Where's America II?

[tsth]

Dear Lorie,

I can totally relate.  I have been feeling a little troubled over the fact that I have family who are really difficult to witness to, only because I know that they are still wondering what in the world is going on with me.  They look at me as if I have gone over the edge or something, but, they do not say a word.  And, neither do I, much     I feel as though I have been sleeping  :sleeping:  but now,  :butbut:  it is time to speak.  I feel like they may not receive what I have to say right now, but that things will occur in the future, and they will remember.  Kind of like the Joseph story, here's a verse that is kindred with this thought.

Psalm 105:16 When he summoned famine against the land, and broke every staff of bread, 17 he had sent a man ahead of them, Joseph, who was sold as a slave. 18 His feet were hurt with fetters, his neck was put in a collar of iron; 19 until what he had said came to pass, the word of the Lord kept testing him.

As I said Lorie, I was feeling like you as well, and then our pastor did a sermon on the call of Joseph to his family to come to him, and be spared the famine that was upon the land. (Genesis 45)  Our pastor was compelling us to begin to pray about calling those within our families to come to Jesus Christ.  The parrallels were really awesome, in terms of Joseph calling his own family into relief.  So, needless to say, I am no longer waiting, today is the day.

2 Corinthians 6:2 For he says, "At an acceptable time I have listened to you, and on a day of salvation I have helped you." See, now is the acceptable time; see, now is the day of salvation!

Hebrews 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today, if you hear his voice,

Heb 3:15 - As it is said, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."

Heb 4:7 -

again he sets a certain day

[Guest C.D. Light]

Jipsah--The things you said must happen before rapture is not true. All those thing are to happen after rapture.

I personally don't believe that anything has to happen before the Lord's return except for Him to decide that it's time.

[Matthitjah]

Now I'm reading Matthew 24

The way I read it is. The disciples ask, when shall these things be?and what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the world?

We've all read his answers.

I'm looking at verses 15 - 23.

I haven't seen the abomination of Desolation yet.

I haven't even seen the third Temple rebuilt so as the abomination of Desolation has a place to stand.

The days have not been shortened as to save the very elect(Bride).

Now in Verses 29-31.

I haven't seen the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

Now in Luke17 verse 26-30

We shall be here even as Lot was until the Fire and Brimstone started falling.

G-d would not pass up an opportunity like that to save people. If we leave before these things pass, who will preach the gospel. Look at the death and destruction of 9/11. Yet look at how the churchs filled the day after. No my friends I would have to side with the Post Trib Pre Wrath crowd on this one. Remember don't take the mark.

As far as family is concerned I've talked till I'm blue in the face. They look at me like I'm an alien. Then say prove it. So I lift the verses. My brothers favorite saying is anyone can lift a verse out of context. They just can't see it because they are in unbelief or are backslidden. So my ferverent hope is that when these things come to pass they will remember me and start praying and asking questions.

I took every opportunity after 9/11 when everyone was still shocked and searching for answers. To some I said I believed in G-d. To others I testified Jesus is coming and layed down the proof. To a particular Jewish friend I pointed out Old Testament scripture for present day events. He was alarmed the end was already here. I said this is only the beggining. I don't know if I impacted them or not. I heard the Gospel many times many ways until G-d thought I was ready. When the time was right he reached down, and caught me up like a fish and I'm still a work in progress. Some are like Thomas though and will not believe until they see these things start to pass. As my Jewish friend said, I thought this was the end, then every thing settled down.

Take the opportunity when it is presented. You don't know what the long term effect will be. Even so don't give up.Someone once cared to tell me and so I have life abundently. Peace be with you all. Thanks be to G-d. Amen

:inlove:  :inlove:  :inlove:

[Adstar]

Matthew 24:3-22

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

4And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, "I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[1] these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[2] and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.

What 9"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake."

If where all going to be ruptured before the tribulation The Messiah must be wrong in what He said here. Does He lie?

