Spiritual Gifts, Miracles, Prophesies

[Miss Elly]

The danger I see in "faith healing" churches is that they seem to marvel in themselves. If these gifts and these healings are being done by Christ, why are so many crediting themselves? I have just dipped my feet into a few of these types of churches and it seems more people are interested in what they can do than what God can do. Make sense? This to me can be very dangerous IMO. If we are going to do these things, we need to make it extremely clear that it is not our power in force. These powers IMO should also be brought to unbelievers more than to Christians themselves. Of course, we need healing too, but we cannot do these things for our own "entertainment". Use these powers to SAVE people.

I will not deny that God can make these things happen. But I will do as many have advised me...proceed carefully and find a "medium". If we flat out deny that these healings are happening, these tongues are being spoken, these miracles are real, then who is behind them? If it isn't God...then wouldn't it be nasty old satan himself (aka puckerface....thanks yod!)? If denying these wonders isn't blasphemy of the spirit then I don't know what is.

Anyone correct me if I am wrong and I pray the Lord will do the same.

I don't see where you are necessarily wrong. Understanding who is behind what, is important. And certainly we should not be taking credit for God's work, but credit, praise, honor, and glory belong to the Lord.

Still most of those ministries in which I have seen healing in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ are giving glory, honor, and praise to our Lord Jesus Christ. I would not want to degrade them. I'm in southern California, and have been to several of Benny Hinn's miracles crusades and they praised, gloified and gave honor to Jesus Christ and I saw what looked like upto five hundred people claiming to have gotten heal. The Scriptures talk against those who are scoffers. If the healing are somehow giving glory to the Lord I don't see why Satan of those following him would be behind it.

It is very simple, to be honest with you. If Satan can get someone to believe that a false teacher can perform healing and miracles from God, they will have to accept the false teachings as true. How else could one explain that God is using that person, since God only uses His own? So, by deceiving them to believe that a false teacher can heal and perform miracles, Satan can then get them to follow a lie, turning them from the truth, from life to death.

Still it is not by what we see that we should judge, nor should we make the judgement on our understanging. We have the ability to talk to the Lord ourselves and He answers. He never seems to answer like I think. His thoughts are not my thoughts. He not always gives me a straight yes or no either. Usually He seems to prefer leading me through some things so that I will get understanding and not just an answer.

I agree, but will also add that any answer we do receive, no matter how it is done, has to line up with scripture in order for it to be true. We should not look at what is goign on, but the message behind the action. I have never heard of Satan healing, but I do very much believe that he can stop the attacks on people in order to get then to believe they are healed, when only an attack has ceased.

Is it not enough to believe that all things are possible with the Lord, then ask Him to do His will in our life? If He tells someone like a Benny Hinn to do a healing ministry, then praise the Lord. He has asked me to pray for people and I have seen Him heal them, but not like that and in those numbers. My ministry is not like his at all. We all have different purposes in the body, but let us becareful not to scoff, least we find ourselves scoffing at the work of the Lord. And let us not be unaware, and that is the point you are making isn't it Or'el Shalhevet?

Good post.

No, it is not enough to just believe everything that happens. God can do all things, and Satan is trying his best to duplicate them, even to the point of almost deceiving the very elect. Matthew 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." We have to test all things to see if they come from God or not. To just accept is foolish, for even the magicians in Egypt were able to duplicate some of Gods plagues. Be careful when you are told to believe blindly ... always search to see if it is from God or the deceiver.

I fail to see how the devil can "heal" me when I am asking God for my healing. It's simple to me, the devil came to kill, steal and destroy, Jesus came that we might have life and have it more abundantly. If you were blind and someone laid his hands on you and prayed for God to heal you and you were healed, do you really think that could be satan? I don't think so, after all wouldn't you be praying to God yourself? There are many folks shaking and faking out there and not necessarily with the power of God. Christians need discernment. I firmly believe though, even if a "healer" is a phony, that if a true child of God asks in faith believing, expecting to receive something from the LORD, not the preacher, there is no reason why their THEIR faith should not be rewarded. The word of God builds faith. If God can use a donkey, then maybe he can use these false apostles because of his word, NOT the deceiving lives they lead. If they don't repent, they will have all of eternity to regret it.

[nebula]

But as you know deliverance came to all that "called in the Lord" so it was never the gentiles "last days" but that was directed to the Jews.

What kind of theology is that?

Another version of Replacement Theology?

[OneLight]

Not all signs, wonders, healing and miracles are from God. Scripture plainly warns against just accepting them blindly. Scripture tells us that before He returns, there will be false christs, false teachers and false prophets, all doing great signs and wonder.

We are strongly instructed not to just accept everything as from God. We are to test all things to see if they are of God or not. If you witness something, look at the one preforming these things, understand the message they follow and see if it lines up with scripture. If it does not, then realize that the works being preformed is not of God, period. Do be deceived. God only uses those who follow Him.

