Matthitjah Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2009 I think your all missing the point. Everything has a purpose, but is it useful? Staring at the ceiling can have a useful purpose. My question was can a Christian have a clear conscience doing that which is not useful? Remember we will have to give account for every idle word spoken. I did not ask if vain things were enjoyable, but if they were morally right. Please dont use a different definition of vain than intended or how can we get anywhere comparing apples to oranges? Grace to you, As a man who came from the stifling strangulation of Religion, I would urge you not to wear such a yoke. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 . . : Now please answer me how a Christian in can good conscience indulge in any vain activity while here on earth and not be guilty of the blood of those perishing.? Eph. 2:8 For by Grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves; it is a gift of God. If God's word are true, and they are, how could any man save another; so then, how could any man be guilty for those who perish. Furthermore: De. 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: everyone shall be put to death for their own sins ( bold emphasis added by me) Now, if you want to call attention to the fact that vain activity is not productive and that the time waisted engaging in such activity could be better used to further the Great Commission...fine no problem there. If you wish to talk about how vain secular things are a distraction and how they can shift a persons focus off of Christ...thats OK as well; But to imply that poor stewardship of ones time somehow makes them guilty of another souls destruction and eternal damnation IMO is nothing more than a cheap guilt trip in an effort to inflict your will upon others. God does call upon us to share His Word...I do not recall a specification that it be done 24/7. Hi HunterPoet, Im not stressing 24/7 evangelism or even that all evangelise. If doing something vain with no purpose while souls are perishing does not incur guilt, then I guess we are free to anything we like and God just smiles? Come now, surely you can see that we all must weigh up the good we can do by our choices, or else be held accountable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherTraveler Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,595 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2009 Morals are not a set of rules, they are a choice made by individuals as to what they do or do not allow. The Apostle Paul made tents, was that a vain activity? He preached against observing the law as Christians, but he also observed many tenants of the law, almost as occasion would allow. He preached against circumcision, and yet he circumsized a traveling companion, was this morally wrong? He was told to NOT GO to Jesusalem in prophecy and in vision, yet he went, was that morally wrong? Does God require us to witness with each breath? There are millions going to hell, why do we waste time in any other activity? These are questions that are tinted with a measure of zeal, but not with wisdom. God knows that we need rest, we need food, we need interaction with others, and we also need to withdraw sometimes to renew ourselves and recharge ourselves. We all should have a much greater level of spiritual walking, I am sure, but He is the one that calls us, that motivates us, that annoints us, and we are commanded to obey Him. Certainly we should behave ourselves, but having a hobby, or a distraction from the pressures of life, is not immoral of itself, but we must each submit to whatever God requires of us, being careful not to cast a snare on our brethren because of our zeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2009 . . : Now please answer me how a Christian in can good conscience indulge in any vain activity while here on earth and not be guilty of the blood of those perishing.? Eph. 2:8 For by Grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves; it is a gift of God. If God's word are true, and they are, how could any man save another; so then, how could any man be guilty for those who perish. Furthermore: De. 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: everyone shall be put to death for their own sins ( bold emphasis added by me) Now, if you want to call attention to the fact that vain activity is not productive and that the time waisted engaging in such activity could be better used to further the Great Commission...fine no problem there. If you wish to talk about how vain secular things are a distraction and how they can shift a persons focus off of Christ...thats OK as well; But to imply that poor stewardship of ones time somehow makes them guilty of another souls destruction and eternal damnation IMO is nothing more than a cheap guilt trip in an effort to inflict your will upon others. God does call upon us to share His Word...I do not recall a specification that it be done 24/7. Hi HunterPoet, Im not stressing 24/7 evangelism or even that all evangelise. If doing something vain with no purpose while souls are perishing does not incur guilt, then I guess we are free to anything we like and God just smiles? Come now, surely you can see that we all must weigh up the good we can do by our choices, or else be held accountable? Grace to you, Joh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 I think your all missing the point. Everything has a purpose, but is it useful? Staring at the ceiling can have a useful purpose. My question was can a Christian have a clear conscience doing that which is not useful? Remember we will have to give account for every idle word spoken. I did not ask if vain things were enjoyable, but if they were morally right. Please dont use a different definition of vain than intended or how can we get anywhere comparing apples to oranges? Grace to you, As a man who came from the stifling strangulation of Religion, I would urge you not to wear such a yoke. Peace, Dave Hi Dave I think you are assuming too much. The Joy of the Lord is my strength and He gives me food for working for Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherTraveler Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,595 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2009 Matthitjah is right, in what I have read, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCISGD Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 . . : Now please answer me how a Christian in can good conscience indulge in any vain activity while here on earth and not be guilty of the blood of those perishing.? Eph. 2:8 For by Grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves; it is a gift of God. If God's word are true, and they are, how could any man save another; so then, how could any man be guilty for those who perish. Furthermore: De. 