10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

15 "Therefore when you see the "abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),

 15 "Therefore when you see the "abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place"

When we see "the abomination of desolation"? But I thought we would have been rapture by then? Is the Messiah lieing again?

16"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

"20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath."

!!We should pray that our flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath?!! Why should we pray, we won't be there. Looks like the Messiah must be a liar. Or is He?

21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

The Messiah Is definitely NOT a Liar. His WORD is true He will never deceive us.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[rollinTHUNDER]

Matthew 24:3-22

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Hello Adstar,

First off, it would be important to understand the question. Which coming were they referring to?? This is key.

I would say that you are half right. And no, Jesus was no liar.

There are going to be two comings. One in the clouds (rapture), and the other to the earth (2nd coming). That's pretty easy to understand, so let's move on.

Next we must ask ourselves another question. Which of those two comings is going to have a sign?? One will happen like a thief in the night, unexpectedly. There will be no signs for the rapture. But the second coming will have signs before it takes place.

Matt. 24:29-31 - "Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give it's light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with great power and glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

Here we see the signs of the second coming. It is not as a thief in the night, but rather every eye will see Him coming. They are going to mourn when they see this. No believer is going to mourn when the Lord comes for them. But best of all, chech out verse 31 again. We will be coming with Him. Notice where the angel will get us from, from one end of the heavens to the other. Glory to God we will already be there!!!!!!!

This is a very complicated chapter and even some of the best christians trip right over it, so don't feel bad. With a little further and closer study, we can see who Jesus was talking about. He is clearly talking about those who live in Israel. He said to let those in Judea flee to the mountains. This is clearly talking about the Jews. And also, those who witness the abomination of desolation, this is also referring to the Jews in Israel. Surely you don't expect to run to the mountains from Judea do you?? Those that do run will be the remnant of Jews that God will spare, only one third of them will survive this dreadful event. He was clearly talking to the Jews that will witness those things. He wasn't talking about the christians. They didn't ask the right question for the christians, and Matt. 24 is mostly about the seven year tribulation.

Read Lukes version, because he has an escape clause in there. Luke 21:36 - "Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen and that you may stand before the Son of Man."

Rev. 3:10 - "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth."

Notice here that they won't just be kept from the trial, but rather, they will be kept from the [hour or time] of the trial, meaning that they won't be here during that time, mainly because the test is for the whole world, but the true believers are separated from the world. They are holy.

[Guest C.D. Light]

Adstar--Matthew 24 is speaking to Israel, not to the christian church. Notice that it says there "those who endure to the end, shall be saved".

This refers to Israel and the 144,ooo Jews as they run to Petra for shelter, and there God will protect them. (I understand that Petra is already being prepared to house and take care of their needs.)

These 144,000 will be the ones who will evangelize the earth after the true church of bornagain believers are raptured. Our tenure has expired then, and it is again up to these Jews to finish the job.

As is noted in scripture that the age of the church will expire when "the full number of the gentiles is reached" and that is when rapture will occur. We have no way of knowing when that full number is reached, so we dont know the exact date of the rapture.

Also as to the Elect. I would like to point out for clarification that as far as God is concerned  Israel is God's Chosen (or Elected).

Isiah 45:4  Israel, mine elect.

On the otherhand, the church, or the gentiles are grafted into the tree. We were an afterthought. We are adopted children, not elected.

I think this is where many get confused reading Matt 24--by the presumption that christians are the Elect, when in fact we are not.

For christians, we are "sealed to the day of redemption" versus for the Jews, who must "endure to the end".

The difference being for several reasons.

Jews are not saved at the time of rapture.

God still must keep his Abrahamic Covenant with them, therefore they must remain on earth as totally human in order for that Covenant to be kept.

They must fulfill their evangelistic duties during the Tribulation.

And lastly, they must remain here as fully human in order to populate the New Kingdom.

Christians on the otherhand, will return with Christ from the sky to help in setting up and running the New Kingdom.

(Im hoping he gives me Tennessee,  :thumb:   )

THIS is the most wonderful thought of it all: That by the time we return WE will get to help set up the WHOLE EARTH again ANEW, the way it should be, without politics, division, and decension.  