Remember tha J esus warned that there will many who come saying the Jesus is Christ, but will deceive many.

Matthew 24:5

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

[exrockstar]

But as you know deliverance came to all that "called in the Lord" so it was never the gentiles "last days" but that was directed to the Jews.

What kind of theology is that?

Another version of Replacement Theology?

Salvation is to all Jews and Gentiles.

It was prophecised that the Jews would have rejected Christ. Here you are seeing a prophecy unfold.

I'm not saying that Christians replaced the Jews however some embraced Christ and some did not.

[OneLight]

I fail to see how the devil can "heal" me when I am asking God for my healing. It's simple to me, the devil came to kill, steal and destroy, Jesus came that we might have life and have it more abundantly. If you were blind and someone laid his hands on you and prayed for God to heal you and you were healed, do you really think that could be satan? I don't think so, after all wouldn't you be praying to God yourself? There are many folks shaking and faking out there and not necessarily with the power of God. Christians need discernment. I firmly believe though, even if a "healer" is a phony, that if a true child of God asks in faith believing, expecting to receive something from the LORD, not the preacher, there is no reason why their THEIR faith should not be rewarded. The word of God builds faith. If God can use a donkey, then maybe he can use these false apostles because of his word, NOT the deceiving lives they lead. If they don't repent, they will have all of eternity to regret it.

You are not understanding my point. True healing comes only from God and He does heal!

When false preachers (teachers), or false prophets, come and perform what people believe are healing, they are not doing Gods work, but that of the deceiver. Satan can buffet a person to the point where they seek healing from God. Lets say that they go to a healing service of a false teacher and they are prayed over. Was the "healing" from God or did Satan just stop buffeting the person so it looks like they are healed? Remember! Since this person is a false teacher, they are not doing Gods work, but the deceiver, even if the pain is gone.

By Satan ceasing from buffeting the person, the person would believe that the false teacher if from God, so they start to follow the false teaching, being deceived, leavign the truth, and followign a lie unto death, which is excately the goal from Satan from the very beginning.

Always know the teachings and beliefs of those whom you seek healing from. Never take anyone's word for it. Search as much as possible understand what they are bringing as truth, and see if it lines up with scripture. IF it does not, then the person doing the work is not of God.

Read for yourself that not all signs and wonders are of God. sign wonder

[nebula]

Salvation is to all Jews and Gentiles.

Agreed

It was prophecised that the Jews would have rejected Christ.

I am interested in reading this/these prophecies. Would you post them for me please? Thanks!

Here you are seeing a prophecy unfold.

You see this happening in Acts chapter 2?

3000 Jews came to faith in Messiah that day! And more followed.

I'm not saying that Christians replaced the Jews however some embraced Christ and some did not.

Same with Gentiles. We are no different than they.

[~Shalhevet~]

No, it is not enough to just believe everything that happens. God can do all things, and Satan is trying his best to duplicate them, even to the point of almost deceiving the very elect. Matthew 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." We have to test all things to see if they come from God or not. To just accept is foolish, for even the magicians in Egypt were able to duplicate some of Gods plagues. Be careful when you are told to believe blindly ... always search to see if it is from God or the deceiver.

This is why I am on-guard in healing churches.

[Miss Elly]

I fail to see how the devil can "heal" me when I am asking God for my healing. It's simple to me, the devil came to kill, steal and destroy, Jesus came that we might have life and have it more abundantly. If you were blind and someone laid his hands on you and prayed for God to heal you and you were healed, do you really think that could be satan? I don't think so, after all wouldn't you be praying to God yourself? There are many folks shaking and faking out there and not necessarily with the power of God. Christians need discernment. I firmly believe though, even if a "healer" is a phony, that if a true child of God asks in faith believing, expecting to receive something from the LORD, not the preacher, there is no reason why their THEIR faith should not be rewarded. The word of God builds faith. If God can use a donkey, then maybe he can use these false apostles because of his word, NOT the deceiving lives they lead. If they don't repent, they will have all of eternity to regret it.

You are not understanding my point. True healing comes only from God and He does heal!

When false preachers (teachers), or false prophets, come and perform what people believe are healing, they are not doing Gods work, but that of the deceiver. Satan can buffet a person to the point where they seek healing from God. Lets say that they go to a healing service of a false teacher and they are prayed over. Was the "healing" from God or did Satan just stop buffeting the person so it looks like they are healed? Remember! Since this person is a false teacher, they are not doing Gods work, but the deceiver, even if the pain is gone.

By Satan ceasing from buffeting the person, the person would believe that the false teacher if from God, so they start to follow the false teaching, being deceived, leavign the truth, and followign a lie unto death, which is excately the goal from Satan from the very beginning.