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: everyone shall be put to death for their own sins ( bold emphasis added by me) Now, if you want to call attention to the fact that vain activity is not productive and that the time waisted engaging in such activity could be better used to further the Great Commission...fine no problem there. If you wish to talk about how vain secular things are a distraction and how they can shift a persons focus off of Christ...thats OK as well; But to imply that poor stewardship of ones time somehow makes them guilty of another souls destruction and eternal damnation IMO is nothing more than a cheap guilt trip in an effort to inflict your will upon others. God does call upon us to share His Word...I do not recall a specification that it be done 24/7. Hi HunterPoet, Im not stressing 24/7 evangelism or even that all evangelise. If doing something vain with no purpose while souls are perishing does not incur guilt, then I guess we are free to anything we like and God just smiles? Come now, surely you can see that we all must weigh up the good we can do by our choices, or else be held accountable? Grace to you, Joh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2009 I think your all missing the point. Everything has a purpose, but is it useful? Staring at the ceiling can have a useful purpose. My question was can a Christian have a clear conscience doing that which is not useful? Remember we will have to give account for every idle word spoken. I did not ask if vain things were enjoyable, but if they were morally right. Please dont use a different definition of vain than intended or how can we get anywhere comparing apples to oranges? Grace to you, As a man who came from the stifling strangulation of Religion, I would urge you not to wear such a yoke. Peace, Dave Hi Dave I think you are assuming too much. The Joy of the Lord is my strength and He gives me food for working for Him. Honestly brother, I'm not the only one reading that into your question and subsequent posting. However, I would that you forgive me then. Here's the deal though. If I were as concerned about how I spent every waking moment walking around, whether in the flesh or in the Spirit, I wouldn't get any sleep and would probably be useless to the Lord. It's absolutely stifling. I don't really like secular music and haven't listened to much since I've been Saved. My wife does. However, recently on a Saturday jaunt out with my wife. I put the radio on a local 80's station and we enjoyed all this music from our youth. It was fun, relaxing, and further bonded our Marriage together. Was this vain? Should I saddle my wife with my personal convictions about secular music? Is God upset with me for enjoying my wife and her company and sharing an enjoyable time with her? Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2009 . . : Now please answer me how a Christian in can good conscience indulge in any vain activity while here on earth and not be guilty of the blood of those perishing.? Eph. 2:8 For by Grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves; it is a gift of God. If God's word are true, and they are, how could any man save another; so then, how could any man be guilty for those who perish. Furthermore: De. 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: everyone shall be put to death for their own sins ( bold emphasis added by me) Now, if you want to call attention to the fact that vain activity is not productive and that the time waisted engaging in such activity could be better used to further the Great Commission...fine no problem there. If you wish to talk about how vain secular things are a distraction and how they can shift a persons focus off of Christ...thats OK as well; But to imply that poor stewardship of ones time somehow makes them guilty of another souls destruction and eternal damnation IMO is nothing more than a cheap guilt trip in an effort to inflict your will upon others. God does call upon us to share His Word...I do not recall a specification that it be done 24/7. Hi HunterPoet, Im not stressing 24/7 evangelism or even that all evangelise. If doing something vain with no purpose while souls are perishing does not incur guilt, then I guess we are free to anything we like and God just smiles? Come now, surely you can see that we all must weigh up the good we can do by our choices, or else be held accountable? Grace to you, Joh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted December 3, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2009 . . : Now please answer me how a Christian in can good conscience indulge in any vain activity while here on earth and not be guilty of the blood of those perishing.? Eph. 2:8 For by Grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves; it is a gift of God. If God's word are true, and they are, how could any man save another; so then, how could any man be guilty for those who perish. Furthermore: De. 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: everyone shall be put to death for their own sins ( bold emphasis added by me) Now, if you want to call attention to the fact that vain activity is not productive and that the time waisted engaging in such activity could be better used to further the Great Commission...fine no problem there. If you wish to talk about how vain secular things are a distraction and how they can shift a persons focus off of Christ...thats OK as well; But to imply that poor stewardship of ones time somehow makes them guilty of another souls destruction and eternal damnation IMO is nothing more than a cheap guilt trip in an effort to inflict your will upon others. God does call upon us to share His Word...I do not recall a specification that it be done 24/7. Hi HunterPoet, Im not stressing 24/7 evangelism or even that all evangelise. If doing something vain with no purpose while souls are perishing does not incur guilt, then I guess we are free to anything we like and God just smiles? Come now, surely you can see that we all must weigh up the good we can do by our choices, or else be held accountable? Grace to you, Joh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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