Who but God himself could have thought up such a complete and thorough plan for ridding the earth and society of ALL its ILLS. It is sooooooo perfect and the ONLY answer.

Hallalujah!

[Lorie Eikenbary]

:biggrin:That is one of the most awesome things I've ever heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1    

So, "by and large" ~ The christians...raptured.  The jews...stay here to fulfill the prophecy that God had originally planned for them.  After the tribulation...and the very last, ultimate battle, We return to the Earth to set up the "new Kingdom."  Then, does that mean we will have the 1000 year reign at that time?  The lion lays with the lamb?  The way it was suppose to be in the garden of Eden, before Adam and Eve sinned?  So......how does that go?....Do we know who each other are, and we are with the spouse we married to?  Children?  Does anyone know about this part of it?  (oops I think I'm on a whole different subject meant for a different thread! )   Anyway~  just some thoughts that I've been wondering since we have begun to move so closely to the rapture.   :thumb:     I am soooo excited to see my savior!!!!!  I pray that soon...I will get to meet you all in the only place with streets of gold!!!!!!!!

 

:inlove: @ His feet~  Lorie

[Guest okiejack]

""""""""""""There are going to be two comings. One in the clouds (rapture), and the other to the earth (2nd coming). That's pretty easy to understand, so let's move on."""""""""""

I'm a little slow so,

Could you please cite scripture that clearly states these two second comings?

"""""On the otherhand, the church, or the gentiles are grafted into the tree. We were an afterthought. We are adopted children, not elected.""""""

GOD had an "afterthought"? GOD planned everything before He created it? Each individual Christian was predestined to be saved before the universe was formed.

[Matthitjah]

Okay I'm Praying and reading Revelation12

Now The woman in child birth is Israel. She births Jesus

The Dragon trys to devour her Child but he is caught up unto G-d and to his throne.( Which is where he is right now.)

The Dragon is overcome by Michael and a host of loyal angels.

He is cast unto Earth wroth with anger against the woman.

Now for him to inhabit the A.C. there must first be an A.C.

I feel this man will already be in power then.

Now as to the true remnant of Israel they will be given wings and flown to safety for 42 months. (Second half of tribulation.)

As far as being grafted When you graft something you bind the two together making the new part continue to grow with the old as one.A new seperate single unit. Amen

Now the Dragon is really angry with the woman and goes to make war with the remnant of her seed.Which keep the commandments of G-d, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (or Gospel)Who is the womans seed? We were told earlier in the Chapter. Jesus Christ himself.

The Believers who are left after the first half of Tribulation will be the remnant of her seed.(JESUS)

Now back in Revelation 6:9-11 we learn of the souls of those slain for the Word. Crying out for vengence. They are told to wait a while longer for thier fellowservants and brethern who also will be killed as they were.(For the testimony of the Word.)

Now to Revelation 7The 144,000 are sealed then John sees a multitude which no man can number(not 144,000 he just numbered) of all nations, tongues, peoples and kindreds before the throne. Clothed in white robes and palms in hand.

One of the elders  admits to John "These are they which came out of great" tribulation", and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

So we see that we can not be raptured until these 144,000 are sealed.

I think I will study more to find out when these 144,000 will be sealed. I do notice though that the 2 witness come after that. It also must be at least halfway through tribulation Because, the vials of wrath have not been poured out yet.

Now I did look up the Elect in Eastons Bible Dictionary. It means not only Old Testament Patriarchs and Prophets called of G-d, but also those called of Grace and under grace and to salvation at the good pleasure of G-d. In other words The Elect are those called to salvation thru Grace.

[Matthitjah]

As far as being grafted When you graft something you bind the two together making the new part continue to grow with the old as one.A new seperate single unit. Amen

This should have been at the end of my last post.

Sorry it was just funky.When I went to post the Computer kind of just froze for a second . Must have messed up the post somehow.

Yours in Christ!