Always know the teachings and beliefs of those whom you seek healing from. Never take anyone's word for it. Search as much as possible understand what they are bringing as truth, and see if it lines up with scripture. IF it does not, then the person doing the work is not of God.

Read for yourself that not all signs and wonders are of God. sign wonder

This makes far less sense than just trusting God for one's healing, no matter who is praying. Also why would a person leave the truth just because they were healed (if they were)? The persons in question would surely have to be very ignorant of their bible and cannot discern if another person is a true believer. However, I have been in many revivals and heard many ministers preach and pray for the sick. I can assure you that many are not of the devil. Also, the Holy Spirit has always helped me to discern if the person is a false prophet. My point here is that Tif THE INDIVIDUAL IS TRUSTING GOD when they are prayed for then why would the devil answer their prayer? Are we to believe that everytime we get prayer for healing that we may need to worry that the devil may "heal" us or "stop buffeting" us? And if we are praying to God we still have to worry? I'm covered by the blood of Jesus, I don't worry about what the "devil" may try to do. Sorry Traveler, you're one of the good guys on this forum, but I disagree. Enough said.

[Vince53]

On another forum, I posted an article about how we are to seek the better gifts, explaining that we are allowed to have more than one gift. When they transferred my post from the Baptist forum to the charismatic forum, I objected that I am a Baptist, and we are allowed to believe in spiritual gifts.

They politely refused.

[OneLight]

I fail to see how the devil can "heal" me when I am asking God for my healing. It's simple to me, the devil came to kill, steal and destroy, Jesus came that we might have life and have it more abundantly. If you were blind and someone laid his hands on you and prayed for God to heal you and you were healed, do you really think that could be satan? I don't think so, after all wouldn't you be praying to God yourself? There are many folks shaking and faking out there and not necessarily with the power of God. Christians need discernment. I firmly believe though, even if a "healer" is a phony, that if a true child of God asks in faith believing, expecting to receive something from the LORD, not the preacher, there is no reason why their THEIR faith should not be rewarded. The word of God builds faith. If God can use a donkey, then maybe he can use these false apostles because of his word, NOT the deceiving lives they lead. If they don't repent, they will have all of eternity to regret it.

You are not understanding my point. True healing comes only from God and He does heal!

When false preachers (teachers), or false prophets, come and perform what people believe are healing, they are not doing Gods work, but that of the deceiver. Satan can buffet a person to the point where they seek healing from God. Lets say that they go to a healing service of a false teacher and they are prayed over. Was the "healing" from God or did Satan just stop buffeting the person so it looks like they are healed? Remember! Since this person is a false teacher, they are not doing Gods work, but the deceiver, even if the pain is gone.

By Satan ceasing from buffeting the person, the person would believe that the false teacher if from God, so they start to follow the false teaching, being deceived, leavign the truth, and followign a lie unto death, which is excately the goal from Satan from the very beginning.

Always know the teachings and beliefs of those whom you seek healing from. Never take anyone's word for it. Search as much as possible understand what they are bringing as truth, and see if it lines up with scripture. IF it does not, then the person doing the work is not of God.

Read for yourself that not all signs and wonders are of God. sign wonder

This makes far less sense than just trusting God for one's healing, no matter who is praying. Also why would a person leave the truth just because they were healed (if they were)? The persons in question would surely have to be very ignorant of their bible and cannot discern if another person is a true believer. However, I have been in many revivals and heard many ministers preach and pray for the sick. I can assure you that many are not of the devil. Also, the Holy Spirit has always helped me to discern if the person is a false prophet. My point here is that Tif THE INDIVIDUAL IS TRUSTING GOD when they are prayed for then why would the devil answer their prayer? Are we to believe that everytime we get prayer for healing that we may need to worry that the devil may "heal" us or "stop buffeting" us? And if we are praying to God we still have to worry? I'm covered by the blood of Jesus, I don't worry about what the "devil" may try to do. Sorry Traveler, you're one of the good guys on this forum, but I disagree. Enough said.

Miss Elly,

You are taking what I am saying about false teachers and are applying them to true Christians, which is not what I am saying. Never once did I allude to anything about there not being real healing being done. In fact, I 100% believe there are. I also 100% believe that there are workers of the enemy, deceiving people through so called healing, which are not real healing. There is a difference between the two.

Do you believe that there will be those who come. saying the Jesus is Christ, yet are not one of His, deceiving even the very elect, if possible? Do you believe that there will be false teachers, false prophets and false christs int eh last days? This is the group that I am speaking of, and the signs and wonders they will, and are already, committing.

Miss Elly, I pointed you to scripture through the link I provided. Please read them to see more of what I am saying, specifically Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22 and 2 Thessalonians 2:9. Read it in context to get the full meaning. Along with Gods works, there are works of the devil.