurrection and the creation of the New Heaven and New Earth, we will be living on the new Earth, correct? Exactly. I am reasonably convinced that we will go into the Third Heaven for worship at times, led by Christ and his holy angels. The trees which are the healing of the nations are the Apostles and the leaves, their teachings (or those who follow after them) and not literal. The stream (river of life) is Christ Himself, He is the refreshing water which flows from the throne of our God. Outside of Him, there IS no life. Streets of gold in heaven...maybe so, but the passage that refers to them is describing a pre-resurrection heaven. The gold is so pure, it's like glass, transparent. Do we go to heaven when we die? Of course. Our spirit returns to God who made it, to await its reuniting with the body. Our body goes into the ground and awaits the resurrection. When the two are joined...we dwell on the New Earth. Will we travel the universe? Who can say. Perhaps yay, perhaps nay. The New Earth will be even greater than Eden in its paradise like scope. With no sin to decay and no death to ruin everything, who knows what we will we there. It's beyond the scope of our imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Well Im going to heaven where the streets are paved with gold and the river of life is lined with 12 fruit trees and I get to travel the universe. This earth is not going to be renewed but rolled up like a scroll and discarded as trash, God is making a new earth, but I doubt it will be so that we inhabit it in any fashion like here. We will have glorified bodies that do not need food and can be transported accross the universe at will. Seriously you think we are coming back here after being raptured? God is going to erase all the sorry and sad memories of such a sorry and sad place.IMO The current earth and its works will be burned up (II Peter 3) at the last day. The word new in Revelation 21 is kainos new and and unworn in its form, and as referring to substance, a new kind. That being said, the Scripture also tells us that the earth remains forever (Ecc 1:4). The impression I get is that while the outer form of this present earth will destroyed by God's cleansing fire, the PLANET itself will remain. The core of this present earth is molten lava, quite descriptive of the Lake of Fire. Isaiah 66 indicates that the righteous will gaze on the wicked (v 24) in the Lake of Fire, and uses the same language in Isaiah that Jesus uses in the New Testament. So then, the idea of a second planet being created doesn't wash. The outer portion is new in substance and form (no more seas, total tropical environment) and connected to a Heaven which is likewise changed. I think of the situation as like a present which you can only see the outside of the box. As long as you're stuck with seeing the wrapping paper, you have to make do, but when God opens the present so to speak, the REAL TREASURE is inside. At the Second Coming, God burns off the wrapping paper which we've had to look at for so long and reveals the true nature and bounty of Creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,273 Content Per Day: 4.83 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted December 1, 2009 The New Jerusalem will be too big to rest on the planet. I believe that it will be above the Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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